LOGISTICS: How to transition from city, to building log home?

[SnowFlower]

I guess the biggest issue is that the area we'd like to build our log home is 5+ hours flight away from where we live now and we are going to be doing this on a tight budget –*so I'm imagining that we will have to move out of our apartment (to save on rent), leave our jobs as we can't take so much time off, and move onto our empty lot living in a tent during construction.

I'm trying to figure out how we will make the transition with minimal flights, minimal renting etc. Has anyone done this on a budget, and how did you go about it? Or how would you go about it if you were in this situation?

Thanks :)

[3degreenerd]

I guess the biggest issue is that the area we'd like to build our log home is 5+ hours flight away from where we live now and we are going to be doing this on a tight budget –*so I'm imagining that we will have to move out of our apartment (to save on rent), leave our jobs as we can't take so much time off, and move onto our empty lot living in a tent during construction.

I'm trying to figure out how we will make the transition with minimal flights, minimal renting etc. Has anyone done this on a budget, and how did you go about it? Or how would you go about it if you were in this situation?

Thanks :)
Well first off welcome to the forum. Take a walk down memory lane and read through the numerous previous posts. I can't speak for everyone but a lot of the members have done what you plan on doing. It's not easy but plenty have accomplished it and more will in the future. That being said living on your property during construction seems to be the popular way to go. Some do commute and I believe there are members who fly halfway around the world to work on their homes. Some buy old mobile homes and park them on the property, fix them up and live there during the build. It ultimately comes down to you, if you plan on building fairly quickly then maybe a tent will work, if not you might want to find a more appropriate long term structure during construction. I haven't attended the class yet, going in September, but many members who have done this for years will tell you. Take the class! It seems to be the way to go and before you go quitting jobs and moving it makes sense. I can only offer so much advice since I haven't started my journey yet but you will find a ton of information in these forums just grab some coffee and start reading!

[SnowFlower]

@3degreenerd We will definitely take the class! I'm just trying to get a good idea of how realistic it will be for us to do this.

We'd like to get the basic 1 bed, 1 bath structure built with the roof and everything in a 2-3 month period. We'd probably start in late Spring, I guess, to ensure the weather is tolerable and that we have enough time to get set up before Winter.

[3degreenerd]

@3degreenerd We will definitely take the class! I'm just trying to get a good idea of how realistic it will be for us to do this.

We'd like to get the basic 1 bed, 1 bath structure built with the roof and everything in a 2-3 month period. We'd probably start in late Spring, I guess, to ensure the weather is tolerable and that we have enough time to get set up before Winter.
Completely understandable. Sounds like you have the drive and desire to make it happen so it will come together. Make sure you have a place to live on property first and then you can build as finances allow which is my plan. The goal is to be debt free by the end of my project!

[rreidnauer]

No doubt living on site is the best option, for both cost and time reasons. Cheap trailers are plentiful, but take some work to make true 4 seasons if in a colder climate. It's what I'm doing, full off grid. Cost of living is dirt cheap, as my only recurring bills are cell phone and internet. Being able to work right up until you're ready to quit for the day, and you don't have to worry about a drive home, is a big thing.

If you are worried that you can't find jobs locally while building your place, then it would indicate to me that the property is not a good primary home location. I can find tons of beautiful, cheap property, but they are usually hours away from anything. (including reliable internet for a home based business)

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[SnowFlower]

@rreidnauer Yes, Internet's a tricky one. We do need to be able to access it at least a few times a week.

As for work, we're hoping to save up enough so that we don't have to work during that time period of building, but it would be good to be able to work once we've moved into the home.


@3degreenerd Yes, being debt free is a big one!

[rreidnauer]

As for work, we're hoping to save up enough so that we don't have to work during that time period of building, but it would be good to be able to work once we've moved into the home.
That's what I mean. If you can't find work while building, what's to say you can once your place is complete? As I like to say, I can afford to buy it, I just can't afford to keep it.


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[SnowFlower]

That's what I mean. If you can't find work while building, what's to say you can once your place is complete? As I like to say, I can afford to buy it, I just can't afford to keep it.


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Right, yes. All things we will have to take into consideration when finding land.

[donjuedo]

Getting some Internet access is often not that hard. Getting high speed Internet access is sometimes a lot harder.

The land I bought is very rural, in West Virginia. While I have not yet explored high speed options, I did buy a "Mi-Fi" and monthly service. It's a small device, much like a cell phone, including having its own cell phone number. Unlike a cell phone, it has no speaker or mic, because the purpose is to connect to AT&T cell service and provide me Internet access by Wi-Fi. It's all about the Internet connection, not voice or apps.

My plan only offers 5 GB per month, so I will not be using this option to stream Netflix movies or anything like that. But email is easy, or loading normal web pages, etc. It will more than meet my needs during construction. Along the way, I will be looking around for high speed options.


Peter

[StressMan79]

"Huges net" offers hi speed satellite internet.

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[panderson03]

We'd like to get the basic 1 bed, 1 bath structure built with the roof and everything in a 2-3 month period. We'd probably start in late Spring, I guess, to ensure the weather is tolerable and that we have enough time to get set up before Winter.

if you build small enough (15x15 or 20x20), keep it simple (one level, open concept), and work on it full time as a team of 2 (or more). it might be doable
we're building in MN. we're not building small or keeping it simple...its taking us years to finish.

[allen84]

LowKey should have a good reply to this when he gets to an internet connection... He traveled a long ways and is spending about a month to build one or two small buildings to stay in when he goes back. I don't know about anyone else but I'm anxious to see his pictures!

[rreidnauer]

"Huges net" offers hi speed satellite internet.

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My neighbor has it, and hates it.

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[rreidnauer]

Getting some Internet access is often not that hard. Getting high speed Internet access is sometimes a lot harder.

The land I bought is very rural, in West Virginia. While I have not yet explored high speed options, I did buy a "Mi-Fi" and monthly service. It's a small device, much like a cell phone, including having its own cell phone number. Unlike a cell phone, it has no speaker or mic, because the purpose is to connect to AT&T cell service and provide me Internet access by Wi-Fi. It's all about the Internet connection, not voice or apps.

My plan only offers 5 GB per month, so I will not be using this option to stream Netflix movies or anything like that. But email is easy, or loading normal web pages, etc. It will more than meet my needs during construction. Along the way, I will be looking around for high speed options.


Peter
Steve Wolfe has the same thing through Virgin Mobile (hot spot device) and also hates it.

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[donjuedo]

If I had to guess, I'd expect Steve hates either the speed, or the monthly data limit. Do you know specifics of why he hates his?

[allen84]

Coupled with the bill, I doubt anyone is happy with what they have. I have nice high speed that usually works, sometimes slow or doesn't work. I like it when it works but I hate the bill any way you cut it.

[SnowFlower]

Thanks guys! The other thing is, what to do with the kids? We may have a baby (or two) by the time we get to the construction stage.

[allen84]

Thanks guys! The other thing is, what to do with the kids? We may have a baby (or two) by the time we get to the construction stage.

I wish I had the picture. The Clampett's have some relatives around here. I saw them doing yard work one day. The playpen was full of babies and hitched to the back of the riding mower. Dad was mowing. I really saw this.

[SnowFlower]

if you build small enough (15x15 or 20x20), keep it simple (one level, open concept), and work on it full time as a team of 2 (or more). it might be doable
we're building in MN. we're not building small or keeping it simple...its taking us years to finish.

This is 20x30. (http://meadowlarkloghomes.com/log-cabins/20x30-log-cabin) Looks reasonable for a starter cabin. The idea is that once we have somewhere to sleep and cook etc. then we can take our time building a bigger place on the same lot. And our 'starter cabin' will turn into a guest house.

[rckclmbr428]

With your requirements I would be tempted to build a "tiny house" on a 16' trailer and pull it to the site and put it up on blocks.

[rreidnauer]

If I had to guess, I'd expect Steve hates either the speed, or the monthly data limit. Do you know specifics of why he hates his?

Yea, the speed is really bad. All the more insulting when you add the monthly cost he's paying.

The neighbor with the satellite internet hates both the speed and limit.

I actually like my service. 5GHz wifi, unlimited data @ 3Mbps up and down, (easily watch 720p video at that speed) reliable in all but the strongest downpours, and around $45 a month. (I pay annually for a discount)

[mudflap]

I wouldn't quit your job before the class. My property is 30 minutes from work, so I'm lucky. I have access to city sewer (barely- 600 feet down the road is septic only). And we thought about living there in a trailer while we build, but with city sewer comes city rules- they are not issuing housing permits for trailers anymore- something about tornadoes having too much fun. And when I say "city", we're talking population of <1500. Anyway, I took the class before buying land. Septic or sewer didn't matter to me, but they were the same price - $5k. Things cost more than you think. Having a job going into the build is definitely a plus. And definitely take the class before doing something you might regret. Knowledge is power.

blog: https://loghomejourney.wordpress.com/
password: ABCD1234

[chokonen888]

I'm a good 3-5 hour drive from my land, depends on weather, traffic, and whoever is with me and how often they want to stop and pee....it's about $100 in tolls and $100 in gas round trip. I just keep telling myself every tree I fell pays for each trip. (you should see the cost of logs here in Japan)


Not sure how flexible your job is but to cut costs, instead of doing the weekend drive, I'm likely going to take a week or so off each month and try to get more done with less driving/cost. I also bought a cheap class B motorhome and had it delivered for less than 4K. Sleeps 4, LEDs in all the lights keep things lit at night, it heats/cools, has a kitchen & toilet, and is comfy enough for each stay with minimal maintenance. You should also explore the area on google maps as well as in person to find out what is in the area that will help make your life easier. I am near enough to a hydroelectric dam that there is electricity and amazing cell reception if you have the right carrier. Near enough a campground with $1 showers and $3 bundles of firewood. Friendly with all the staff and they often offer up advice and free veggies from the locals. There is even some sort of weird abandoned Russian village theme park that I am far too busy to go explore but I would have never known was there if not for the internet.

[SnowFlower]

@mudflap @chokonen888 For the job, my partner gets about 2 weeks off a year, so it's really not possible to do much while keeping it. We're hoping to buy the land while he still has that job, but when it comes to building, we're going to have to drop everything and move –*unless we decide to hire someone else to build.

Personally, I don't care too much about roughing it for a few months with no running water. It's my partner who's worried that he won't be able to shower each night.

I'm also hoping we can start raising guinea fowl and geese ASAP (even before we've built the house) so that they can start getting the grass and insects in check.


@rreidnauer I've heard Verizon SmartPhones have 3G coverage in the location we're looking at, so that may be what we go with. It doesn't need to be super fast, but we do need unlimited data.

[Arrowman]

@mudflap @chokonen888 For the job, my partner gets about 2 weeks off a year, so it's really not possible to do much while keeping it. We're hoping to buy the land while he still has that job, but when it comes to building, we're going to have to drop everything and move –*unless we decide to hire someone else to build.

Personally, I don't care too much about roughing it for a few months with no running water. It's my partner who's worried that he won't be able to shower each night.

I'm also hoping we can start raising guinea fowl and geese ASAP (even before we've built the house) so that they can start getting the grass and insects in check.


@rreidnauer I've heard Verizon SmartPhones have 3G coverage in the location we're looking at, so that may be what we go with. It doesn't need to be super fast, but we do need unlimited data.

I don't think it's a matter of roughing it as much as it's managing the logistics. Having electricity and running water onsite or available close by while make things a lot easier. Living out of old milk jugs full of potable water is possible, but after day 10 it starts to get pretty old fairly quickly.

I don't want to rain on the parade, Snow Flower, but I would seriously walk through the logistics of the route you are trying to go down. For your size, the time frame is doable, but there are some proviso's on that. If I were you, I'd analyze it a couple of different ways.

1. Physically. Are you and your partner physically and emotionally up to the challenge? To get it done in 2 months, you will be working most every day, for most of the day. If you are currently physically active working in active/outdoor jobs, this will help. If you work primarily in an office like I do, you will need some break in time before you can start logging 10+ hour days building a house. Depending on your climate, the sun/cold may be a factor. If your skin hates the sun like mine does, working long hours in the summer can be pretty tough. If you live in a cold climate, I don't envy you digging footer piers to a 30" frost line in January with a pick and shovel. When you throw the fact that you are roughing it on top of this, it can make it pretty hard. No baths for your partner or yourself to relax aching muscles in. The lack of a nice sit down meal in a properly conditioned room. Sleeping on the ground or on an air mattress for days on end. These things can start to take a toll after awhile. You mentioned possibly having children, I definitely would hold off on that until you are done building. Especially if you are roughing it.

2. Financially. The house will not be cheap, they never are, but make sure you have worked out how much it is going to cost you to build. Even if you do all of the work yourself, there are still material expenses that can be hard to save upon. You will have living expenses, on top of the cost to build. And your labor isn't exactly free. You can frame the home yourself, but you still have the cost of saw blades, levels, nails, screws, chalk, etc. that you have to take into account. You will have a fair amount of gas for your vehicles. If you are roughing it, your storage for perishable food items will be limited. You WILL be making trips to the nearest town quite often for both building and living supplies. I would definitely put together some quotes for materials and some labor and see if it matches what you believe you will spend. Some times this can be shocking. As would be the cost of quitting your jobs.

3. Building knowledge and experience. Taking the class will help quite a bit, but there are other things you have to take into account. Have you done due diligence on the land? Is there a suitable spot to build? What are the soil conditions? How deep will you need to dig your piers for code? Depending on your location, bedrock can be lurking just 12" below the soil. Can contractors and material suppliers reach your jobsite with trucks? If not, do you have a truck and trailer to haul those supplies to your build site? What about lot maintenance? Depending on the size, guineas and geese may not be enough. I am building on 10 acres with 6 acres of pasture. I am having to mow it every week to keep the grass down and keep my friendly rattlesnakes at bay. Your experience will factor into your time as well. The more inexperienced you are at building, the longer and more costly the process will be.

Again, I'm not trying to be a bad guy. I am happy you guys are trying to live your dream. It's what most everybody on here seems to be doing. I just know that building a house, even a small one, can be tough in the best of conditions. Much less when you put yourself under some pretty restrictive self-imposed deadlines (no roof over your head and no income coming in). I would take Rod's advice under consideration. If this land is where you want to live, a much better option would be to move there before the build, find jobs and a cheap trailer to live in onsite, and then start building. Working nights and weekends on the house will still allow you to finish in a good amount of time, eliminate these restrictive deadlines you are trying to work with, and also allow you and your partner to take a well earned day off every now and then where you can sit in some air conditioning after taking a nice relaxing bath for those tired muscles, eat a good home cooked meal, and enjoy the satisfaction you are getting from achieving your dream.

[SnowFlower]

@Arrowman Thank you. Yes, that's why I'm here asking about the best way to organise this. Having stayed in a trailer before (on vacation) and having stayed in tents, I personally don't think the trailer is worth the extra cost.

Of course we will have to plan the season carefully and come prepared for any weather extremes. I'm thinking that it's a safer bet to start in early Spring, as worst case scenario it's easier to work through summer than to work through winter.

If we get the well drilled first thing and install a manual pump, we'll have the ability to wash, drink (from a filter container), and cook (on a gas camping stove). And next on the agenda can be building a composting (water free) outdoor toilet. I guess the easiest way to get electricity for power tools is to buy a backup diesel generator.

The problem with getting jobs locally before we have built a house is that it's going to slow down our building process drastically. So I would rather put us under the pressure of a financial deadline and get it done faster.

My partner is very physically fit, while I'm pretty average. But neither of us are ones to complain about physical labour or muscle aches. The sunburn issue is a good point and we will have to stock up on sunblock, long sleeve shirts and hats etc.

I am worried about long grass so we may need to account for buying a lawnmower depending on the state of the site.

We will definitely hire a professional surveyor to determine whether the land is suitable for our use before we purchase it.

From the research I've done, I think that if we organise everything upfront and are ready to go by the time we get there that 2-3 months of construction to have a liveable cabin is a reasonable time frame.

I get that this is going to be hard, but we're willing to make sacrifices to achieve our goal.

[dvb]

"I get that this is going to be hard, but we're willing to make sacrifices to achieve our goal."

As long as that is your mantra, you will get it done.

[project]

My neighbor has it, and hates it.

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I had it and threatened to sue them over it. I used the tractor and pulled the whole thing out of the ground and told them to come and get it.

Also you can buy a camper pretty cheap as well. Mine is 35' with awning and superslide and only paid $8000. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160621/8794b5242ce6fc630da8a74cff7eb031.jpg

[SnowFlower]

Thanks guys, I'm actually coming around to this trailer idea. It will enable us to build a bigger home from the get go because we won't be in such a rush.

[dvb]

I have Hughes Net Satellite Internet Service since 2013, the speeds are reasonable for me. All we really do is email for business and I sometimes have to do pretty large downloads of data, but I do that at night. Each month I get 10G of daytime data and 50G of night time data, 2AM to 8AM. The service has only gone down for a couple of nasty thunderstorms for about 10 Minutes each time. I pay $60.00 per month for this service. I consider this a small price to pay for living 30 miles from anything. There is not a gallon of gas or milk within 30 miles from us. I will add that this is the only choice we have here for internet service, there is no cell service and no hard wired service. I would probably change for another option if there was one available. I am working with the phone company, Century Link, to get some sort of Internet Service, but no luck after 3 years of trying. I guess I am trying to say that Hughes Net is a workable option if there is no other choice.

[loghousenut]

Thanks guys, I'm actually coming around to this trailer idea. It will enable us to build a bigger home from the get go because we won't be in such a rush.

You could pay a lot less for an ugly trailer that has more room if you don't mind getting rid of it when you're done. We accidentally lived over 16 years in ours before we started building. It is easy to get comfortable while you are living life and building the bankroll.


This is how the place looked from the build site just before the heavy equipment came.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Homesite%202-26-09%20009_zpsb2omcoak.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/loghousenut/media/Homesite%202-26-09%20009_zpsb2omcoak.jpg.html)

[allen84]

I think someone mentioned the tiny home trailer thing. That may be logical if you can build it yourself. I went on a little fieldtrip to see a couple this evening. You might see them on tv soon. One was way too cramped but the other would be pretty awesome for a single or couple... until you hear the price and consider it doesn't come with the dirt underneath it.. www.newfrontiertinyhomes.com I think, despite the hype, the tiny home thing is a fad/slim market. Especially on wheels with a big price tag.

[SnowFlower]

@allen84 "Starting at $68,000" LOL. I think it's for wealthy people who want to be eco-friendly.

@loghousenut I've had trouble finding any mobile homes (of any sort) that are under $17,000, used. How much was yours if you don't mind me asking? And are the transportation fees expensive?

After looking through more threads on this forum, I'm seeing a lot of people saying that it's taken them about 4 years to build their home. However, I've seen other people here and around the web who have built one much faster. So I'm very unclear about what our expectations should be.

[SnowFlower]

On the FAQ page (http://www.buildloghomes.org/questions-building-log-homes/) there's a story about a couple who build a log home in 9 weeks for $10,000 without help.

When I say that this is our goal, I get a load of people telling me that it's not possible or realistic. What should I make of this?

[rreidnauer]

I take that as, not realistic for most cases. Can it be done? Sure. If one had the *perfect* conditions, materials, equipment, etc. For the rest of us, dream on. Heck, I dropped $3k into my septic system on permits, design, and testing alone. (and another $7k in material, I provided the labor, and already had a backhoe)

As the saying goes around here, Cheap, fast, good. Pick two. You can't have all three.

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[rreidnauer]

I think someone mentioned the tiny home trailer thing. That may be logical if you can build it yourself. I went on a little fieldtrip to see a couple this evening. You might see them on tv soon. One was way too cramped but the other would be pretty awesome for a single or couple... until you hear the price and consider it doesn't come with the dirt underneath it.. www.newfrontiertinyhomes.com I think, despite the hype, the tiny home thing is a fad/slim market. Especially on wheels with a big price tag.

100% with you Allen. That whole trend is the latest gimmick. Too expensive, typically poor use of space, but hey, they are cute looking, and easily capture the eye of some with deluded dreams, yet to face the reality of what *living* that way really entails.

I had a conversation with another member years ago, who thought full-timing in a motor home was going to be a cake walk, since he said he had done so for a couple of weeks at a time in the past with no problems. I said, there is a big difference between camping a few weeks, and living permanently in such conditions. He found out harshly how right I was, and still struggles with it.

So, long term in a tent? Yea, it can be done. It is done. But it will be way more difficult than a simple weekend camping trip.

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[SnowFlower]

@rreidnauer thanks, that's good to know about how much septic tanks are. I think we will go with the composting toilet method.

I'm guessing that the more utilities we install 1800s style, the cheaper and faster we can move in. Perhaps we can look at upgrading these at a later date.

As for living in a trailer or tent, I know I can do it for months on end (I have done it for months on end before), but I'm not willing to do it for years on end.

So, yes. I guess we want to do it cheap and fast –*and we don't want anything fancy. Just the bare basics so that we can move in.

[loghousenut]

@loghousenut I've had trouble finding any mobile homes (of any sort) that are under $17,000, used. How much was yours if you don't mind me asking? And are the transportation fees expensive?

After looking through more threads on this forum, I'm seeing a lot of people saying that it's taken them about 4 years to build their home. However, I've seen other people here and around the web who have built one much faster. So I'm very unclear about what our expectations should be.

I don't know about where you live, but here in sunny southern Oregon, it is pretty easy to find a free, or nearly free, ugly 1970's style 12' wide mobile home (trailer house, Bo). They are all over the place and hard to get rid of. I heard a bunch of racket from the new neighbors across the road last summer. They had bought a new modular home and were dismantling their 1970's double wide. Yes, they were tearing apart a nicer ugly trailer than the one we are currently living in because nobody would take it for free. I took my telahandler up and made a new friend. It was a blast.

Our ugly trailer was here on the place when we bought it, and had been a rental. I didn't even look inside it before we bought the place because I knew we'd be building the log home any day now (and we had a bus conversion that we had planned living in if we'd found the right raw land). The thing was a mess, but with free used carpet, a lot of drywall mud, a ton of paint, and Fabreeze, we made it work. It is the situation that allowed us to pay the land off in 8 years and homeschool our Son on a single income.

It is such a blessing living for real, right on the build site. Laugh about our build schedule if you like, but no stress from a rushed project will ever upset our marriage. Our log home will turn out exactly how we want it to, with very few compromises in the name of hurry. Two years or ten years, I shall enjoy every minute of the build and it will always belong to us and us alone.

[SnowFlower]

I know some people on here are willing to spend years building a family heirloom, but we just want somewhere basic and affordable to live off the grid mortgage-free.

I'd like to find out how those people that managed to build their homes for $10-15,000 in 90 days or less did it.

[loghousenut]

They built simply with whatever logs they had and they went at it with a vengeance. I have been on that kinda build and it is a lot of fun, but there is less art to it than sweat. Having a ton of friends doesn't hurt. With a bit of creativity, you can get a lot of sweat out of a good friend for a week or two before they disown you.

[rreidnauer]

. . . or they might have had a free connection to a telehandler, or owned their own construction business with all the right equipment, or lots of help from others who've previously built their own places, or . . .

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[BoFuller]

I know some people on here are willing to spend years building a family heirloom, but we just want somewhere basic and affordable to live off the grid mortgage-free.

I'd like to find out how those people that managed to build their homes for $10-15,000 in 90 days or less did it.

I intended on taking 5 yrs, but then after getting my foundation done, I found out from the County that I had one year left on the permit. So we got it done in 13 1/2 months, after the foundation was finished.


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[slamasha]

I guess the biggest issue is that the area we'd like to build our log home is 5+ hours flight away from where we live now and we are going to be doing this on a tight budget –*so I'm imagining that we will have to move out of our apartment (to save on rent), leave our jobs as we can't take so much time off, and move onto our empty lot living in a tent during construction.

I'm trying to figure out how we will make the transition with minimal flights, minimal renting etc. Has anyone done this on a budget, and how did you go about it? Or how would you go about it if you were in this situation?

Thanks :)
In order to answer your questions some clarifications are needed (maybe, walk through these clarifications yourself):
1) Are you going to live on the property full-time after you build your log house -- or is it going to be a vacation cabin?
2) What do you expect to be as your utilities (are you dreaming to be totally off the grid)? Is there water/electricity/driveway access/etc.?
3) What are the regulations from the county regarding land use and types of (temp) dwellings you can have on a property?

Don't leave your jobs. Take the class. Rushing is not your friend. I agree with many comments: if you are not an experienced builder, it'll take time to settle to a certain mindset and realistic vision before you are ready. Conceptually, it sounds easy and fast. It's not in reality, but if you can enjoy it - you win!

We brought and "legalized" a mobile home to our property (in regulated AG-10 zone) -- initial cost was cheap, but we have redone it to our "acceptance level" which cost some money, still way better to live on the property (and cheaper) than to rent. We used some hired help for installing the utilities (well, septic, electricity) and paid quite a bit for permits etc. It was a long process. We hope to start our log house build this year.

If we were in a wilderness (in not regulated zone), mobile home would not be our solution, we would rather use a motorhome or build a small size shack as a temp dwelling.


Edited: we use Exede (satellite internet) + TMobile unlimited data plan [and it works great]

[SnowFlower]

In order to answer your questions some clarifications are needed (maybe, walk through these clarifications yourself):
1) Are you going to live on the property full-time after you build your log house -- or is it going to be a vacation cabin?

Yes, we will need to live there full time in order to build it as we can't afford to be going back and forth, and it will be in a remote area.

2) What do you expect to be as your utilities (are you dreaming to be totally off the grid)? Is there water/electricity/driveway access/etc.?

We will need well water and solar. Planning to use composting toilets. Anything else is a bonus. We also hope to work up to the point where we are producing much of our own food.

3) What are the regulations from the county regarding land use and types of (temp) dwellings you can have on a property?

We are planning to choose locations that have minimal regulation.

Don't leave your jobs. Take the class. Rushing is not your friend. I agree with many comments: if you are not an experienced builder, it'll take time to settle to a certain mindset and realistic vision before you are ready. Conceptually, it sounds easy and fast. It's not in reality, but if you can enjoy it - you win!

Of course we will take the course before doing anything drastic, but we simply cannot build a log home using the 2 weeks allotted vacation time. We don't have any choice other than to leave our jobs and apartment if we are going to dedicate time and money to building a log home.

We brought and "legalized" a mobile home to our property (in regulated AG-10 zone) -- initial cost was cheap, but we have redone it to our "acceptance level" which cost some money, still way better to live on the property (and cheaper) than to rent. We used some hired help for installing the utilities (well, septic, electricity) and paid quite a bit for permits etc. It was a long process. We hope to start our log house build this year.

If we were in a wilderness (in not regulated zone), mobile home would not be our solution, we would rather use a motorhome or build a small size shack as a temp dwelling.


Edited: we use Exede (satellite internet) + TMobile unlimited data plan [and it works great]

Good to know, thank you! Are they both good or is one better than the other?



Entered my responses in bold above.

[slamasha]

Edited: we use Exede (satellite internet) + TMobile unlimited data plan [and it works great]

Good to know, thank you! Are they both good or is one better than the other?.

We combine them. I work remotely a few days a week, so use internet quite a bit.
We use total of 31G/month (18G on Exede [12Mbps] + 13G on TMobile as a hotspot). They have comparable speed for our needs.
We don't watch Netflix or play internet games.
Depending on your area, you may not have a lot of choice.
We go to Starbucks if we need to download/upload large chunks of data.



These books may help with logistics:
1) Living Homes (https://www.amazon.com/Living-Homes-Masonry-Strawbale-Construction/dp/1892784327)
2) Mortgage Free!: Innovative Strategies for Debt-Free Home Ownership (https://www.amazon.com/Mortgage-Free-Innovative-Strategies-Debt-Free-ebook/dp/B006K40RHG)
3) Finding & Buying Your Place in the Country (https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Buying-Your-Place-Country/dp/0793141095)

In short, we know people who have built small cabins (in remote locations) while working full time. So, it's not required to continuously be on site for ~2+ weeks in order to build a small log cabin. Yes, it takes longer if you don't have continuous ~2-3 weeks. Another note: ~2-3 weeks may be a realistic time for a small cabin, if you have all your materials, utils, tools, a camper to stay at, possibly a helping crew --> handy in place, but not otherwise. If you are going to live there permanently, you should have a very realistic idea of what you are going to do to earn your income.

The best strategy is not to rush and gradually focus on one step at a time. Buy your land first. Solve your water supply/composting toilet/solar power/food garden logistics second. And so on. (Maybe, it'll require you coming a few times a year over the weekends or holidays). Hope it helps.

[Snow Queen Wolf]

Hello Everyone,

Hi this is SQW. I have attended log home shows, dreaming of the day when I would be able to build a log home on my own property. I decided to live the dream instead of dreaming the dream. Although I don't know anyone here as of yet. I get the good feeling I am no longer alone in this adventure. Quite the undertaking. So here I go. I am building on 40 acres in a mountainous area of Arizona. I have decided after much research to purchase a trailer to live in while I build and develop the property. Here's my startup list for getting set up on the property. 4x4 vehicle, trailer, larger propane tanks, generator and solar set up, solar light pole to be set at the entrance of the drive way(don't want to get lost), build a deck and shelter for the trailer, free crushed rock for the drive way into the property. I am compiling my list of tools and equipment I will need to prepare the logs. Does anyone have a list of must have tools and power tools & equipment required to prepare the logs? Which tools power/manual made your life easier? I am so excited about this adventure, I am feeling what it feels like to taste true freedom. I am sure I will experience all of the challenges of a novice/virgin log home builder, it will not be easy. I am up for the challenge. I will generate my own power, use propane, start a garden, raise chickens for sustenance and the eggs, a few goats for milk and cheese. Oh yes I am a real prairie woman. My mom canned and tended a garden, raised cattle, poultry, gleaned the farmers fields. I'm a baby boomer, My mom and dad built, fabricated, grew, raised 90% of everything required to feed a family. You all are proof it can still be done. I have access to a resource for my logs that will make it very affordable for me to build my log home. The largest diameter I may cut is (16") 6-20' long. Plenty of timber for railing, decking, fencing. I am pretty set for the amount of timber I will require . Ok, fantastic, That is a big step, reducing the cost of building material. Now, I need to compile my list of tools and get busy with the hard work of cutting and prepping the logs. Oh, yes the plan for the home. Umm still trying to decide on that. I want to build a log home with an open floor plan, 3000 sq.ft. 4br, 3ba, basement, deck. Rome wasn't built in a day. I am happy and blessed to be getting started. I invite contact from others in this forum to offer advice or just connect with me. Thanks for listening!

[3degreenerd]

Hello Everyone,

Hi this is SQW. I have attended log home shows, dreaming of the day when I would be able to build a log home on my own property. I decided to live the dream instead of dreaming the dream. Although I don't know anyone here as of yet. I get the good feeling I am no longer alone in this adventure. Quite the undertaking. So here I go. I am building on 40 acres in a mountainous area of Arizona. I have decided after much research to purchase a trailer to live in while I build and develop the property. Here's my startup list for getting set up on the property. 4x4 vehicle, trailer, larger propane tanks, generator and solar set up, solar light pole to be set at the entrance of the drive way(don't want to get lost), build a deck and shelter for the trailer, free crushed rock for the drive way into the property. I am compiling my list of tools and equipment I will need to prepare the logs. Does anyone have a list of must have tools and power tools & equipment required to prepare the logs? Which tools power/manual made your life easier? I am so excited about this adventure, I am feeling what it feels like to taste true freedom. I am sure I will experience all of the challenges of a novice/virgin log home builder, it will not be easy. I am up for the challenge. I will generate my own power, use propane, start a garden, raise chickens for sustenance and the eggs, a few goats for milk and cheese. Oh yes I am a real prairie woman. My mom canned and tended a garden, raised cattle, poultry, gleaned the farmers fields. I'm a baby boomer, My mom and dad built, fabricated, grew, raised 90% of everything required to feed a family. You all are proof it can still be done. I have access to a resource for my logs that will make it very affordable for me to build my log home. The largest diameter I may cut is (16") 6-20' long. Plenty of timber for railing, decking, fencing. I am pretty set for the amount of timber I will require . Ok, fantastic, That is a big step, reducing the cost of building material. Now, I need to compile my list of tools and get busy with the hard work of cutting and prepping the logs. Oh, yes the plan for the home. Umm still trying to decide on that. I want to build a log home with an open floor plan, 3000 sq.ft. 4br, 3ba, basement, deck. Rome wasn't built in a day. I am happy and blessed to be getting started. I invite contact from others in this forum to offer advice or just connect with me. Thanks for listening!
Welcome to the forum. Every question you have asked has probably been answered at one time or another. I started by reading all of the old posts and working my way to the present. So much knowledge to be gained and that's just on the free side. I have been told there are many more things on the members side. They have a class around labor day if you plan on attending class soon. This place can be a bit overwhelming but based on what I have seen its like a big family and you don't find that very often. So welcome, read up, take the class and get that dream kicked into high gear :)

[project]

There is a lot more info on the members side and several homes currently under construction. Welcome aboard

[panderson03]

you are right, 3degreen. what you see on the free side is just the tip of the iceberg.
on the members side there's not only more detailed info but also access to fellow members from all walks of life to give expert advice on all steps of the build process.
:) quite a gold mine

[SnowFlower]

Thanks guys! I cannot wait to get out of the city, and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to make this work.

As you say, step 1 is find suitable land and buy it – so this is our first goal. I think focusing on each step at a time will help :)

We have a small amount of income from an online business (just enough to pay for health insurance, groceries and utilities). This could potentially be enough for us to live on once we are rent/mortgage free and living a very minimalist lifestyle.

But yes, being able to commute from the construction site to a job would help us to fund anything we need for the building of the house. Even if it was only part time. Having said that, buying land in areas where you can get a job will obviously make the land more expensive.

It does seem to come down to an elaborate balancing act.

[allen84]

Do a lot of shopping before you choose. Prices can vary greatly an hour down the road, 10 minutes down the road or right next door.

[edkemper]

SnowFlower,

First off, welcome to the neighborhood. I get the feeling from the little you've written so far, you two can do it, with planning.

Let's visit that tiny home on wheels one more time. If you were planning on buying one, it's too costly IMO. However, if you have friends, anything is possible. Perhaps you could get a flat bed trailer of appropriate size. Then, day by day, you could scavenge your way to most of the materials you'd need to build it yourself. All while saving money for the land and finding the right deal. Experience the planning and building of the Tiny House on wheels and be more ready for the actual log house build. The tiny house doesn't have to be high end. But it could be built exactly the way that would suit the two of you, in the short term. Then, when you find the property, you'd have something better than a tent and far cheaper than other sturdier options to live in during your build. After the log house is finished, you'd have something unique to offer to temporary guests.

One caveat, make absolutely sure there are very plentiful employment opportunities after your build is finished and need to create an income. However, if the land is paid for and the house is built out of your pocket and not by credit, your income needs will greatly decrease.

Look forward to sharing your progress.

[rckclmbr428]

The one kicker about employment opportunities is that it will be directly connected to the price of land and the finished value of your home.

[edkemper]

Smile, we have high dollar houses and some for $35K. But very few high paying jobs. However, getting a place on the cheaper side, and significantly lowering your monthly budget needs by getting out of the high priced city can still work out well. Once you get your place built and debt free, even short money goes alot further.

I'm retired and don't need to leave the property to make an income. However I am constantly surprised at how many options there are once you get into the neighborhood and getting friendly with the locals.

If I still had a strong back instead of just a weak mind, I still think I could support my family in alternative ways in this economy. Rural Country v Cities or nearby.

[SDP]

Snowflower, I've read the whole thread, and have a few options for you.

No one's mentioned a container yet. A 20'x8'x8' cargo container can be dropped on the land for around $2400, and shelter you while you work on it. A 40-foot container is not quite twice that. it can be finished out for under $1000 in materials including a kitchen sink, toilet, shower, and water heater. Also, in many jurisdictions, if it has no foundation set in the ground or posts sunk into the ground, it's not a house, so a whole batch of laws don't apply.

With a container on site, if you set up solar electricity and solar-primary/sun-assisted hot water, you have lights, cooking, refrigeration, and showers in the first few days. A decent solar power system will set you back about four grand, like the Sun Direct Power 4K, and it's guaranteed for life. Solar hot water with electric assist is vastly cheaper; I set up mine on the RV for under $250 for a ten gallon tank, and it almost never used any electricity, even in winter. With those bits handled, four walls, and a roof, just about all the considerations involved in living rough go away, and it's just living ugly until you get studs and sheetrock up inside the container to make it a nice house.

Another container can become a garage with a workshop; every $2400 adds 160 sq' to the premises, and the two 75-watt bulbs necessary to light them don't entail huge additions to your solar power system. Railroad companies give away used railroad ties for free, so you can set up a good foundation for your containers before they're delivered.

The refrigerator could have its back exposed to the outdoors, at least on the freezer portion, so that the winter is helping you keep food cold and reducing electricity needs. A wood stove will roast it; use a small one, or build small fires. For sewage, I keep reading about the expense of septic systems, because no one here knows about Marine Sanitation Devices that have been in common use on the water for decades. A small one will process the sewage from four adults and put out clear, disinfected water, which is perfectly legal to dump anywhere, and they cost around $4K. No, they are not required to be in a boat to function.

A solar power system sized for your needs goes on the roof; we offer them in any size you like, modified or pure sine, military/marine hardened, if that's your thing.

if there's a well on property, you need a water tank, and those are a buck a gallon: 500 gallon tank is $500, and so on. Your pump doesn't need to run full time, just enough to top off the tank every day from the well, and pressurizing the tank is the expensive way to do it. One 100-watt solar panel will give you about 150 gallons a day, depending on how deep your well is. That's five times what I used in my RV, and I took Navy showers every day: no stinky-boy here. Use a 12v water pump of the sort they install in RVs for household plumbing pressure; they're under $100, and don't run until you open a tap. A ten-gallon water heater will give you two Navy showers a day plus plenty to wash dishes and so on, and costs about $150. If power's short, put the water heater on a timer, so it only runs once or twice a day.

If you have a creek to draw water out of, build a sand filter to run the water through before you use it. If the water's downstream of farmland, run the water through two or three sand filters before you use it; they're cheap and easy to build, and have a layer of beneficial bacteria in the sand that pulls out all the bio-gunk in the water before passing it on. They're also pretty good for chemical pollution, but only in small quantities, so if it's nasty water, get a commercial filter. Even rainwater caught off the roof should go through a sand filter; don't mess with water problems.

Once the container's homey and equipped and comfy, you could have another dropped at right angles to it, build a roof over and a floor under the common area, and start expanding. You could also start building a log home on property, which would be much prettier, but time seemed to be at a premium in your discussion so far.

A simpler option is to build a log roof coming off each side of the container, and a floor under those roofs, then walls around the floors, and you've just tripled the space available, in a log-home look, and almost completely hidden the container. There are very nice container homes, but I've always thought a container should never be more than the core of a home, not the whole thing.

Just some thoughts to help you with your planning. What you want to do can be started easier and cheaper than you may have thought, and you can get yourself into a comfortable enough situation that you can work for years on getting it exactly how you want it, without suffering while you do it.

Cheers.

[allen84]

Some good info there. Before you even think about buying a shipping container, google "container rain". Proper insulation and ventilation is a must. Don't think you want anything to do with the flooring that they are made with either, not in a living space.

[misplayed-hand]

I would google precast concrete drain pipe or storm shelters. If you have a manufacturer nearby it may offer a superior shelter at a competitive price.

[project]

I just saw someone selling a mobile home in my area for $1000 and you come get it. It was a 1997 14x80 that came with the property and new owners wanted it gone. I know this isn't in your area but it's just an example of what can be found once you really start looking.