Another new guy

[KeithMN]

Hi all,

My name is Keith and I currently live in Minneapolis, MN. Being a country kid, this isn't ideal for me. I've lived in Germany, Italy, Ireland, Czech Republic, Africa and the West Indies, (I'm 40.) So, I'm used to change. On my way home from living in Ireland, I was robbed and ended up starting life over with only $20. Having no family, I stayed with a friend of mine in Minneapolis to get back on my feet. That was five years ago. I have my own apartment and a good job, but if I sign one more lease on an apartment, I'm going to throw-up. Initially, I was on my way to the Seattle area before I was robbed in Ireland. I would like to live in the Washington countryside, provided I could make a living there.

I started looking into buying a home, but the thought of going $300,000 for the home NOT of my dreams makes me even more sick. I did an internet search for log cabin kits and the first article I found was this one on why NOT to buy one. I devoured the website and plan to send an e-mail to the site owner with a few specific questions, but I wanted to get your opinion on my situation. I apologize if this is already too long. :oops:

My current apartment lease is up in seven month (at the end of April.) I would ideally like to have my own place by then. I even took a class on how to buy foreclosed homes (what a nightmare!) and live in it for the two years the site recommends taking before building your log cabin. Then I would sell the house and move into my cabin. I just don't know if it would be worth doing that. Any suggestions? Is it really a two year planning stage before you should begin building your log cabin? Perhaps I misunderstood? Naturally, not having taken the course yet, I would like your initial input to help make the decision. I'm planning to take the course in November. Just have to take a couple of days off work.

Any advice or words of encouragement would be greatly appreciated. I'm looking forward to getting to know people here and having the forums be a part of my process in building a modest little cabin for myself. :)

PS... Not many of my posts will be so long. I just thought a little background on where I'm at might help in getting some input.

[rreidnauer]

First, welcome aboard Keith.

Now, as for the time to start subject. Two years is a pretty good average. Sure, you could get things going faster than that. It's just a general observation that seems to work for most folks. I find myself now 1 1/2 years since taking the class and still haven't gotten around to acquiring land yet. Liquidating the last of my unnessecary assets for cash that will be required has been my biggest stumbling block so far. (my plan is focused on a true 'no loans' intent) But, it's actually worked out really well for formulating my plans, dreams, and intentions. It's given me the time to gather many tools that will be needed, for really great prices. (you find much better deals when you're buying when you don't absolutely need it right now) I've had the time to plan out how I'll be addressing my utilities. I've had time to design my home. I've had time to finish paying off the last of my loans. (I'm debt free now!)

Anyhow, I guess what I'm saying is, two years goes by really fast. You being 40, you know how the years go by faster and faster. :wink: Those planning a faster start will often find that those two years went by before they knew it.

As for getting a forclosed home, IMHO, I say don't do it unless you can forsee profitting on it on a quick flip. You don't want to be dividing your attention between fixing a foreclosed home and building a log home. Driving between the two will also hinder progress of your log home. No, the best solution I believe is to move onto the property you're building the log home on, and get a mobile home or trailer to live in while building. And don't get some fancy thing either. A less than wonderful trailer can be a great incentive to finish that log home and get the heck out of that dang trailer. Being directly on the building site will also increase your working time, insteaded of commuting back and forth.

Read on in the forums, and you'll see that Chadfortman has done this, since March, and took it to the extreme. He doesn't even have a trailer. I think he was using some sort of Rubbermaid shed, but plans on a more robust wood shed to handle the Winter a bit better. I already have a trailer, and will be calling it home during my construction. And once I'm done, I plan to strip the trailer down to it's frame and build a portable saw mill upon it. Nothing goes to waste.

(geez, now look who's getting long winded)

[KeithMN]

Thanks for the welcome, Red, and for the advice.

The more I think about it, the more I'm determined to build my cabin and do it the right way. I fully intend to do it Skip's way, with no shortcuts.

As for the foreclosed home, I pretty much think I've decided against it. Too many chances I'm not willing to take. If I could find a good purchase on a tax lien, I might consider that. It would be nice to have somewhere to store the things I collect for my cabin without having to pay storage fees.

I'm one of those people who would like to have my log cabin somewhere where you can't see any freeways or "civilization." Until I started reading these boards, I hadn't considered solar panels, etc., Now I want to make my cabin as self-sufficient as possible. I believe people still need each other though. We weren't created to do everything alone and apart from everyone, so there's that to consider, too.

Right now, patience is my biggest challenge, but I'll pass that test. Did you build the model of your cabin out of dowels, like I read about on the site? I haven't seen anyone talk about the models they built.

[JeffandSara]

Welcome, Keith! and good luck on this new phase of your life. Seems like it's all been quite a ride thus far.

Rod built a fabulous model which you can see if you follow the link in his signature file, as I recall.

My husband and I looked at foreclosed property in the past, and opted not to go that way. Real estate comes with enough "baggage" in the best of circumstances. And remember that if you end up having to sign a lease again for a while while building, it's not the end of the world. We rented for a year and a half while building, and then moved our family of four (plus large dog) into our 25 foot 1970 motorhome for the next 2 1/2 It was luxury compared to Chad Fortman's shed... but it was a choice we had to make out of determination and commitment to the project.

We've been living in our house a year and a half now, and we bless the day we heard about and then met Skip, and we're thrilled that Ellsworth and Steve have done such a superb job in his place since he's retired. The class is fabulous, Keith, and so is Skip's house. Again, good luck to you!

Sara :D

[KeithMN]

Thanks, Sara, for the encouragement.

I took a look at Rod's pictures again and have to laugh. I didn't see the caption (and obviously breezed through the pictures too quickly) and thought that was a full-sized house! LOL Tricks with camera angles, I guess! Great idea though to get a better idea of scale. It fooled me.

I know I'm in the right place to learn. Living in the city, you find people in a rush all the time. And they aren't always very nice about it. My lifestyle is very laid back, casual and I'm a great believer in kindness. I'm touched by the kindness and helpful people I've been seeing on this board.

Not having any construction, plumbing or electrical experience, I'm amazed at reading that I can build a log home by myself. (I'm sure the class will give me the confidence, though.) Having lived overseas so much, as well as around the U.S., I don't really have many long-term friends to help out in any way. But I've never been more determined to do anything in my life. I need this.

Believe me, when (not if) I accomplish this, it will be the biggest success story for LHBA! If I can do this, anyone can. I only wish the class were longer than two days. They are going to fly by much too quickly.

Thanks again, Sara!

[KeithMN]

Sorry for the typo on your name, Rod (Red). :oops:

[LoggerDon]

Hey Keith,

Congratulations on discovering the site. It sounds like you've got logs on the brain. My advice is to take the time to read the entire site and I think you'll begin to get a pretty good feel for the whole process and for the mindset of the members.

My wife and I took the class Sept 9 & 10. She was a bit of a skeptic but is now a covert like me. One of the factors that sold me on the class was the postive and helpful attitude of members like Rod, Sarah & Jeff. I think you'll find many others like them on this site. I hope to lean on them for knowledge and encouragement when I begin to build.

Like you, I feel my back is a bit against the wall. I simply refuse to sign a 30 yr mortgage for a cookie cutter house somewhere. Skip says on the site (I'm paraphrasing) "why not work hard for two years and build your own home rather than spending the next 30 a slave to a mortgage".

We have our piece of land and I'm not going to wait two years to build. My goal is to move into my own log home next summer. I'm not sure how realistic this is but that's what I'm shooting for. I also want to lift all my logs by hand and cut my own lumber on site. I think about building all the time and it give me great pleasure.

In my opinion, the class is the real thing. I have no real building experience, and it seems ridiculous to think you can learn to build a house in 2 days, but I feel confident I can. I think you'll feel the same way if you take the class.

Good luck to you and welcome aboard.

[rreidnauer]

Sorry for the typo on your name, Rod (Red). :oops:

No problem Keith, I'll answer to about anything. Just don't call me 'late for dinner'.

[KeithMN]

Congratulations on discovering the site. It sounds like you've got logs on the brain.
Like a rabid woodpecker, Don. Thankfully, I don't appear to be alone by the looks of this site.


My advice is to take the time to read the entire site and I think you'll begin to get a pretty good feel for the whole process and for the mindset of the members.
Site = Devoured
Process = Absorbing
Members = Looking as forward to getting to know as I am with building my log home. One of my great appreciations in this world is good, like-minded folk who live with integrity and kindness. I'm seeing that here and that's just as exciting to me as logs are.


Like you, I feel my back is a bit against the wall. I simply refuse to sign a 30 yr mortgage for a cookie cutter house somewhere. Skip says on the site (I'm paraphrasing) "why not work hard for two years and build your own home rather than spending the next 30 a slave to a mortgage".
You know, I look at the world today and feel displaced. Like I was supposed to be born in the 1880's. I don't relate to all the hate, violence, pettiness, me-me-me attitudes while stomping on other people to get what you want. I turned my TV off for good just over two years ago because I got tired of the so-called "entertainment." It's voyeurism and people getting their entertainment from other people's pain. Since then, I've noticed the effects of the media and advertising have worn off of me. My sense of wonder at life's little things is back. So is the sense of sadness at someone's misfortune and horror at the violence.

I'm all for quiet, peaceful living and helping others. Sometimes I think the Amish have it pretty good! Community-minded, helping where there's a need. No way am I buying into a 30 year mortgage. I'll build an igloo in Alaska first.


We have our piece of land and I'm not going to wait two years to build. My goal is to move into my own log home next summer. I'm not sure how realistic this is but that's what I'm shooting for. I also want to lift all my logs by hand and cut my own lumber on site. I think about building all the time and it give me great pleasure.
Sometimes I think there isn't any decent land available anymore. Everything seems to be so over-developed. But that tells me that I've been in cities far too long. They have their place but I'm over it. I'll be interested in learning Skip's methods on ways to get cheap or free land. I know he's not saying everyone can succeed at it and that they're just possibilities, but my life has always been such that, if it's remotely possible, I'll do it.


In my opinion, the class is the real thing. I have no real building experience, and it seems ridiculous to think you can learn to build a house in 2 days, but I feel confident I can. I think you'll feel the same way if you take the class.
I have no doubts that the class is the real thing. As a matter of fact, I tried to think of some questions to ask before I register, but I can't think of a single one that won't be answered in the class. The site answers them all. The forums speak for its integrity.


Good luck to you and welcome aboard.
Thanks Don. Looking forward to getting to know you and the other good folks here.

[Jordan Laube]

Keith -
Howdy neighbor (sort of) - I just recently moved from Burnsville to the Netherlands. I wish you would have posted earlier because my wife thinks I am nuts because all I want to talk about is building a log home...

It appears that you have been welcomed to the group and decided that you will be attending a weekend seminar - congratulations! Ellsworth and Steve are very knowledable and will fully answer all of your questions while maintaining a fun and entertaining environment...

The seminar will give you all the information and confidence to build a cabin / home. IMO, a major key is to keep chipping away and not let the people that think you are crazy wear you down...

Shoot me an email - listed in my personal information - I would love to get together when I will be in town around Christmas / New Years.
J-

PS - How about those Twins!!!

[KeithMN]

Hey Jordan!

I used to live in Burnsville for awhile myself. I can't remember the name of the apartments, but they were directly behind the Home Depot on Cty Rd 13. (grunt!)

I'm jealous that you're in the Netherlands. I loved living overseas. The hardest thing I ever did was move back to the states.

I told my boss about the class and she said there is a guy that works upstairs that built his own log cabin. He took a class here in MN from the Great Lakes School of Log Building by Isabelle, MN. I haven't talked to him yet but will definitely do it. I'm excited about taking LHBA classes though. And nobody could possibly wear me down on my dreams. I did more with my life by the time I was 27 than most people do in their whole lifetime. People who try to talk you out of your dreams are people who have given up on their own and are trying to justify it and feel better about themselves by dragging you down with them.

Definitely let me know when you're in town. I live in the downtown area right now. (Scarey, huh? A country kid in the city isn't pretty.) I'll e-mail you my contact info.

Thanks for chiming in! Look forward to talking with you more!

[ChainsawGrandpa]

Hi Keith,

Prices vary where I'm at but you can still get 20 acres for $45,000
or so. A nice $3,000 26' trailer is comfortable enough to live in on
site while you're building. I went overboard. I'm spending about
$12,000 for an 830' storage building (hardwood floors, indirect LED
lighting, waterfall (yes, really), glass block interior wall, radiant floor
heating, mullioned windows, coffered ceilings, tile entry with a barrel
ceiling, on and on....
A $7,500 building but
I ran out of materials and time. I also went a little nuts on amenities,
shh...it's a STORAGE BUILDING :wink: ). Be prepped to build. Have your
mill, insulation, fixtures, etc. ready. It will save you thousands. I was
ready to build, but not fully ready. I'm now compensating dollars for
time and preparedness.
My five acres was $26,000, and is a high demand property. The 20
acres is $75,000. Both are incredible deals, but there are still plenty
of good deals out there. You can spend less but I have prime property.
When you come out to take the class you can drop by and shop around
If you have the time. Hey, you can even stay in my "storage shed" :wink: .
-Rick

[JeffandSara]

Hello, again, Keith--

I know what you mean about city life and modern culture. Jeff and I agree. Knowing Skip, Ellsworth and Steve has been about log home building...but it's also been about an old-fashioned appreciation for "good people". You're meeting some good people here on the forums. You're gonna like Ellsworth and Steve. They're the genuine article, just like the techniques taught in the class.

Most people who have built or are building haven't had an "easy" time of it. We certainly didn't by any stretch of the imagination. But it's a good dream, and a potentially realistic one, as long as you have fortitude, forethought, adaptability and good common sense.....


... and you don't spend too much time in the kitchen during classtime! :wink: :lol:

Best-- Sara :D

[KeithMN]

Rick, Sounds like you've got a nice, modest, humble little operation going there! :lol: I'm glad you were able to get the deal you did on the land. It sounds like spending a night in your shed would be a true pioneer experience! 8)

Sara, The folks I've run into in these forums have been like a breath of fresh air. When you are subjected to city living for so long, you can forget that there are others out there who share the same ideals. Living in the city isn't the worst thing in the world, I know, but it makes me sad to see people running frantically throughout their day, not taking the time to really breathe or interact with people other than those who are ringing up their purchases. Even then, they're treating those people like robots instead of living people who have lives and dreams of their own. Life in the city is impersonal. It's sterile, yet tainted.

As far as spending too much time in the kitchen during classes, that won't be a worry! I'll be the one there writing down virtually every word and asking the most questions! I fully intend to build my log home as closely as possible to the way it's taught. I'm paying for expert knowledge. I'm not dumb enough to walk away thinking, "Yeah, but I bet it would work if I did this instead of that."

However, I like kitchens a lot so I'm hoping to explore their's a bit and really look at things. If it's possible, I want to buy new kitchen appliances and not rely on getting used ones just to make it cheaper. I'm keeping an open mind though. One thing's for sure, I'm getting state of the art, top of the line washer and dryer! I'm a writer, thus a homebody. And after apartment living, I WANT MY OWN WASHER AND DRYER!

I know it won't be an easy process. My plan of attack is this: Lots of prayer and hard work. In that order.

Thanks for writing again and for the encouragement!

[rreidnauer]

. . . . . . . However, I like kitchens a lot so I'm hoping to explore their's a bit and really look at things. . . . . . . . I'm keeping an open mind though.


Uhmmmmm, good thing, as I think you'll find the kitchen there is a bit . . . . . errrrrr . . . . . . unconventional.

Perhaps I should say it's full of character. Yea, that sounds better. :lol:

[JeffandSara]

You're right, Rod.... lotsa character... lotsa toasters. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Keith, have a great time! (Aren't you the one who's going in November and can't wait? Don't worry, November will come soon and it'll be worth the wait!)

Sara :D

[ChainsawGrandpa]

"One thing's for sure, I'm getting state of the art, top of the line washer and dryer! I'm a writer, thus a homebody. And after apartment living, I WANT MY OWN WASHER AND DRYER!"


Might I suggest the Miele (me-luh)? We bought one several years ago.
In our area we have cheap water and very cheap electricity, still the
Miele may have already paid for itself by now. It uses very little water,
even less electricity, and about 1/2 the normal amount of soap. I
think we paid $2,300. Yikes!! The Neptunes are not quite as good, but
they are pretty decent, and at 1/3 the cost they will pay for themselves
much quicker than the Miele. My wife did some clothes while house-
sitting for my parents. I asked her what happened to the clothes. They
looked like someone washed them on a rock down at the river. She said
"I used your Mom's washer. It's a top-loader and it really beats-up the
clothes."

We bought the Miele because we were anticipating a future move to a
log home and I wouldn't have a lot of power to spare when running off
a generator power system. Also didn't want to put a lot of excess
water into our drain field. They have a habit of failing in the worst
part of the winter.
-Rick

[KeithMN]

Rod said:
Uhmmmmm, good thing, as I think you'll find the kitchen there is a bit . . . . . errrrrr . . . . . . unconventional.

Perhaps I should say it's full of character. Yea, that sounds better.

and then Sara said:
You're right, Rod.... lotsa character... lotsa toasters.

Ok. Yeah. Comments like that help a lot in my quest for patience until the middle of November. :lol: I'm not curious at all now! LOL An "unconventional" kitchen... Just goes to show you that there's a lot of freedom when it comes to building your own log home! And to think, I could have been stuck with a boring, old, cookie-cutter, stick frame house with a normal kitchen! :shock:

I love to cook. I want a great kitchen. I'm trying not to plan or dream too much about it until I get to class though. I don't want to get my hopes up too high to find out something wouldn't be feasible.

I do a lot of volunteer work with the elderly and the homeless so where I live often becomes a meeting place for friends or people in need. This is where I have trouble in dreaming about what I want in a log home. I don't want a big, expansive home because (as my mother ingrained in me) it would be a LOT to clean! But I want things like a guest room or two, a storage room for my stuff, a storage room for helping people in need, a workshop area, a library/office/den where I can do my writing, etc., And, now, apparently, I might need a room just for :?: toasters :?: LOL

Then again, a lot of this is going to depend on where I get land and how much I have, etc., Uff-da! I'm warning you now, these forums are going to be used a lot by me as a sounding board for advice and an outlet for venting excitement...

Rick, I'm nowhere near ready to pick out my washer and dryer right now! I have a notebook for keeping ideas and advice though, so thanks. I've heard nothing but bad things about the Neptune, so now I know enough to stay away from that. 8)

[rustbucketbingo]

Hey Keith,

Reading your comments makes me laugh. You're posts are a like a manifestation of my inward excitement to a degree. I invision you coming back and checking the board several times a day to see what people have to say and trying to glean from their experiences. I know, I'm the same way. My wife and have become log fanatics. We could have gotten in a wreck just today, rubbernecking as we passed a log house on our way home from church.

"Is it a kit home? Is it chinkless? Could it be butt-and-pass? No, it's got notches. Are those natural logs? No, they're milled. Are you sure? That one's got a basement. Wouldn't it be great to build a log home back in there, against the tree line?"

Your enthusiasm further inspires me as I'm sure everyone else's will. I look forward to meeting you.

I'll be joining you for the class in November and I'm counting the days. I'm more than anxious to start stacking.

-joel

[JeffandSara]

Keith and Joel--

Jeff and I were the same as you before he went to the class, and he was even more enthusiastic after. (It's a good thing we had a long drive home, because he had so much he wanted to tell me!) I went to the class a few months later, and had a fabulous time, too, but by then I was already prepared for what I'd see and what the seminar would be. I'd started drawing up plans and I'm pretty sure we also had a model built. It was STILL a wonderful and exciting weekend. And actually, I'll say our enthusiasm for Skip, Ellsworth, Steve and the philosophy taught has not flagged in the least over the years and throughout the building process. :D

As for Rod and I teasing you, Keith... don't worry, it's because we've been there where you're at, so we empathize. And hey, we've been talking about all the old-fashioned values.... well, you're experiencing one of them now that modern people don't often really bask in much anymore.....

ANTICIPATION!
:D :lol: :D :lol: :D :lol:

Take care, folks.
Sara :D

[KeithMN]

Joel, Woo hoo! Great to "meet" my first classmate! Can't wait till recess so we can talk logs! Actually, that's something I learned from the forums... log-speak. It's a whole other language spoken by a distinct group of people who appreciate values, simplicity and good old-fashioned work ethic. You can use log-speak in a group of strangers and your conversation remains private because people have never heard words like rebar before! We can use bad words like "jack screws" and not offend people because they don't know what we're talking about. Only log home folk can use phrases like "butt and pass" and wonder why the city-folk are snickering like middle school kids.

Do you know where your staying yet? Are you spending any extra time in the area?

Sara, I actually had a dream last night that I was in a log home and, while exploring, found a room full of toasters that kept popping up cookies. :shock: I don't think November can come soon enough!

I'm sooo tempted to sketch what I would like in a log home, but don't want to get ahead of myself. I really want to do this right. One thing I plan to do though, is keep a special notebook where I add up all the expenses I have towards building my log home, starting with LHBA membership. When it's all said and done, I want to see how much it cost me and how much of it is paid for.

Be back in a bit. I'm off to toast some cookies....

[rreidnauer]

Sara, I actually had a dream last night that I was in a log home and, while exploring, found a room full of toasters that kept popping up cookies. :shock: I don't think November can come soon enough!

I'm sooo tempted to sketch what I would like in a log home, but don't want to get ahead of myself. I really want to do this right. One thing I plan to do though, is keep a special notebook where I add up all the expenses I have towards building my log home, starting with LHBA membership. When it's all said and done, I want to see how much it cost me and how much of it is paid for.

Be back in a bit. I'm off to toast some cookies....

Boy, I'm glad I didn't mention those other really neat/amazing/cool things there at Skip's place. Heavens no, I don't want to test that patience you are trying to keep in check. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well, Keith. Making up some sketches might be a good way to pass the time until then. Surely, it won't hurt anything.

Hey Sara. Do you think it might have been Skip's famous cookies popping up in Keith's dream! LOL :lol:

[JeffandSara]

OH, yes, Rod, I'm thinking Keith was "channeling" on Skip's famous cookies, definitely! :lol:

And Keith, draw all you want, just think SQUARE! Rod's right-- it can't hurt to start getting a feel for "working inside the box" (literally and figuratively), and then after the class you'll have a better idea of specifics that might/might not work within that space. I drew STACKS of plans both before and after the class, and it's an interesting mental process going from your original ideas to what you actually end up building. It was for us, for sure.

And... if you're really excited and need to stay busy, go to your local public library (or maybe a college bookstore with used textbooks?) and look for a good basic fairly recent architectural textbook. It'll give you a much better idea of what you need to allow in the way of room sizes, stair sizes, distance between appliances and walls, standard sizes for built-ins, etc. Good to start making a running listing of those things for easy reference if you aren't necessarily planning to work straight from the stock plans LHBA has available.

Have fun! November's coming! :D

Sara

[dbtoo]

Perhaps I should say it's full of character. Yea, that sounds better.
Sure is, especially wiith all the new members milling around.

[KeithMN]

Rod and Sara,

Cookies, toasters and logs, oh my! What more could a guy ask for in his first vacation in five years?

Hitting the library for some books might not be a bad idea. Give me something to do to kill some time. Hmmm... wonder if they're open today (Columbus Day). I have the day off work and not much but laundry to do. I've already read four books in the past week, another one can't hurt.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[LoggerDon]

I picked up a couple 'log home' books at the library to read on the way up to WA. They were no more than thick brochures for kit companies. They contained passages such as (paraphrasing):

1) Don't make the mistake of thinking log homes as 'affordable housing'. Log homes will cost you 10 - 15% more than a conventional stick-built home.

2) When designing, make sure to accomodate for log shrinkage. Leave a six inch space above windows and doors. Use slip joints for all electrical and plumbing to accomodate log shrinkage. You may need to use jacks underneath your house and also to lower your roof.

The Butt and Pass method was only referred to in passing as a 'primitive pioneer' method. Really creepy how the kit builders dominate the industry.

Have fun in class.

[Oneshot]

Couldn't agree more with the log home magazine thoughts logger.

[JeffandSara]

Yup, guys--

Some of the books will discuss various styles for the do-it-yourselfer. And I have one book that actually has a Skip-style home in it, because those authors really love all kinds of log homes. (We've discussed this before here on the forums...)

But no matter HOW beautiful a log you YOU build, you'll NEVER make it into a log home magazine. You building a beautiful home out of raw timber sells no "product" and no "services". And the magazines are all about products and services.

Sara :wink:

[KeithMN]

Sounds like a good opportunity for a husband and wife team that enjoy writing and photography to create the first true log home magazine created for the true enjoyment of them. 8)