Log vs timberframe for 1st build in NH

[docrob]

Needing to decide re' Log vs timberframe construction, and choose the right course(s); not having built before.

Plot is 12 acres sloping and mixed gradient with half mixed woodland inc' granite shelf in as yet undefined areas; hopefully enough sites for 3 houses... one every few years ..to redress middle age poverty and spiritual deprivation from too many years paying interest and devoted to other peoples children!
2 of the houses would be set back from road 300 yards up a winding track/cinder road in woodland clearing(s).
Re' a log build, I read somewhere on here that, at least with Skips method, a lot of cash can be saved since foundations are cheaper and more doable oneself. This might be relevant given that I don't know what's under soil level.
Any advice gratefully received!

[RockEngineer]

Timber frame will definitely take the most skill and in my opinion by far the highest cost. They are beautiful though.

The butt and pass methods taught by the LHBA class can be done with raw logs and a minimal amount of skill. It is labor intensive in some aspects but can result in a beautiful home with a minimal amount of cash outlay and lots of sweat equity.

[docrob]

wow! Thanks Richard for posting such a perfect concise reply!
...and just what I wanted to hear!

[rreidnauer]

If you're really torn which way you want to go, how about considering both?

Log walls with timber-framed girders, purlins, ridgepole, and vertical supports.

[docrob]

I've enjoyed plenty of your posts Mr Lateral thinker! Thanks for yor reply!
Can I tempt you to mention what you see as the pros of such a hybrid build; given my lack of skill,.. but flexibility, well connected neurones and adequate brawn!

[rreidnauer]

I've enjoyed plenty of your posts Mr Lateral thinker! Thanks for yor reply!
Can I tempt you to mention what you see as the pros of such a hybrid build; given my lack of skill,.. but flexibility, well connected neurones and adequate brawn!

:lol: Well, the pros are a bit limited, but I guess they would include:
[list]1. your preferance of the athetic value of timber framing
2. the ease of dealing with dimensionally consistant materials[/list:u]The cons might include the additional education required of timber-framing, and the added time of preparing the connections.

I was given the book, Cabin Fever for a birthday gift, which has many interior design ideas. They show some photos of beautiful log homes and timber-framed interiors. It's a great book to get some ideas from. It's available at http://www.amazon.com/Cabin-Fever-Rachel-Carley/dp/0684844222/sr=1-1/qid=1161362059/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-3865538-3819003?ie=UTF8&s=books

The Rustic Cabin looks like another one that I'm going to have to get too! :D http://www.amazon.com/Rustic-Cabin-Ralph-Kylloe/dp/1586853112/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b/103-3865538-3819003?ie=UTF8

[docrob]

Any other texts worth having for my 2 -3 yr lead time?!
I'm actually still stuck in a uk teaching job at the monent;every dream helps!

[adubar]

Hello docrob,

I'm not going to post a long list of books that may or may not be handy to you, but I'll outlined what I've found in my own searches.

There are a plethora of books from the late 19th early 20th century that cover building techniques that are currently used and many more that have been "lost" to the building industry today. These can give you a very good historical view (by the way, the LHBA brings allot of this information back into our time). Authors that you can look for are Nessmuk (Sears the author, not the department store), Buzzacott, Seton, the U.S. forestry service and many others that wrote in a time were conservation and getting back to woodcrafts was a strong social movement.

For modern chinkless "professional" log building there is the obligatory Bob Mackie (sp?), which gives you a good overview of the "Canadian style" of chinckless building. Authors like Mackie do raise some questions about the "integrity" of many chinkless methods employed by professional builders to save on time, however they tend to be lacking in historical perspective.


Modern timberframing books are mainly the result of building code considerations and professional best practices. This should be taken into consideration as well, for in many respects the cart can be placed before the horse with certain "solutions."
For histrocial perspectives on timber frame consturciton, Roy Underhill (of the PBS TV series fame) has collaborated with other authors in the past to document historical practices. However, in books like these the reader is reminded to be cautious as many of the practices outlined were employed when there were no "building inspectors" and logs with 30' diameters and old growth for that matter were common.

As you are in the UK, there are quite a few publications on timberframing reference due to the nature of historical (really, maintenance) timberframe buildings. You should be able to find a local business or organization that is involved in this building technique.

In my time there I was lucky enough to meet a man that specialized in slate roofs. He worked with another guy who did thatched roofs (I met both of them as they were contracted for maintenance on my friend's family home--in the UK, historical methods must be used and unfortunately, their home was first built in the 14th century with later additions each century--hence the mix of roof systems--very expensive to maintain).

Good luck!

A

[docrob]

(Thanks Adubar; helpful).

Does anyone know what the likelyhood is of applications being rejected?
I'm wanting to build just outside Andover, NH.
I read somewhere that builders are advised to "accidentally" include evidence that the plans have been approved elsewhere, e.g. other states. That makes me wonder if people often face an uphill struggle to get permission to build using butt and pass.

[adubar]

docrob,

All in all, you would do well to research building codes and practices in the location you want to build. It would be helpful to have a local engineer take a look at your plans (get them to stamp them if you can), rather than one from the "big city."

Probably the best strategy is to treat the building dept. /inspectors as allies rather than as adversaries. Good will can get you a long way.

As a matter of course, I believe any person that wants to build any type of structure has an uphill struggle. Everything from realestate to the building trades are geared for professional mutual benefit and the little guy tends to be marginalized. So, just be prepared to work harder for what you want.


-A

[akemt]

I think that even if you decide on stick-built, the class will be worth it. It'll give you valuable info and the foundation section was definately worth it for us. I wish we'd taken the class PRIOR to adding on to our house (stick-built) and paying a large price for someone else to do the foundation work. Ah well...not again! I too would lean log home, but which you use in the end all depends on you, your preferences, and your circumstances.

Best of luck!

[thepizzaguy]

Last spring I helped build a new garage. It's a small barn with gambrel roof. I took notes, and asked questions. This is why I became interested in building my own home. It was a lot of fun, and not too difficult.

If you can opperate a framing square and hammer, it really shouldn;t be a problem. But I'm saying this because I helped build a two car garage. You can learn about a timber structure and how they are put together just by inspecting you're own garage.

The hardest part was trying to understand the roof truss for the gambrel roof. It's very simple, but standing alone the truss it self looks unstable and unsafe, and I would have spent a few bucks more for the metal brackets to secure the 2 pieces instead of using odd blocks of wood as the contractor did. But that's just me.

Once the are nailed to the ridge beam and side walls they are nice and strong. Still I am looking at a different truss structure for my plans, so I may have to pay big time to ensure that they are safe and up to code.

[rreidnauer]

I think you might be misinterpreting the term "Timber framing" William. Also known as Post & Beam, it's a style of connecting large dimensional lumber together using mortise and tenon connections. (and often secured with a wood pin) It is a common construction technique of some European homes and Amish built barns. It takes a bit of skill to do it right, (especially when getting into the braces) but it's really an impressive style of construction, worthy of being exposed for everyone to see.

[RockEngineer]

Does anyone know what the likelyhood is of applications being rejected?
I'm wanting to build just outside Andover, NH.

Getting through the building code review is where a good knowledgable engineer comes in. He provides the numbers and the certification to show that the structure is stable and will stand up to the required design loads. When the building departments start questioning whether structures I have engineered are really sound, I can discuss what is good and bad about this method and others and how the loads are transferred safely through the structure. The LHBA was organized over 40 years ago and there have been hundreds of butt and pass log homes built all over the world using their methods. Knowledge is a hard thing to stand up against when a building official tries to discount something he does not understand. :lol: :oops: I have never had a building rejected for permit that I engineered. I have had many building officials asks questions and try to buffalo the builder or bully them into doing something different but you just smile and show them the error of their ways with logic and factual data. They can make you do things like get your logs graded but if your structure is sound they can't force you to do it differently. :lol:

[kyle]

William,

This is how a timber framed home is framed:

http://www.nwjoinery.com/gallery/i_luhr.htm

[thepizzaguy]

Looking at the picture, I would say so. Looking at the studs throughout my house, it's all 16" on center using 2x6's. The garage is 2x4, but is also 16" on center.

I guess I don't know the term for "normal", or "average" home construction technique. I've only been a part of the construction process of my mom's new garage and it was framed using timber/lumber.

I'm not a rich guy yet, and I need to plan my retirement, and if it's possible to get what I want at the right price, building a home is something I would like to do. If not, I've got an RV/camper I can move right in with little or no cost.

It's all about finding happinees again for me at this point.

Thanks for the info!

William