Skip's Construction Method - How Much Flexibility

[Steve Wolfe]

As I continue to read through the various topics more and more questions arise. This is a good thing as I've signed up for the Sept. 9-10 class so I will have plenty of questions to ask, that is if they are not already covered in class. There is however, one primary question I have. Can "D" shaped logs be used with Skip's construction methods with a good and reasonable degree of success? There are a number of factors that have led me in the direction of "D" shaped logs.

Lack of 30-40' logs that are straight with a 3-inch max taper.
Not enough trees that are similar in diameter.
One of my wife's contingencies - that she has inside walls that are flat. (I know, part of the ambiance of a log home is seeing the logs, both inside and outside.

I understand "D" shaped logs are much more vulnerable to rot as not only are the rings at the ends exposed, they are really exposed on each flat surface. I am hoping there are products available to properly seal the cut and exposed surfaces. If not I will have to consider buying logs, or use shorter sections with splices which I understand is not ideal either.

I want to make sure I am in the right mind set for the class. Before the class date arrives I would like to have Sandy on board regardless of the answer to my question.

Thanks,
Steve

[mbailey]

Hi Steve,

Glad to see you are going in September. Raw logs with the bark peeled are what you will find being recommeded at the class. Ellsworth and Steve will both tell you that a log only has the bark removed and if it is cut to change it from a round log to a flat surface it is no longer a log but a timber. You will enjoy seeing how nice those huge round logs look when you take the class at Skip's house.


Enjoy,

Mark

[rreidnauer]

Once you'd have logs milled into "D-logs", there is little reason left to utilize the Skip technique of rebarring. In reallity, you couldn't propery pin them "to center" when the log is cut that way. You can still do butt-and-pass, and many kit manufatures do just that, instead of notching. Basically, you are now saying, "Can I build a kit-home?"

But, perhaps there can be some compromise with your better half, and have some of the walls flat, through other techniques. For example, for my kitchen, I plan on framing the wall where the cabinetry will be, to provide the the flat surface for mounting them and the backsplash. I plan to do the same in the bathroom that is on an outside wall, to isolate humdity from showering from getting to the logs.

Anyhow, a lot can come down to design, and still get the best of both worlds.

[Steve Wolfe]

Hello Mark and Rod,

Thank you for the reply and I read you loud and clear. Personally I would like to have large, beautiful, long straight logs visible inside and out. That is the epitome of a log home. A large part of the attractiveness of building a log home is to do so while using the natural resources available from the land you intend to live on. Our land is 95% wooded however, I do not believe there are sufficient quantities of trees, hardwood, spruce or white pine that are of the length, diameter and straightness desired and recommended.

In keeping with the spirit of ???building from scratch??? I would like nothing better than to build using the trees on the land we own. Since a 10-inch to 6-inch taper over a 30 foot length is not going to cut it, and a 10-inch to 8-inch taper over a length of 18 feet would, I still have to deal with logs that are shorter and less straight than desired. I guess I am trying to find out if a timber home out of home milled logs is the beginning of a disastrous end, or if they too can fit within Skip???s proven methods. If not the latter, I need to change my game plan and adapt to what will work. If that is what???s absolutely required, I can go there. If going with a timber home proves to be more costly and less simplistic, but viable, it will be worth it due to the satisfaction of using trees from the same land our home is built on.

Hope this isn???t too philosophical or wordy but I am compelled to follow my convictions whenever possible. To convey ones sentiments is sometimes difficult to do.

New question???.Let us say that Sandy can be converted to, (and genuinely happy) with what is truly a log home. Will it be practical to do so using trees of shorter length and a lot of chinking?

Steve

[rreidnauer]

. . . . . . . . I guess I am trying to find out if a timber home out of home milled logs is the beginning of a disastrous end, or if they too can fit within Skip???s proven methods.

Sure, It's absolutely feasible to build square timber, and still use Skip style methods for weather protection. Many students (even after being recommended not to) build with alternate methods. (like commercial chinking and log sealing) It doesn't mean the house is gonna fall down on them. Usually, all it ends up being, is more preventative maintenance being required.


New question???.Let us say that Sandy can be converted to, (and genuinely happy) with what is truly a log home. Will it be practical to do so using trees of shorter length and a lot of chinking?

Sure, of course. That's the beauty of it. Almost anything can be changed around. You got short logs? No problem. Add a transition (corner) to make use of what you got. It's just more labor, that's all. I do recommend that you try to build so the roof is limited to as few "planes" as possible, as many different roof angles only add to the cost of the already most expensive part of the build. So, something sort of like this perhaps:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/titantornado/roofline.jpg

Smaller diameter logs can be used, but will add up to more joints requiring chinking. You probably shouldn't go much below 10" dia, 8 at the very least. Though, square cut timbers might let you get away a bit thinner, but your R-value is going to start getting really low if thats a major concern.

[JeffandSara]

Hey, Rod and hi, Steve--

Would just add in discussing shorter log lengths, that there IS the issue of potentially difficult corner matching in the diagram Rod provided (unless you do square your logs, Steve. Was that what you were getting at, Rod?). Finding shorter and longer logs that all have acceptably-similar butt and top measurements is likely to be problematic.

There are ways, however, of using more walls of the same (shorter) length, rather than building one bigger square. Not sure what you or Sandy are up to, design-wise, but students in the past have built octagons and such. The key if you get her on-board to use natural tapered logs is to design with an even number of similar-length walls, so that you can get level on every other course with butt ends and top ends alternating.

Enjoy the course. It's a wonderful way to spend a weekend! :D

Sara

[Fro]

Steve,

Although the walls inside a traditional Skip style home are not "flat" they are plumb on the inside of the home with the bowed side of the logs to the exterior. So while there is no continuous flat surface area you can hang a picture on the wall for example and it will lay flat.

Regards,
Ben

[hawkiye]

You'd be better off building Skips method and then paneling with tongue and groove etc. any walls you want straight on the inside. You'll understand better after you take the class. But with Skips method you can use just about any kind of logs even if it is not perfectly straight and full of knots. I actually like the real knotty stuff looks very rustic IMO and I can't see it being any harder to stack really. White pine would make a fine house with Skips method.

Blayne

[Steve Wolfe]

Hello All,

You have all brought up great points and very sensible solutions. Rod, multiple shorter walls would work. More labor but practical if I can find enough logs with similar measurements for the butt and top ends as Sara pointed out. I guess short walls are preferred rather than butt splices.

It would be painful to cover the inner face of the walls with anything. But???.using tongue and groove as Blayne said as may satisfy what Sandy is looking for and per Ben, with the inside walls being plumb it should go up fairly well. Lots to think about.

Just this weekend I blazed a trail down to the far reaches of our property as I need access to every part of the property if I am going to have any chance of finding enough trees that will work. There are some good ones way down there but the pull is going to be a challenge with one or two spots of 15 to 20% grade. After clearing about 20 wind falls in about a quarter of a mile my trusty old Bronco got me down there and back up. We???ll see how it does while pulling logs up the steeper grades. About half way down two beautiful 80 foot white pines recently fell. There are only about 30 of those big boys but I don???t think I want to cut every one of them down. Or???are they going to continue coming down anyway due to wind and snow loads???? I sure wish I had about 120 of them. Maybe a mix of hard and soft woods on alternating courses would fly. That is a question I???ll save for the class.

Again, great talking with you all. Many thanks.
Steve

[mlr1968]

Have fun at the class it is well worth the time and money for this investement :D About the different species of logs, that may be covered in the members only section , but I can't recall, might be a problem with inspectors if you have to use one of those pesky critters :twisted: . might have some odd shrinkage from hardwoods to softwoods, but it will be an interesting question. Don't forget eat some of those famous cookies :D Skip occasionaly gives out the receipe but you might have to beg a little :twisted:

[hawkiye]

Have fun in the class you won't regeret it . Some of the best money I ever spent. You will come away with a whole new perspective on what a real Log home is and what one should look like. Skips place is the most spectacular loghome you'll see.

In my opinion kit builders have muddied the waters of what log homes should look like on the inside and outside so folks who look at the these pictures get a false preconcieved idea what they think they would want in a log home. There are some hand crafters out there that build some nice decent notched houses but they are expenisive and still have the settling issue. However any time I drive by a kit house I always mumble to myself that just don't look right and when I see log siding I want to puke. That's how it can change your perspective ;)

Get someone to cut you a cat track down to the bottom of your property. Dirt work here in Idaho runs anywhere from 50 to 70 an hour. If it's not a full blown road shouldn't take more then a 2-4 hours depending on how far.

Blayne

[Steve Wolfe]

Hello Blayne/MLR1968,

No worries, no regrets. I have no doubt that the class will be worth its weight in gold. I dove into building a log home from scratch a little under a year ago and thought I was going to have to Lone Ranger it. As far as I???m concerned, discovering the LHBA site, joining the forums and attending the class is an unexpected but welcomed pleasure.

As far as cat tracks, there are already a few as they took out most of the 2 foot diameter and bigger monster walnuts and mighty oaks about 6 months before we purchased the property. There is a lot of clean up to be done regarding tree tops, stumps and debris but that will come in time. I just have to clear wind falls, remove some stumps and get permission from one of my neighbors to use a track along the property line, (it is on his property so hopefully he won???t mind). I want to keep things as natural as possible so a crude track is best compared to an actual road.

I will be sure to try out some of those ???Skip??? cookies. Gotta see if they are up to what people say they are.

Take care,
Steve

[adubar]

Steve Wolfe, and any passers-by looking into "D" or planed logs,

I'm glad you will be attending the class. All that has been said on this thread will be covered and more.

I though I might ad my own experience with profiled logs and longevity.

I'm currently helping a friend and his father with their 30 year old profiled log home. My friend's father logged the trees himself and then decided to use a butt and pass method to build. However; he also decided it would be easier to stack logs if they were flat on the top and bottom!!!!!

After 20 years of commercial preservatives and caulking, along with a few expensive contracts with ???experts,??? they are resigned to the fact that they cannot prevent the moisture from doing damage.
They would be happy if a miracle presented them with a fool-proof way to abate the rot that has already damaged the home.

Not too sure I would want to risk this type of situation for any aesthetic preference.

I think the best advice on this forum has been to wait until after the class to make any decisions about anything dealing with design and construction, as well as financing.

After the week-end, you will have gone down a road you might never have thought existed, or at the very least might have never noticed.

Good luck!

A

[Steve Wolfe]

Adubar and all,

Rest assured there are only two things cast in stone at this time. One, I will be attending the class and two, we will build a log home. Other than that all other ideas have been preconceived notions based on the limited amount of information we have gathered to date. It???s what we don???t know yet that will help us out in the end. I???m keeping the Mind Wide Open. The ultimate objective is to build something that will stand the test of time so everyone can enjoy it. For now I???ll just keep bringing logs up??????.and working on Sandy and her perceptions. Nobody said it was going to be easy but I am looking forward to it!


Take care,
Steve

[Logbear]

The logs we used were not perfect. We had knots, wierd tapers, and even some dry rot in some places where the logs had been sitting on the ground before I bought them. But using the "Skip" method makes up for imperfect logs. Our house is about 16 years old now and it's as good as new. I would agree with a previous reply that mentioned that if you want a flat interior wall, just leave the logs alone and build a flat wall. The intact log is what gives you the insulating qualities.

Have fun in the class!