Almost ready to sign up, but I need more info

[stockhatch]

Ok, there are two things keeping me from signing up for the class right now.

1. Knowing I will be able to get good, graded (or at least gradeable) logs in the lengths I need.

2. Knowing that I will be able to get these logs at a reasonable price ~10K????( just tossing a number out )

If I was close to WA, I would be signed up and ready to go. If I went to the class and found out it isnt possible to get the logs in the length I need, I wouldnt have lost anything. Unfortunately, Im about as far away from WA as you can get without crossing water. This means about $800 in addition to the tuition that I am risking. I hope you all can appreciate my situation.

I have called every logger in the phone book, and they all laugh when I ask them if they sell logs. Who would have thought? All I am trying to do is see if the things can even be had. Is this the catch? Finding the actual logs to build with?

PS, please dont answer with "Trust me, you will find logs" Thats not an $800 answer. I need some help here. Im a very wary person.

Thoughts?

[rreidnauer]

Hardball questions . . . . . . . alright, I'll take a swing.

Question one, you may be happy to know the answer is YES. Without a doubt in my mind, you can get logs that meet your requirements for length and grade. No sweat, no problem. That's easy. Where you got to get those logs can be the bigger issue. I heard of logs getting brought in from far and wide sometimes. Jeff and Sara had theirs brought in from Canada to California mostly by railcar, and the rest of the way by truck. Don't give up on the loggers just yet. Without spilling too many beans about what the class teaches, try again with them, be persistant, even talk to the drivers. (IN PERSON whenever possible) Other opportunities come along every once in a while too. Just last week, I posted a message from the Philly Craigslist, of a person who has 3 acres of standing timber they want cleared. All free. Come and get it. There are more options, but I won't say anymore, else Ellsworth will beat me with a cold salmon.

But most of all, don't expect logs to just fall into your lap. If you want an inexpensive home, you're going to have to work for it. Get out there and find your prize!!!! They are out there. Personally, I'm looking for property that has the timber I need already on the property, at a decent price. Now there's a challenge, but it will be worth it.


Now for question two. I can say with little beyond a shadow of a doubt, it's a good, solid maybe. That can be a tough bill to fill. How good are you at negotiating, working out deals and trades? What will ultimately deterime that is YOU. If you got the drive and tenacity to find YOUR logs, it's possible. You got to want them, and you got to go get them. Someone says "No" to you, go find someone else. Greenbacks and no receipts can work wonders. But it is up to you. The class teaches you how to get them, but ultimately YOU must be the one who will not be denied. Only you can answer your own questions.

Now, how's that for a pep talk!

I'm beat.......

[ribbonevt]

Sitting on the fence, Ah

Yes you are right; the hardest thing for us to find was the logs. But we did. We tried the logging Companies, logging mills, loggers, and log truckers. You might want to look on yahoo yellow page and do a Google search in your area, just some ideas. We bought some land but it didn???t have soft wood pines on it, but we did hire a forest manager and he help us find some logs, we went to the national, state and county foresters, and that was the ticket for use. The county forester had given use a list of loggers to call and we called them all and one of them called use back with a very good price. And yes it was about 10k plus shipping/trucking for 100 logs or so. But 10k is a far cry from a 30 year mortgage. He was not the most timely individual but honest and a good man. OK, are you sure that you need to have you logs graded in your area? We didn???t have to. Have you equally checked into airline tickets, that seems a little high? I don???t know when you would like to fly or when the class is that you are looking at, but just with some random dates I am finding prices on orbits that are about $200.00 to $250.00 round trip. And you might spend another $200.00 or $300.00 on a room and car, probably less. We live in Vermont and we got two tickets from Hartford, CT a room at a Residents Inn and a car rental all for about $700.00. We also just found out that you might be able to get some good deals at the US Agricultural Dept. on tree logs. One of our friends got trees for firewood two years ago and they were full green trees at a low price. This might be something to check out.

Hope this sways you to our side of the fence.

[JeffandSara]

Stockhatch,

Getting logs is not the biggest hurdle in building a log house, the biggest hurdle is building a house. Anybody who has built a house owner/builder will tell you it is not an undertaking for the faint-of-heart. You are looking for all the answers and a guarantee, but nobody can give you a guarantee without knowing all of the parameters within which you are working.

Specifically, your first question about gradeable logs. All logs are gradeable, it is a question of whether your logs grade to your needs. Just a note, we live in southern California in the highest level seismic zone and we did not need to have our logs graded. I don't know where ribbonevt lives (Vermont?) but they didn't need to have their logs graded either.

Your second question. Getting logs for a reasonable price. My opinion, 10 thousand is on the cheaper side for logs depending on the volume of logs you will need. Reasonable is a term only you can define. I will say that you can get logs in lengths sufficient for your house. Because of your geographic location, transportation may be a bigger factor in your overall log cost than the actual cost of the trees.

Going to Skip's seminar is an investment. If you aren't willing to invest $800 plus tuition then maybe this isn't for you. I will say that using the information from the seminar we built our log house for easily less than 1/4 of what it would have cost to have it built by anybody else.

There it is, my $800 answer.

Jeff

[stockhatch]

Thanks for the replies :) Yes, I know the $800 is an investent, but only if it leads to building a house. I can appreciate where you all are coming from too though. The county inspector said specifically that the logs had to be graded. Im not worried about the actual building process, I can drill holes and pound rebar with the best of them. I also plan on renting/borrowing a boom truck or crane/forktruck or something. I know alot of people with heavy equipment so Im not to concerned with that either. I'll do some more digging.

PS, Jeff and Sara, do you happen to have some pics of your house? It is similar dimensionally to what I want and I am curious about how it looks.

Thanks

[stockhatch]

One other thing worries me about building. I read on another site that you should never exceed 20' wall spans unless you are using large, fully scribed logs. This puts a major kink in my floorplan :D There were pics posted of a wall bowing out under its own weight that scared me.

[stockhatch]

Also, the 10k was just a number. I think anything on up to 15-20k would be okay. After that, it starts getting into stickbuilt territory pricewise.

[ribbonevt]

One other thing worries me about building. I read on another site that you should never exceed 20' wall spans unless you are using large, fully scribed logs. This puts a major kink in my floorplan :D

Stockhatch

You will not have to worry about the height of the walls with Skip???s style of log home building. What you have read on other site will not apply to your log home built this way. Our log wall will be about 22 ft high.

[stockhatch]

I was referring to length actually. The height will probably be around 14 or 15'.

Thanks

[kyle]

Stockhatch,

I have to assume the site you read about the max 20ft wall length was referring to a kit log home. There are no similarities to the way the kit homes are built and the way LHBA teaches its students to build a log home. To further support this lets look at it this way, the kit homes use long thin screws to anchor the logs. LHBA teaches a lot better way to hold the logs and trust me on this, your wall won't bow.

As for Jeff and Sara's home. I've been fortunate to see some pics and its beautiful. And BIG! My guess is around 37x37 or something close.

I think just about everyone has been like you and had reservations about taking the class and with all the scams out there today its totally understood. I was hesitant but I'm going to say this, even if you go and don't build a log home there are things that you can learn from this class that can be applied to building a stick built home. I was getting ready to start looking to build a kit home and stumbling across this class was one of the best things that could have happened to me. I figure I will spend at the most 1/2 of what it would have cost me otherwise. And if I decide not to go with a lot of extras (jacquzzi, granite counters, etc) then that figure will be closer to 1/3 of the cost of building a small kit log home.

[stockhatch]

Cool. Thanks for that information. As far as the 20' bit. That was from a thread on LHOTI(please dont shoot me), and it was referring to handcrafted, full scribe homes. There were a couple builders on there who said they had no problem with 40' lengths provided the logs are large, and fully scribed. Anywho, its no biggie. Ill take your word for it that 40' spans are fine. :)

[ribbonevt]

Skips wall use 50+' logs, I am using 35+' logs and most homes here are 30' wall and now even 40+' average.

[stockhatch]

Cool.

[greenthumb]

As for Jeff and Sara's home. I've been fortunate to see some pics and its beautiful. And BIG! My guess is around 37x37 or something close.


You lucky dog! I'm jealous, I'd like to see pics of their home since I keep hearing so much about it. The only one I've seen is in this thread and its just a teaser. Beautiful floors....

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=3507&highlight=#3507


Stockhatch,

Does your inspector have a written code he can point to on the grading issue?

[adubar]

stockhatch,

You should consider that you will take away far more than just how to build a solid log home from the class. You will learn things that you can apply to almost any endeavor you undertake.

One thing I will caution you against is "fixing" a log price in your head. You will ultimately be bound for disappointment if you do. To purchase logs you must first understand your local market and timber availability along with the various ways that logs can be sourced. Also, logs are not the only cost that you must consider when building.


Things like the roof system (which tends to be one of the most expensive parts of any home building project) can be undertaken at a great costs savings if you are willing to look for bargains, shop around and put in some sweat equity time--most of all, by not taking the route that keeps to the "status quo."

Remember, the reason why a stick built or commercially built log home costs as much as they do is that you are paying for the luxury of someone else thinking for you and doing the work--and their views on what THAT is worth (get a pushy realtor involved and the price can double!!!).


-A

[kyle]

Ill take your word for it that 40' spans are fine. :)

Stockhatch, I'm not saying that a 40' long wall is ok with any other building technique, in fact I'd be leary of it. But with the butt and pass method that LHBA teaches its not a problem.

[Mark OBrien]

Ok, there are two things keeping me from signing up for the class right now.

1. Knowing I will be able to get good, graded (or at least gradeable) logs in the lengths I need.

2. Knowing that I will be able to get these logs at a reasonable price ~10K????( just tossing a number out )

If I was close to WA, I would be signed up and ready to go. If I went to the class and found out it isnt possible to get the logs in the length I need, I wouldnt have lost anything. Unfortunately, Im about as far away from WA as you can get without crossing water. This means about $800 in addition to the tuition that I am risking. I hope you all can appreciate my situation.

I have called every logger in the phone book, and they all laugh when I ask them if they sell logs. Who would have thought? All I am trying to do is see if the things can even be had. Is this the catch? Finding the actual logs to build with?

PS, please dont answer with "Trust me, you will find logs" Thats not an $800 answer. I need some help here. Im a very wary person.

Thoughts?

Where you live in Leland is about 360 miles from Asheville, NC which is close to many logging companies and mills. The loggers in your area mostly haul for pulp and paper mills. Make some calls out that way. Transporting from Western NC or E. TN won't be that terrible. Many of the kit home builders get their logs from that region. As far as grading logs, absolutely check to see if it is part of the county's code or is this guy intrepreting it his way. Always be respectful when dealing with inspectors or they will make you jump through very fiery hoops! They can't help it, it's just their nature. Power currupts. Plan in advance for a class and your airline tickets won't be that expensive. I flew from Daytona Beach, FL to take the class 2 years ago and my ticket was $320.00. Go to the class without any preconceived notions and with an extremely open mind and you will come away amazed at the prospects for a beautiful home at a very inexpensive price compared to paying someone else to do it for you and then paying the bank for the privilege of paying the contractor.

[stockhatch]

Thanks for the advice. I have a couple leads on possible log sources thanks to the local cooperative extension. I work for the county, so government contacts are pretty plentiful. I think I will find plenty of information, and as soon as I find a repuable source for logs, I plan on booking the class.

[damon]

You should check out http://www.jetblue.com, they fly out of Raleigh which isn't that far from Wilmington. They fly to Seattle and it seems the average price is around $149.

Also, I'm near Charlotte, NC so if you find any great deals on logs or any other materials let me know...and I'll do the same.

[dbtoo]

Ok, there are two things keeping me from signing up for the class right now.

1. Knowing I will be able to get good, graded (or at least gradeable) logs in the lengths I need.



Google it man, gooooogle - "timber sales" " North Carolina"

http://www.monroetimberland.com/page/timbersales

Try the cooperative extension.

[rustbucketbingo]

There's always ebay. (Though these are shorties)

Clickity (http://cgi.ebay.com/Log-Home-Pine-Logs-REDUCED-PRICE_W0QQitemZ140047655796QQihZ004QQcategoryZ5814 8QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

200 Logs. Yep.

[KeithMN]

stockhatch, I haven't taken the class yet (just under two weeks away, though!) but I just wanted to make one observation about your posts.

You've said a few times, "I read on another site" or "I heard" etc., Now, I don't know your background, but it seems like you're trying to amass information on how to do this from several different sources and in bits in pieces. That doesn't sound like the best way to be going about getting the information to build a log home.

I understand you're cautious and that you want to make sure you're getting the most bang for your buck. I'm that way, too. (I may work at the Federal Reserve but I don't get to take home very much of our product!) But I know from experience that if I'm going to do something like this, I need to research it thoroughly and pick the one source that I trust. I didn't want to hear one thing from one source and have another source say, "Yeah, well, you don't have to do that if you do this..." Only confusion can follow. I checked out a few schools and compared their methods, checked into their testimonies and their complaints (based on who actually built and who didn't). I checked their reputations and made my decision.

My personal findings were that LHBA (this school) blew the competition away in every category; price, method, reputation and testimonials. These guys are an open book. Lifetime membership, advice and member gatherings included. This, to me, is more like a family, not a business out to make a buck. Did any of the other sources you checked out try to show you how to build your log home mortgage-free or as inexpensively as possible? The men at LHBA could make money hand-over-fist by building the homes they teach in their sleep and turning them around to make a nice profit. But they want to help others be free from mortgage slavery. That's integrity.

I'm not even trying to plug LHBA by saying all that. I'm just saying that this was my answer based on research. I don't have any building or construction experience, no tools, no land, no heavy equipment and no help and no money to start! But, what I do have is a very strong desire, patience and the confidence that I can do this based only on what I've learned so far from this website and from the good people on these forums.

You said it would be worth it if a home were eventually built from it. But that's the part depends on you. (And the rest of us.) As far as an LHBA class goes, there isn't any risk because they have a money back guarantee - even three months after you're done with the class! No hidden cancellation fees or anything like that. Just simple, old-fashioned, honorable business done on a handshake. (This is more of that integrity I mentioned earlier.)

I hope this post came across as it was intended to; as an observation, not a judgment. My purpose wasn't to be mean or rude in any way. :) I apologize in advance if it comes across that way.

[stockhatch]

Not at all. I see exactly where you are coming from and appreciate the post. Let me first say that I am a very stubborn person. Pair that with being rediculously leery of anything that seems too good to be true, and you have somebody who needs to be convinced that it is legit before they jump.

I read lots of things from lots of places, and I think a person is wise to consult as many knowledgable folks as they can when researching an undertaking of this magnitude. I ask all these questions and look for specific answers because I like to have all my facts straight before I make decisions.

I absolutely believe that this building style and approach work well for many people. I have no doubt about that. There are enough people praising it, and a few people who actually have homes to prove it. My concern is that this will work for me in regards to my specific floor plan, my local government restrictions, and the suppliers available. In short, I dont doubt it works, but will it work for ME?


You have to admit, when you walk up to somebody and tell them, hey, I can teach you in two days how to get out from under your mortgage, and build a home worth a hundred thousand dollars. The person is going to look at you like youre crazy, and then they might check to be sure you havnet lifted their wallet while they werent looking. Im that guy checking his pocket. Im not big on faith anymore. Been burned too many times.

I will probaly take the class, I just feel the need to find a source for logs first. It will make me feel better if nothing else.

Im not trying to be a jerk here. I just guard my money with the tenacity of a rabid monkey.

[dbtoo]

Must I repeat myself....

Start here:
http://www.ncforestry.org/docs/Logging%20and%20Transportation/loggingpageindex.htm

And don't give up until you have spoken to each person on this list:
http://www.dfr.state.nc.us/publications/bg_by_county.PDF
and this list (some of them may be the same companies):
http://www.ncforestry.org/PROLOGGERLISTS/ProLogger%20March%202006%20Graduates.pdf

(You are from North Carolina, right? Or am I searching the wrong info? I wish my state had as much information available as some of the others in this nation!)

If you really have the tenacity of a rabid monkey, then the course is for you. It has a money back guarentee. The log bug will bite. You will not rest until you have succeeded. AND using ones money wisely is stressed repeatedly as you should tell from many of the articles on their website. So don't be a chicken, I mean, rabid monkey! It was the best money I ever spent on a class, and that includes my Bachelors degree!

[damon]

I will forever bow down to you dbtoo. I'm in North Carolina also and that will help me out tremendously.

[dbtoo]

I will forever bow down to you dbtoo. I'm in North Carolina also and that will help me out tremendously. :oops: Aw shucks.

[adubar]

stockhatch, good luck on your log sourcing adventure. If you do come up with some, please post them here.



One thing I can guarantee you is that once you've taken the class you will "revisit" the process you used or will use in the near term.



I've been given the same stare of disbelief when I've told college students that there is one single class, above all others, that will help them more than any other at the college level.



When I tell them that after successfully completing one quarter or semester of this class you will always write a top notch paper and get nothing less than an "A" regardless of your major (given that you actually apply yourself to study the topics), the disbelief turns to distrust.



Since the class is not mandatory at most universities, students seldom take it. The difference between taking the class and not is four years of struggling with writing papers or four years of learning. Most students make the wrong choice.



This particular university class does not write papers for you and it's not even in the English department. What it does show you is how to go about thinking like a person that writes great papers.



I won't put the name of the university level class here, as many reading it will disbelieve it. It is enough to say that everyone that completes it successfully will say that it changed their life.



I had a good professor who once remarked that each succeeding generation of students trusts him/herself less. I think we can say the same thing about society in general.



The LHBA class brings you back to the world of self-reliance and ultimately trusting yourself. Truth has a way of doing that, simply. -A

[mlr1968]

Stockhatch, I read your posts and I felt the same as you did.



It was almost a year after I found the LHBA that I spent the Federal Reserve Notes on this class. It was by far the best investement I could have made.