What if something causes a log to rot?

[stockhatch]

Im curious about what happens if for some reason a log rots out. Maybe a slow plumbing leak, or a roof drip that goes unseen long enough to damage a log. Is there any way to replace or otherwise fix a log in this situation, or is it one of those tear the house down and rebuild kind of things? 8)

[adubar]

Repairs due to rot in log homes is a common thing and part of restoring old structures.

To my mind the only time you would "rebuild a structure" is due to complete loss from fire. A well built log home should not come-apart like Lincoln logs!

(If you use the techniques that the LHBA advocates, log rot will not be something that becomes a concern--you just build to prevent or limit it).

-A

[stockhatch]

Ok. Sounds okay, but it doesnt seem like it would be easy to make a repair in a log that would offer the same structural integrity as the original log. This due mainly to the method of pinning/spiking/connecting the logs. Ill put it on my list of questions for the class.

[adubar]

stockhatch,

I think you may be reading too much into what 'structural integrity' means in certain aspects of a log home.

Think of the spaces made for windows. Usually they are cut out of the walls (some builders actually build theri walls around them, though).

Repairing rot is not much different in many respects to cutting out for and installing a window. The main "structural" concerns are how to keep the window from falling out once you've installed it (installation method), but the act of cutting does not degrade the wall itself and so that part of the structural consideration is much reduced.

As my comment stated, so long as you are not making a repair to a 'structural member,' meaning a member that is key to load bearing or some other function in the strucuture, repairs tend to be a matter of artfulness.



As with any structure, replacing or repairing load bearing structures is a matter that must be handled with good building/structural knowledge and the artful eye, but they can be done.

-A

[mtcates]

I would also like to know the answer to this question. Does anyone here have an idea on how to replace a log if needed be? Please explain in detail how the repair would be made. Richard Rock, Do you have any ideas???????

[stockhatch]

Well, I imagine if its a load bearing area, its gonna be pretty dang tough to do. Rebar will have to be cut, and some alternate support would have to be used until the section is replaced. Also, reintegrating the replacement log into the structure wont be as straightforward as the original construction for obvious reasons. This is why I am not convinced it is possible(using the tools at most peoples disposal) to complete a quality repair on a complete home. I guess the only options are to build roofs and plumbing that doesnt leak.

[adubar]

mtcates,


I can only speak from assisting with a repair on an older butt & pass home that had profiled logs and used spikes rather than rebar (not the LHBA preferred methods) and chinkless homes that I've seen with "patches."

In the case of the butt & pass home, the rotten section was removed and the free ends of the reamining parts of the logs were cut to create an edge like a half lap joint. The replacement piece was matched for size and likewise cut to fit into the laps. It in turn was "pinned" to the two ends and spiked obliquely into the logs above. As the house did not have that much in the way of chinking, the owner caulked around the area of repair and stained to make a close match.

I think as far as was able, the repair was not too distracting to the overall appearance of the strucutre, but it was noticable none the less.
Also, a repair like this I would think would only do for very small areas. If an entire course of logs is rotten, well, then I think that is where mr. engineer and the artist need to come in.



-A

[ribbonevt]

Im curious about what happens if for some reason a log rots out. Maybe a slow plumbing leak, or a roof drip that goes unseen long enough to damage a log. Is there any way to replace or otherwise fix a log in this situation, or is it one of those tear the house down and rebuild kind of things? 8)

One of the main things to consider is prevention of such rot, mainly a good roof and secondly the pre-treatment before building and periodic treatment of the logs. This will be a ways to prevent the rot in the first place even if they are subject to moister it will give you a more reasonable time frame to find a potential problem. And with a periodic treatment to the logs with ether a purchased product or a home made wood rot preservative/preventative you shouldn???t have a problem with rot. Here are some links below with info on products that you can purchase (not that I would endorse any brand over another) and some links that give info on the homebrewed methods. Another benefit of these treatments will be the deterrent for molds and the infestation of insects.


BORA-CARE AND BORACIDE
http://www.allpestpro.com/home.aspx?storename=allpestprofessionalproducts

TIMBORE AND BORRADA-D
http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/timbor.htm

Chemotherapy for Wood Rot
http://www.acbs-bslol.com/Gadgets/D97WoodRot.htm

Home-Brew Water Solution of Borates: and
The equivalent to BORA-CARE
http://alsnetbiz.com/homeimprovement/homemade.html


Hope this helps

[mtcates]

I'll agree that there are ways to lessen the chance of a total log failure from rot or insects but this was not the answer to his question. The guys question was "What happens if for some reason a log rots out". Does anyone here know the answer to this? Is it possible to replace a whole log in a home built this way? If anyone has any ideas, please list the steps involved.

[Squirt_TN]

IF YOU FOLLOW SKIP STYLE METHOD YOU WONT EVER HAVE TO REPLACE LOGS.
With that said,I live in a log cabin NOT like the Skip syle. I have replaced 3 different logs rangeing from 6-12', 8" "D" cut. What I did was first remove the deck boards and the dig a hole 24"x24"x24 and fill it w/ concrete. Then I made a metal "u" to go under the overdangle of the log above the one I was going to replace. Used 2, 25 ton jacks, one on each side of the log and then put jack pressure slighly on the log above. I then got a sawsall and cut the large nails that were holding it in place. I then found a "solid" part of the log and drilled a 3/3" hole through it and installed a eye bolt, hooked up tractor and drug log out. Getting the new one to fit was a measuring challenge. If there is a will, there is a way.

[adubar]

mtcates,

I believe the question was hypothetical and asked how to "fix" as well as replace a log--it was also very general in nature. A "rotted out" log is a relative term and each situation would be different on several levels (damage location, type of structure, method of construction, & etc.)

Now if you want a "step by step" answer, you would need to give details on a specific case. But, in the meantime, in general, you can repair a log structure and it is possible to replace a log.

The main question is when cost kicks the repair outside the range of maintenance into restoration (replacing a log would necessarily be in that category).

As a home owner, you want to avoid getting into the latter.

-A




-A

[mtcates]

I was just wanting to hear someone with the knowledge to answer this guys question because I would like to know the same thing also. Let me word it another way....... How would you deal with the load bearing rebar in the event of a total log replacement on an exterior wall? I'm sure that you would have to put a temporary load bearing device above the log you are going to replace. Then all the pieces of rebar would need to be cut. Then the bad log would need to be removed. My question is, how do you install the new log into the wall, in one piece, working around the temporary supports, to the same integrity the wall had when it was originally built. How do you reinatall the rebar. You can't drive it in place with a big hammer like you did when you built it. I realize some people will try to talk around these questions saying "this would never have to be done if you just follow skips method". I would just like an answer to the question as if it was just a modern engineering problem. I'm sure there is a way to do this and I have my own ideas of how to do it. I would just like to hear other ideas on how this can be done.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

My dad needed a log replaced on his cabin. It was a
buut & pass style, but the hillside sloughed-off and the
log sat in dirt for at least a decade. The cabin also had
inadequate eaves. Sounds like an impossible situation.
Wish I had been watching, the log was replaced in just
a few hours.

The cabin walls are butt & pass, but not much of what
Skip advocates was adhered to. If you build as taught
it should last for at least several hundred years.

IMHO 5' 11" eaves are a necessity.

-Rick

[Squirt_TN]

IMHO 5' 11" eaves are a necessity.



Please tell me about the strange measurement of 5' 11". For the life of me I can't figure this one out.

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Related to the IBC. The rules governing eaves change at 6'.
Been a long time since I looked it up, but staying under that
magic number helped to avoid headaches.

Richard? Do you recall this issue?

Small eaves are no good for keeping water and light off the logs.
I believe an eave longer than 6' is called a parapet. It hangs
too low to be considered an eave and is termed as a protective
wall. I'm shooting from the hip here. The IBC is at work and
I'm at home right now.

Of course there are also cantilever issues when the eaves get
too long. Longer eaves mean rafters with a larger section to
support the dead and live load. Also, a steep pitch and long eaves
can mean windows without views. You could end up looking out a
window to see a beautiful view of the underside of your roof.
Yeah, it's happened....

Used to design and draw the homes I and others built but that
was a looong time ago. Right now I just remember the rule, not
the "why" of the rule.

-Rick

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Guess I didn't do a good job answering the question.
My fault, I tend to leave a few blanks in my answers.

This is all I know:

I didn't watch the proceedure so a few critical points
may be missing here.

A. The walls are strong enough that a log could be missing.
Like Skip says; "A log house is so strong that you could
probably leave out every other log."
B. Sawzall out the rebar, chainsaw out the log.
C. Cut a new log and trim to fit.
D. Install the new log.
E. Drill and pin the new log in place.
F. Insulate, chink, and walk away.

Like I said, I didn't see the job done on the cabin, but what I
was thinking would be a job that would take a week or two
only took several hours. The log was a good match and it
looked like the cabin was originally built with the replacement
log. Blended in just fine. Also, this was the bottom log. This
might possibly be the worst log to replace.

From what I remember this was a total log replacement, not
just a chunk cut out of the log. Must have been young builders.
It would have taken me a few days just to get the log in place,
a few days of drinking coffee and thinking about how I would do
the job, a few days rubbing in the Ben-Gay, a few days at the
chiropractor, a few days....

-Rick

[mtcates]

rbuchanan......... The part that stumps me the most is how would you install the rebar every 24 inches to take the vertical load as it did when originally built. Are you saying that you could install a new replacement log in a home like this without the load bearing rebar? If not then how would you install the new load bearing rebar every 24 inches?

[Bronco]

I dont know why you can't just drill and jackkammer in the rebar then chink :?

[mtcates]

I dont know why you can't just drill and jackkammer in the rebar then chink :?..............How would you drill and install the new rebar vertically when the log above the one you are replacing is in the way?

[ChainsawGrandpa]

The rebar isn't really load bearing. The rebar can be pinned
at angles. No big deal really. The building is more than strong
enough to do without the log. All this is explained in the course.
It's all pretty simple.

[GT.]

http://www.pacificloghomes.net/log-replacing.html
http://www.pacificloghomes.net/main.html

[hawkiye]

Here is what I would do to replace a whole a log in a skip style home. Dependening on the length of the log you would cut a small section in the center and quarter marks on each side if the span was longer then 32 feet. Then brace the log above to the log below with some 4x10 or applicable size uprights. An alternative to this might be to use cable or chain from the RPSL to hold the center up. (I think the logs would stay in place even if you didn't brace it as long as the corners are braced)Then cut all the rebar and remove the log. The tricky part would be the corners. You could cut the overdangle off just past the corner on the outside and brace the log above again to the log below on both angles of overdangles to hold the corners. The butt end should be fine.

Match a new log and work into place. Yes you can drill and pound rebar in just like you did when you built, It would have to be on an angle. Not as easy but can be done and is done somewhat when placing girders. Reinsulate and rechink and your done.

[hawkiye]

A couple things to consider in a Skip style home are that a plumbing leak is an unlikely cause of log rot as the advice is to not have a log wall as a wet wall. The interior non-log walls are used for wet walls. Also the log walls are all exposed inside and out except maybe behind some kitchen cabinates so you would be more likely to see any potential problem areas before they develop into a serious problem.

I don't think it would be any harder or easier to have to replace a log in a Skip style home then any other log home in the unlikely event it did happen.