Second Floor Beam Support

[aaroncgi]

Hi all,


I've been reading everything I can get my hands on regarding log homes, and my wife and I have designed a floor plan for a 38' x 38' home that's I guess what you'd call 1.5 story - approximately 4' high knee walls around the perimeter of the second floor. I'm starting to get into some of the nitty gritty aspects of what is possible and recommended, structurally speaking.

There will obviously be a need for a beam to support the second floor joists, and 2x12 joists 16" o.c. look like they'll span the remaining distance beam-to-wall ok. We're planning a structural ridge pole at the peak of the roof, which seems to be the most common way to go. I have put in four ridge pole support logs - RPSLs - one at each gable end, and two more spaced equidistantly across the span of the building (so approximately 12' apart, assuming 12" thick outer walls).

My question is this: Is there any reason we can't use the RPSLs to also support the beam for the second floor - obviously assuming they're large enough and the foundation footings underneath are designed for the extra load?

I'm picturing one continuous beam somehow tied into the RPSLs. It would be awesome if we could use a log (with a flat top) for the beam, but I'm picturing that being much more difficult a proposition than a relatively skinny glulam/LVL.


Cheers!

[Basil]

go with steel and build on top of that. I have 11 3/4" I beams on 8' centers with joists on top of that. You can span your whole 38 ' (mine are 36') with 3 beams, use your crossbeam at the center rpsl to support just a couple of feet, and use your back wall to support a couple of feet. It's what I did.

[Plumb Level]

You can do it and it is done quite often. We call these beams girders. I have two girders supporting my half loft. The girder in the middle is supported by a GSL that goes all the way to the basement. Then on top of that girder, another short log that goes up to support the middle of my Ridge pole. But my back girder receives support in the middle from a bracket mounted to the rear RPSL. I had it custom made, jacked the girder up 1/4", mounted the bracket with 7/8" allthread, and removed the jack.

Sounds like you are getting pretty serious with your plans. I highly recommend signing up for the class. It looks like you have learned a lot by going through the public forum. But the members side has so many more details on construction and the only way to get there is to take the class.

[loghousenut]

I agree. Take the class, if only to be on the member's side. You have no idea what questions you haven't thought to ask. We relate differently to each other over there and it makes all the difference.

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[aaroncgi]

go with steel and build on top of that. I have 11 3/4" I beams on 8' centers with joists on top of that. You can span your whole 38 ' (mine are 36') with 3 beams, use your crossbeam at the center rpsl to support just a couple of feet, and use your back wall to support a couple of feet. It's what I did.

Thanks for the thoughts, Basil. So you're saying you have three steel I-beams supporting your second floor joists, and they are spanning your entire building, all in parallel, 8' apart, resting only on your outer log walls. Is that correct? Certainly would be an option - though if your joists are on top of the 11 3/4" beams, how are you hiding the beams?

[aaroncgi]

You can do it and it is done quite often. We call these beams girders. I have two girders supporting my half loft. The girder in the middle is supported by a GSL that goes all the way to the basement. Then on top of that girder, another short log that goes up to support the middle of my Ridge pole. But my back girder receives support in the middle from a bracket mounted to the rear RPSL. I had it custom made, jacked the girder up 1/4", mounted the bracket with 7/8" allthread, and removed the jack.

Sounds like you are getting pretty serious with your plans. I highly recommend signing up for the class. It looks like you have learned a lot by going through the public forum. But the members side has so many more details on construction and the only way to get there is to take the class.


You can do it and it is done quite often. We call these beams girders. I have two girders supporting my half loft. The girder in the middle is supported by a GSL that goes all the way to the basement. Then on top of that girder, another short log that goes up to support the middle of my Ridge pole. But my back girder receives support in the middle from a bracket mounted to the rear RPSL. I had it custom made, jacked the girder up 1/4", mounted the bracket with 7/8" allthread, and removed the jack.

Sounds like you are getting pretty serious with your plans. I highly recommend signing up for the class. It looks like you have learned a lot by going through the public forum. But the members side has so many more details on construction and the only way to get there is to take the class.

Yes, I/we are pretty serious, but that's just kind of my nature. My wife might instead call it obsessive. :) What can I say, I love to design and build things. I realize that class as well as the members section is really the place to get answers to most questions, especially the more technical ones. If we were at all close to breaking ground on this plan/dream, we'd sign up in a heartbeat. But, we're still I would say 5-10 years out - planning to pay off our existing mortgage first, along with saving money for land so that we can hopefully buy that outright. We don't want to take the class and then by the time we're able to build, have forgotten everything! Though, I'm sure good notes would go a long way regardless.

It's enough for me to know that certain things are possible and certain things aren't, for now. :)

You did answer a specific question I had - whether one could support a girder by a log (GSL), then attach another log on top of that to support the ridge pole. I saw what you did on your photobucket site, makes sense now. I am curious why you needed another girder for the loft so close to the outer wall, as opposed to just connecting the joists to the outer wall like you did for the first floor. I'm sure there's a good reason for it, though, no worries. :)

Cheers!

[Basil]

I'm not hiding them at all. They are primer coated and exposed. I do pull ups on them every day

[Arrowman]

I'm not hiding them at all. They are primer coated and exposed. I do pull ups on them every day

Paint them black and claim is a post-modern Industrial style log cabin.


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[Plumb Level]

Hi Aaron - I did 2 girders to support the loft just cause I could. Maybe also a little because of my loft joist size decision. Someone suggested 4x6 joists, 2' O.C.; as opposed to the 3x10s I was considering. Gave me a little more headroom and that way I could stop at 11 courses of logs instead of going on up to 12. So with a little smaller joist, a girder set in about 2' from the wall would shorten the span of those joists by that 2'. The reality is, the 4x6 can span about the same as a 3x10, but I just felt better with a big girder under there.

Sounds like you have a lot of good ideas about paying off your current house and paying cash for land.

[rocklock]

I am curious why you needed another girder for the loft so close to the outer wall, as opposed to just connecting the joists to the outer wall like you did for the first floor. I'm sure there's a good reason for it, though,

The why question...
1. It is easier and really fast.
2. I planned for it.
3. I had 3 identical logs hence two logs are "close" to my log walls.
4. It was on my LHBA plans as the way to do it...

See the pictures ...

Plus its really cool to set up a swing indoors for kids to enjoy
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s274/flintlock1/log%202007/100_0496.jpg

[aaroncgi]

Cool, all good information everyone, thanks for the feedback! Certainly there are lots of different ways to accomplish the same goals, we're realizing. The resources, both materials and time, one has available, all play a part. Not having to use joist hangers does seem like it would speed up floor framing considerably, so I'll keep that in mind.