I'm hoping logs come much cheaper than this? [Archive] - Log Home Builders Association Forums

loghousenut

03-07-2016, 11:11 AM

I traded labor (thinning 50 acres) for my logs. They were big, ugly Ponderosa Pines and we really like them. Had to pay to haul them 3 hours to my place. Next time I think I'll just find some closer, really pretty, Doug Fir or Cedar and pay market price for them.

A lot depends on location and how much chasing loggers you do. In the end, it'll cost whatever you can make it cost and it'll be a bargain even if you pay too much. It is exactly the same as any other part of the build... You just do it and pay as you go and somehow you avoid bankruptcy and nobody starves. The Grandkids will wonder how you did it and think you are some kinda hero or something.

rocklock

03-07-2016, 11:39 AM

The logs that you linked to are about 50% higher than I expected...
I believe they are talking tops... all real log people understand this.
You need to find where they get their logs...
I paid $200 bucks for a 12 inch 40 foot log... Which I believe is the ideal size.
The really low prices for logs comes from someone that does not value them like the government bug killed or fire killed logs.
My logs were from a tree farm where they really like logs, hence I paid $925 for a 1000 board feet...

OBTW, one member used bug killed logs and they were great!

rreidnauer

03-07-2016, 01:05 PM

You're doing what's called, "thinking inside the box." Want to guess what you should be doing?

etd66ss

03-07-2016, 03:03 PM

You're doing what's called, "thinking inside the box." Want to guess what you should be doing?

Yeah I know. I have felled over 1000 trees myself at my land, I know what logging involves. I think I'd prefer to have a truck drop them off, but not if it will cost me what's on that website.

I guess I am confused by the Aker Woods Co. answer to my inquiry. I asked for the price on 120 logs, 38ft long, 12in min on the small end. This is what I got back: "Those are very big logs. It will take six trips to haul them, and I can quote them at $3375 per load. "

That totals $20,250 for all the logs delivered. Yet when I use the prices on the website, I am getting $39,960 before shipping costs. So, somewhat confused.

What I would like to pay for all the logs I need is under $10,000, but maybe I'm dreaming.

rreidnauer

03-07-2016, 03:39 PM

I don't think you're dreaming. I personally know one member who got his for under $7k. I'm still looking myself, budgeted $15k, but of course, hoping for under $10k.

etd66ss

03-07-2016, 03:54 PM

Ok, haha, that $20,500 was just for the shipping. Time to start looking outside the box I suppose...

rreidnauer

03-07-2016, 04:21 PM

Wow!!!!!!!

rocklock

03-07-2016, 04:39 PM

120 logs, 38ft long, 12in min on the small end. This is what I got back: "Those are very big logs. It will take six trips to haul them, and I can quote them at $3375 per load. "
What I would like to pay for all the logs I need is under $10,000, but maybe I'm dreaming.

6 trips for 120 -12" logs sounds a bought right. My logs were mostly 10 and 11's and I got 25 logs on each truck. I also paid $300 buck to haul them approx. 50 miles.

Read up an Scribner method of getting board feet from logs. If I remember correctly, a 12 inch top, 40 feet long will yield 200 board feet. At $925 per (thousand), I paid $216. If I built my home with 12" tops I would have used 52 logs or $11,232.

My log stack had 54 wall logs, 2 cap logs, 1 ridge pole and 3 girder logs or 60 logs. If I were building with 12" logs the number would have been 46 +2 + 1 + 3 = 52.

thoner7

03-07-2016, 05:39 PM

Just saw you are near Niagara Falls. I wonder if it would make any sense for a bunch of the east coast members to haul in some big logs by train. Maybe some big Cypress from the Carolinas or something.

thoner7

03-07-2016, 05:40 PM

I routinely pay $200-250 a log for 40 logs with a 14" top and 20"+ bottom for my builds

Any idea what the loggers pay the landowners for those trees? I have a potential lead where I would buy them from a landowner then pay a logger to get them to my land.

rckclmbr428

03-07-2016, 06:51 PM

Stumpage rates vary by area and species, check with the local forester

panderson03

03-08-2016, 08:35 AM

we paid $2 per foot. each of our 40 ft logs was $80. you can do better!

etd66ss

03-08-2016, 09:43 AM

we paid $2 per foot. each of our 40 ft logs was $80. you can do better!

How did you manage that?

panderson03

03-08-2016, 10:07 AM

put ads in the local community newspapers. found a guy who used his logs to make and sell firewood.

etd66ss

03-08-2016, 10:11 AM

put ads in the local community newspapers. found a guy who used his logs to make and sell firewood.

May I ask what species you used?

panderson03

03-09-2016, 10:22 AM

we used red pine

etd66ss

03-09-2016, 10:46 AM

we used red pine

Ok, thanks. Red pine is not generally used for firewood around here on account of chimney fires. It works in outdoor burners though :) I had quite a few red pine that blew over on my lot, they rotted very fast, have to get the bark off of those quick.

rreidnauer

03-09-2016, 10:57 AM

Ok, thanks. Red pine is not generally used for firewood around here on account of chimney fires. It works in outdoor burners though :) I had quite a few red pine that blew over on my lot, they rotted very fast, have to get the bark off of those quick.
....and yet, I've seen red pine with bark on racks for three years and no issues with rot.

Really. Take the class.

etd66ss

03-09-2016, 11:50 AM

....and yet, I've seen red pine with bark on racks for three years and no issues with rot.

Really. Take the class.

Maybe those were in a dryer climate??? I guess I'll stop asking questions if the only answer I get is to take the class.

edkemper

03-09-2016, 01:00 PM

I think one of the hardest things to understand is the value of a log to the mill, or the lumber harvester. The lumber company bids far less than you think. Add all the labor to get it into lumber is when the prices go sky high.

I bought local Western Red Cedar. I paid an average of $100 per minimum 14" top, no less than 32' length. 5 self loader logging truck deliveries (approximately 100-110 logs) included. My logger neighbor who did not supply the deliveries, still made a profit.

$100 per 32'x14" tops. That includes the bid by the lumber company to get the contract, the labor to fell the tree, to limb the log, to buck the log to length, to haul it to the landing and to load the trucks. Don't forget the cost for the truck to haul it to my place. Everyone along the journey made a profit on each one of my logs.

I'm betting they did better off me than they would have if they had sent the same logs to the mill.

rreidnauer

03-09-2016, 01:05 PM

I would definitely not call Northeast Pennsylvania dry climate.

Not trying to be snooty. There really is a reason for stressing to take the class. It fills in all the details you may never think to ask, and prevent you from potentially costly mistakes. Those who have taken the class, and suggest to others to go, is because they strongly believe it is that important and of value. No members are compensated by having others go. There is nothing in it for them other than helping someone get steered down the right path.

Perhaps you come from an environment where people can't be trusted, and hearing such talk of people helping other people just for the sake of doing it, is too much to believe, and if that's the case, I truly feel for you. I really hope you will come to see that, when something is being suggested, it is for genuine and sincere reasons.

etd66ss

03-09-2016, 02:45 PM

I would definitely not call Northeast Pennsylvania dry climate.

I guess I wouldn't either.

Perhaps you come from an environment where people can't be trusted, and hearing such talk of people helping other people just for the sake of doing it, is too much to believe, and if that's the case, I truly feel for you.

Condescending much?

But I guess that's my point, "go take the class", in my view isn't all that helpful atm, it smacks of when you take the class they ask you not to divulge what you have learned so they can have better attendance in the future. But yes, maybe I'm just too skeptical.

I'm trying to do research/due diligence, that likely will culminate with taking the class. I definitely would like to take the class, maybe in Sept if they have one. However, in the meantime I still have questions. I guess I can understand you guys get sick of newbies asking the same questions over and over. When I come across that on the internet and I get annoyed, I just don't respond. I have been an admin of forums before, so I do get how annoying newbie questions can be. So yeah, I am probably a pretty annoying newbie.

rreidnauer

03-09-2016, 04:51 PM

It was not meant to be condescending. I am quite sincere. You yourself have posted, ". . . and I am getting an uneasy feeling of secrecy about the whole deal..." which is primarily why you received that statement from me.

I've explained the situation as best possible. I have no obligation to win over your heart. There is nothing more I can do for you.

edkemper

03-09-2016, 05:07 PM

Well, look at it this way, member's don't divulge everything about building our way. Partially because if we did that with the public, we wouldn't have time to get our work done. Really, that is part of the problem.

Secondly, the class is just a taste of the details. It is also the golden key. The golden key is like the secret handshake. It gat's you to the Member's side of this site. That is where every single one of us find the details and the more than the normal access to the people with the details and advice on the exactly how to's on every detail.

I hope you understand you will not get every detail during the class. There just isn't enough time to answer every question from every attendee and still be able to teach the class. Also, there are people on the members side that are (meant as no insult) possible more expert on some details than the teachers of the class. Plus, on the members side, you get access to those in the beginning, middle or toward the end of their own build.

Also, don't worry. Every one of us probably wondered, before the class, whether we were wasting our time and money on a scam. Everyone on the other side has gone through the class and have gone far beyond by gaining access to the members side.

allen84

03-09-2016, 06:12 PM

Quote Originally Posted by panderson03 View Post

we paid $2 per foot. each of our 40 ft logs was $80. you can do better!

How did you manage that?

The mill is a great place to sell logs but not to buy them. Talk to people. I've found loggers are hard to reach, or the right ones are anyways (they shouldn't be able to hear their phone). Farmers and oldtimers are great people to get to know and can often lead you in the right direction. Also when negotiating price on anything I almost try to take on the slimy used car salesman gimmicks. You walk in their door, nevermind your budget... how much can you pay per month? There is many ways to look at price, some look more optimistic than others.

As far as building and the class... LHBA seems secretive because it is kind of like a club, almost a secret society. It's an association but not a sham. I was a little skeptical at first too. If you do your homework, there is at least one book out there that goes into a little detail on the method. But I don't think any book out there could offer the wealth of info and support that comes from being an LHBA member. For me, I thought it was money well spent.

BigD

03-09-2016, 08:06 PM

Hi etd66ss,
Honestly, I don't know if the 'free' log thing exists or not. In class we are taught about some avenues to get cheap logs. Some of that information a person could get from just doing their own research and being a smart little boy (condescending....couldn't help it, hehe). I think it is possible to get very cheap logs, and some members have been able to take advantage of that. Other members have paid through the nose for logs....I think the majority of members try and find the best deal they can on logs and roll with it.

If the sole reason for taking the class is to find out how to get free logs....probably not a good use of money. If you are REALLY interested in building a log home, then taking the class makes sense because the wealth of information you will get far outweighs the the class fee.
Having said that, I haven't build my log home yet so I am still naive and energetic. Talk to me in a couple of years when my will is broken and I have turned to the bottle for strength. :)

Hope that helps....hope you take the class and have the same type of experience that I had.

Mosseyme

03-10-2016, 09:01 AM

I guess I am the exception to the rule here because I was looking for some kind of on DIY log home building. We were already logging our place due to our Hemlocks dying y. We had thousand of them and we would have had to just pack up and walk away for 10-20 years while they died and fell or fell them ourselves. I found only 2 sites online of people doing it themselves. Then I came across the LHBA. It took me about 1 hour of reading to realize this was what I was looking for. I guess I am too trusting or naive but I was right this is what we needed. We would have built a log cabin one way or another but lots and lots of mistakes. I gave up my long awaited trip to Ireland for our 40th anniversary for this class and it was a bargain.
For me the main reason to not give to much detail is the 22 hours of info we were given. Think about it. We chose a certain way of doing our foundation so I focus on that but there are several other ways. We chose a certain way of stacking our logs but there are others. I don't remember all the details of the different ways of doing everything and I would not want to give enough to make someone think they had all they needed to go build one of these. Most of it is not rocket science but details are important, and reasons are important. Repeat there are 22 hours of details.
BTW: We are in or mid 60's and are doing this with a little help from family and friends. Logs are stacked and roof is on. Lots to do but it will get done.

dgrover13

03-10-2016, 05:25 PM

I have been on this forum for many months and have followed the threads. I am gearing up myself to take on this huge project of BYOC(Build your own cabin).

This is by far the best thread I have seen discussing the class and real benefits of taking. Also discussing the 'just take the class' response that often gets used so often by members of the forum.

I plan to take the class myself and this thread help me decide this. However, I think the LHBA could serve itself better if they dropped the use of that phrase. Regardless of the context - its going to strike many people the wrong way.

There is so much value to offer in the class - there is no other place to obtain the documentation of the Skip Ellsworth butt and pass method. The members only section makes sense - because thats for people who have committed and made the decision to build (or at least take a significant step towards building).

I would think there are many reasonable people who turn away with the wrong impressions of the LHBA. I have seen that bias on other log building forums.

just my 2 cents`

rocklock

03-10-2016, 06:55 PM

reasonable people who turn away with the wrong impressions of the LHBA.
I have seen that bias on other log building forums.

Can a phrase cause the wrong impression? I don't know but they always have the option to ask questions. Is there another phrase to use?

I have been on several other forums. Still am. Many of those forums just can't believe what we do. A student that goes to a two day class and be able the build a log home --- impossible. In another class they have a whole day on ax sharpening...

We don't pull any punches. Building a log home is just plane hard work. We are a strange bred. We make stuff.

eagle

03-10-2016, 07:42 PM

A student that goes to a two day class and be able the build a log home --- impossible. In another class they have a whole day on ax sharpening...

We don't pull any punches. Building a log home is just plane hard work. We are a strange bred. We make stuff.
I thought it was odd to be able to learn the build in 2 days, however, after taking the class I came away knowing I could do it. It was actually simpler than I thought but knew it would be hard work. All meat and no fluff like ax sharpening.

Mosseyme

03-10-2016, 08:14 PM

I know the "take the class" sounds a bit like a mantra or something but it seems to me that in many if not most cases someone answers the question asked in some way and then follow with "take the class" for the details so to speak.

rreidnauer

03-11-2016, 04:39 AM

. However, I think the LHBA could serve itself better if they dropped the use of that phrase. Regardless of the context - its going to strike many people the wrong way.

You are missing two points. First, LHBA itself doesn't say, "just take the class." It's the students who have gone to experience it for themselves, and know the immense value it holds. Second, LHBA has no need to better serve itself. Classes always sell out, and they are larger than they've ever been. Personally, I believe the way it is, tends to weed out the uncommitted and the "takers", leaving a great community of people.

Instead of being put off by the statement, perhaps asking yourself why is it being suggested so much, would be the wiser decision.

LowKey

03-11-2016, 07:13 AM

I attended the class this past February.
In order for me to attend I had to fly almost 8000 miles which took about 38 hours counting the layovers, co-ordinate and buy a ticket for my wife to fly to Vegas from Florida, then the usual hotel room and board. Oh, and suck up the lost wages while I was gone.
Undergoing all that bother got me 72 hours in Vegas.
Of that 72 hours I chose to spend 24 of them in the LHBA class, 24 hours that I could have spent with my wife who I had not seen in 6 months and who I won't see again for another 4 months.
When the class was over I had to spend another 38 hours cramped in economy flying back to work.

And it was worth every penny of it!

The class teaches you the basics, a foundation to build on with additional learning through the members side of this site. The members side here is not like the members side of many other websites. There are no keyboard commandos, no snarky jerks telling you you're doing it wrong and that you can't do it. When you come here with questions people, knowledgeable people, take time to help you work through your problem. You get real options and real answers, Members actually do travel to help each other with their builds, that's not BS smoke and mirror claims trying to sell you on the class.
Having to attend the class first to become a member weeds out people who aren't serious, so that the members side is full of those who have built or are actually going to build instead of people who will only talk about building but never take things further than idle chatter. Nothing wrong with having pipe dreams, but those of us on the members side are focused on getting our homes built and helping other members build theirs. The signal to noise ratio would be horrible if the need to physically attend class didn't weed out people who'll never get up the gumption to really start building.

The take the class mantra isn't about trying to get you to plunk down the course fee. It's asking you to demonstrate that you are serious about doing this, that you're willing to commit the time and money to attend...because if you can't be bothered to sacrifice two days of your time and the money to attend the course why in the world would anyone think that you're going to be up to making the sacrifices of time and money to build your own home with your own two hands? Anyone can do it, but it's not going to be easy. You will be tired. You will be sore You're going to break a sweat. You may even break a nail. If you can't get up the determination to attend the class you would likely give up after starting to build. We want to focus on people who won't give up.

John W

03-11-2016, 08:32 AM

On the 'just take the class' mantra. I've been reading this forum for five years, got an account in 2011. Class attendance for me was just this past Feb. On the public side, you can learn the concepts. Butt and pass. Pier foundations (preferred by DIY, but you can do anything if done properly). Pinned logs. Chinking. A little about roofing. At the class, you get the DETAILS. Spacing on pins, piers and rafters. The mix ratio of the LHBA chinking. How to lift logs. How much insulation in the roof. Basically, the details on foundation, walls, roof and floors. And then, yes, access to the member's forum and all the help that provides.
On the log issue. There are ways to get 'free' logs, if you're very fortunate. But the reality is, even free logs must be transported to your build site, and transporting logs isn't cheap. Even on that, there are a few tips given in class to reduce that cost.

TAB

03-11-2016, 08:36 AM

I'll add that you will most likely NOT be able to go straight to the mountain after class and have the knowledge necessary to build a cabin. But you WILL have the resources necessary, and a large group of friends ready to cheer on each and every milestone of your build, as well as ready to answer all of the parts that you still can't quite figure out yourself. They recommended in class that you should wait about 2 years from the time you take the class to start your build. That time is best spent acquiring tools, finalizing, then re-finalizing build plans, and learning. The learning is the fun part, since you can watch others as they build and share lessons learned as they progress. (More pics please!)

From somebody that is constantly on this site, but doesn't participate very often, those that do participate are a blessing, and I am extremely grateful for them. Take the class...LOL

MPeterson1020

03-11-2016, 09:34 AM

You may even break a nail. .

No one told me that! I may have to reconsider building my home. :) But honestly, I read at least 75% of the non member posts before going to class and I thought I knew quite a bit. I wanted to go JUST to get access to the member side! :) And I didn't know as much as I thought I knew and I learned a lot IN class AND on the members side. I still learn every day. I spent most nights reading posts on stuff related to the part of the build I am in currently.(which is planning and foundation). I got tired of hearing "take the class" but only because I could not get to the next one and had to wait longer. We spent about a half months wages between class and food and flying, but I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Mosseyme

03-11-2016, 09:40 AM

loghousenut

03-11-2016, 09:40 AM

This won't help you folks who are on the fence, but for those of us who have access to both sides of this forum, take a look back through the list of members who were prolific posters on the non-members side before they took the class. It amazes me how much more productive their questions are the week after class.

Not saying that they didn't post great questions before class. Just saying that, once they are on the same page as the rest of the members, they have questions about things that will build a log home. Things they will actually use in the next 5 years.

Yes, as lurkers, they are bouncing around in the stantion trying to find a way to get out there on the track of life and satisfy their log home desires. But as newbies they take a few baby steps backward, mosey around the starting gate, and slowly, methodically, they plod along, scheming and planning the thing that will really happen.

They don't wonder what tools to look for, but instead they have questions about those tools and they wonder if a particular Craigslist offer is a steal or not. They are looking at a particular chunk of land and wonder about its suitability for a 35x35. They have questions about a 35x35 that are not "Why not build a 20x40?. They ask about "scree" (you'll understand everything once you are on the members side).

I don't know about the rest of you, but I spend an hour or so every day on the members side. It's a fun hobby and, while it may not be productive for the rest of you, I don't feel like it is a tremendous waste of my time. The non members side is fun too but it is almost an afterthought and I am usually getting anxious to fire up the chainsaw, so I get a bit shortsighted with my comments.

Oddly, "take the class" seems like an appropriate answer from where I sit. If you were my nephew, and came to me all scrambled up about a fancy kit house builder or something out of a glossy magazine, I'd just sign you up, send a check, and force you on the airplane. You're not my nephew. Count your blessings for that. I'll still loan you a tool or two and come help you stack walls once you take the class.

MPeterson1020

03-11-2016, 09:49 AM

It is interesting to me that a number of the members promoting "take the class" right now are folks that just a short time ago were on the other side, a little on the fence, wondering about all this "take the class" stuff. The join date of each person is when they first joined the public forum I think.

The join date on mine is when I first started posting on the non member side. We didn't take the class till September 2015. I had over a year of hearing "take the class". :) But it was still worth it.

loghousenut

03-11-2016, 10:11 AM

Quick story....

A couple years ago I corresponded with some nice folks who were wondering about this LHBA thing. They lived a long way off but were looking to relocate here in sunny southern Oregon. I said, "Yup, stop in and take tour of our place and I have a converted bus you can stay in while you are finding a place to live."

They, and we, seemed to have different ideas about how it was all going to work out. They thought I should put him to work, teach, answer infinite questions about infinite ways to do this thing and get them started on their log home journey.

I answered half an infinite number of questions and said from the start that he could lend an occasional hand on our build only after they took the LHBA class. I know I could have set him to most any task on the place and got good work out of him but it was so different from past experiences when members have stopped in. His questions and ideas were constantly garnering answers from me that seemed negative instead of positive. I don't want to spend my time talking someone out of something that I think is probably a poor idea. There are REAL reasons to do this thing the LHBA way and as soon as I answer one "why not" question, it leads to another. Once a person has been to class, if they get all fired up about this thing they ask a different kinduva question.

When we were stacking our lower wall logs we had a visit from 18 year old Nathan (made up name but true story) who had taken the class with his Mother. He was off to college in a far off state and wanted to grease his hands on a real LHBA build. Had him for a week or so and it was nothing but learning for him and us. Everything we talked about was either concerning this particular style of building, or about life and women. We all knew what we were talking about except for the women thing. I want to take that class. When we were looking for the next log, he knew why we looked in the log catalog and he knew why C-9 was the wrong log til we got three or four courses higher. He just got it. He was no smarter that those folks who later stopped for awhile in the bus... heck he was just a college kid. But Nathan was fun and easy to work with and I had a feeling that anything he got from our build would really stick with him.

I took the class from Skip before a lot of you folks were born. I remember it like it was yesterday. It changed me and it changed my life. It changed Nathan's life. It was obvious to the rest of us. I wish I had just wrote the check and grabbed that other guy by the neck and shoved him on the airplane... It woulda changed his life. He needed it. They have moved on.

Take the class (I mean this from the bottom of my heart. Please do not be offended)

John W

03-11-2016, 11:01 AM

And you get to discuss things with like-minded people. Then LHN says, 'You'll fit in here just fine.' And you really know you belong when he says, 'Yeah, that's a nice chainsaw, my 10 yr old granddaughter has one just like it for her popsicle stick craft projects.' Or words to that effect. (an almost true story)

LowKey

03-11-2016, 01:06 PM

They ask about "scree" (you'll understand everything once you are on the members side).

That would be me.
Just to be clear, I hated hearing "just take the class" as much, if not more, than anyone else out there.
I had paid the class tuition. I had paid my plane tickets. I had paid for my room and board at the hotel. I just had to kill time until the class date rolled around....and they still wouldn't spill the beans.
Dammit.

I even explained that I have only 30 days each year that I can come back into the US to work on my place, and that my place is very much off the beaten path....that I need to figure out NOW what I'd need months down the road so that I could arrange to have it delivered in time.
Still, all that I got was sympathetic noises and "take the class". :mad:

Take the class. Once you've done it you'll be "in". It's not that the members hate everyone else, it's that they want to be able to focus on the people who will really take a swing at this. Attending the class is just demonstrating that you're serious. Once you've done that people are downright eager to help you.

Heck...if you attend the class I'll feed you crab and shrimp while I let you practice debarking logs at my place. Yup, free seafood and the opportunity to practice the skills you'll need to build you own home. Just take the darn class so we know you're serious and so that we don't have to explain for the umpteenth time any of the basic principles of a but and pass log home. ;)

Blondie

03-11-2016, 05:38 PM

Low key,

I followed the blog for years. I read everything in the library. I studied every photograph. I made drawings of what I believed was happening. I bugged Rocklock. Finally, finally I took the class. I sat there on that Saturday morning with a chip on my shoulder and prove it to me attitude. Within ten minutes I had an " oh" spreAding across my face and a large slice of humble pie to be consumed. Yup take the class
. I hated hearing that and now I say it, often.

Blondie

loghousenut

03-11-2016, 07:57 PM

That would be me.
Just to be clear, I hated hearing "just take the class" as much, if not more, than anyone else out there.
I had paid the class tuition. I had paid my plane tickets. I had paid for my room and board at the hotel. I just had to kill time until the class date rolled around....and they still wouldn't spill the beans.
Dammit.

I even explained that I have only 30 days each year that I can come back into the US to work on my place, and that my place is very much off the beaten path....that I need to figure out NOW what I'd need months down the road so that I could arrange to have it delivered in time.
Still, all that I got was sympathetic noises and "take the class". :mad:

Take the class. Once you've done it you'll be "in". It's not that the members hate everyone else, it's that they want to be able to focus on the people who will really take a swing at this. Attending the class is just demonstrating that you're serious. Once you've done that people are downright eager to help you.

Heck...if you attend the class I'll feed you crab and shrimp while I let you practice debarking logs at my place. Yup, free seafood and the opportunity to practice the skills you'll need to build you own home. Just take the darn class so we know you're serious and so that we don't have to explain for the umpteenth time any of the basic principles of a but and pass log home. ;)

LowKey, I was hoping you would chime in. Please forgive me if I ever accidentally said "take the class" to you.

Might I say that you became a completely different forum personality after class. I am sssoooooooo darned glad that we didn't chase you off with our impoliteness.

Upers

03-11-2016, 08:13 PM

I paid $100 per log 13" top 19" butt and 41' long

Mosseyme

03-11-2016, 08:15 PM

LowKey

03-11-2016, 11:20 PM

I agree with the nut about you LowKey, we could see that potential and we wanted it on the other side and did not want to run you off but you did have a tiny bit of a chip to start with and it is kinda understandable with all the difficulty you have planned ahead of you..

;)
Some of that was the result of dealing with the kissing cousins of those "helpful" folks who want to tell LHBA members how they're building a log home incorrectly (or that it can't be done) over the last decade as I explored different construction methods*.
You can't do that" or "You don't want that" is different from "You can do that but it will cause X,y, and z issues" Some of the "chip" I may have had can be attributed to hearing those first two far to many times elsewhere over the years. Thankfully none of you did that!

*I wasn't always looking at building a log home, for example for the longest time I was planning on an RC underground house but when I bought land in a rain forest in an island where concrete costs more than double what it does on the mainland I thought it might be a good idea to explore the possibility of using all those big sticks that poke out of the ground on the island.

LowKey

03-11-2016, 11:24 PM

LowKey, I was hoping you would chime in. Please forgive me if I ever accidentally said "take the class" to you.

Might I say that you became a completely different forum personality after class. I am sssoooooooo darned glad that we didn't chase you off with our impoliteness.

No worries.
My irritation with the mantra was simply die to me having already set up everything to attend the class. "Take the class" is a bit....irksome......when you're just killing time waiting for the class date to roll around and are working under time constraints.

etd66ss

03-12-2016, 05:17 AM

I paid $100 per log 13" top 19" butt and 41' long

What species?

I talked to a logger yesterday, here is what he had to say:

"Cedar doesn't grow any where near that size, oak is way too heavy for
your project. White pine we have, but if we can even find any that
length, the large end would be twice as big as the small, because of the
extreme taper. Larch or Red pine would be much better choices as they do
not taper as much."

LowKey

03-12-2016, 05:43 AM

What species?

I talked to a logger yesterday, here is what he had to say:

Find a new logger.

etd66ss

03-12-2016, 06:15 AM

Has anyone been able to find tree taper (stem profile) charts for various species? Is tree taper mainly a function of species, or is it more of a function of the conditions in which the tree grew? And when building a butt & pass log home, how much does taper really matter?

loghousenut

03-12-2016, 08:30 AM

Taper is not an issue. Some species, like cedar and cypress, are prone to swelled butts and taper but mostly it is growing conditions that dictate taper. Those big ole straight Doug Fir up in western Washington, that look like drill pipes, grew close together and had to fight for every photon of sunlight. They grew straight up and have no taper. Contrast that with Doug Fir that are planted in a park, all 35 feet apart, and they will be full of limbs most of the way up and possess extreme taper.

If you want to build a notched, scribed log home, taper makes it much more difficult. There will be some logs that need to be nearly cut in two at the notch.

No notches makes the LHBA system fairly forgiving, so taper is just an aesthetic issue. Personally I don't care much about aesthetics as long as it looks right... and it does look right.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/P1030238_zpsqmbj33lu.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/loghousenut/media/P1030238_zpsqmbj33lu.jpg.html)

PS... More photos on the members side.

just funnin'... couldn't help myself

etd66ss

03-12-2016, 08:48 AM

Thanks loghousenut

This morning I made a species comparison/selection chart to help me decide what kind of logs it makes sense to go after in my neck of the woods. I figured I'd share it, maybe it will help others in the Northeast.

Here it is: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_X5nwOb38dmY1JPTmVzQzVjM2M/view?usp=sharing

allen84

03-12-2016, 05:54 PM

Find a new logger.

I thought the same thing when I saw that this morning but didn't have time to respond. Loggers should be like good soldiers and go do what they are told, not try to sell you what they think you need. You may have also asked the right questions the wrong way, you have to speak their language or they'll be head scratching. Taper is not an issue with this build method. I like the taper and the whole log thing.

edkemper

03-12-2016, 06:07 PM

This morning I made a species comparison/selection chart to help me decide what kind of logs it makes sense to go after in my neck of the woods. I figured I'd share it, maybe it will help others in the Northeast.

Or you can look at it this way, it sort of doesn't matter unless you're trying to use multiple species.

If it's a species that 1" in 10' or a species that is 3" in 10'. Within the species, it's normally about the same, tree to tree. Since they are all sort of the same, whatever species you choose will come out right.

I think that came out right.

etd66ss

03-12-2016, 06:44 PM

Or you can look at it this way, it sort of doesn't matter unless you're trying to use multiple species.

If it's a species that 1" in 10' or a species that is 3" in 10'. Within the species, it's normally about the same, tree to tree. Since they are all sort of the same, whatever species you choose will come out right.

I think that came out right.

When I look at all the data, I think I want the White Pine. Luckily, that should be easier to acquire around here than White Oak.

Mosseyme

03-13-2016, 12:00 AM

To each his own, personally the more character a log has the better. The big flared butt ends are really cool and lots of knots are really cool and lots of taper is really cool and curved logs are really cool as long as you can straighten them enough to use them. We have them all and nice great big wide gaps to chink [more insulation]. It is all good. This is the beauty of the LHBA style. Long straight low taper might be a little less work and can be really beautiful but I get bored easily and having every log be quite different from the one before is a wonderful challenge.

eagle

03-13-2016, 08:05 AM

etd66ss

03-13-2016, 08:11 AM

etd66ss

03-14-2016, 01:15 PM

I got another reply from a logger when I inquired about house logs:
In all honesty your plan for using such long logs doesn't sound wise. I can' t imagine having a log in the wall that's twice as big from one end to the other. In addition, you would be wasting your money to buy them from us, the trucking charge would be outrageous.

Not having much luck with loggers so far...

LowKey

03-14-2016, 02:10 PM

I got another reply from a logger when I inquired about house logs:

Not having much luck with loggers so far...

As has been said before, loggers should be like good soldier s and simply follow orders....they aren't there to tell you what <they think> you should be doing. I don't want ot sound negative, but do keep in mind they may try to steer you towards whatever has the highest profit margin for them, not what is best for you.

At this point you might want to consider a consulting forester.

etd66ss

03-14-2016, 03:17 PM

At this point you might want to consider a consulting forester.

I have a few calls/emails in, no bites yet. I think getting the right logs may be the hardest part of this whole deal...

allen84

03-14-2016, 04:27 PM

I like want ads... And I'm kind of OCD about key words, so people can find me in a search. Farm and garden section of craigslist might be a good place to put one. You'll greatly improve your odds of finding the right guy if he has a way to find you.

allen84

03-14-2016, 04:48 PM

Also, I think I said it before in some way... Old people, locals and farmers are great people to talk to about anything. My Dad always told me if you want to find something out or find out about someone, just ask them the questions. There is nothing people like to talk about more than themselves and whatever they know that you don't know.

mudflap

03-14-2016, 09:35 PM

I was just about to say this. Just took the class- a 2/14/16 graduate. Studied all the other methods- I almost signed up for the 2 week course in Montana. Then I found LHBA. Researched it for years- like 10, at least. Learned about how to get logs for cheap ($0.10 or so) before taking the class, through careful research. Been on my share of forums. THIS one takes the cake. They are even nicer than the people I go to church with. It's unbelievable how nice and helpful these folks are. I wrote notes in the margins of my workbook from the class- I probably have about 100 pages of notes from my 22 hours in class. Those notes are Pure gold, in my opinion. They are not teaching you how to build a log cabin- they are teaching you a completely different lifestyle. Completely transformative. My opinion only.

etd66ss

03-15-2016, 02:40 AM

Learned about how to get logs for cheap ($0.10 or so) before taking the class, through careful research.

Is this secret knowledge?

panderson03

03-15-2016, 06:38 AM

Been on my share of forums. THIS one takes the cake. They are even nicer than the people I go to church with. It's unbelievable how nice and helpful these folks are. .
that's quite a compliment, sir:)
glad you're one of the family

John W

03-15-2016, 11:26 AM

Or he's in the wrong church. :)

LowKey

03-15-2016, 12:57 PM

that's quite a compliment, sir:)
glad you're one of the family

I hazard a guess that folks truly interested in personal freedom are, generally speaking, also people who find it important to grant to others the respect that they would want given to them.
TANSTAAFL, after all. ;)

John W

03-16-2016, 10:50 AM

All right LowKey!! Somebody else quoting TANSTAAFL.

LowKey

03-16-2016, 11:01 AM

All right LowKey!! Somebody else quoting TANSTAAFL.

I'd find it hard to believe that only you and I would be the only ones to do so here on a site populated primarily by people interested in independence. I mean, really......the LHBA should have a brass cannon somewhere in it's logo.:cool:

LowKey

03-16-2016, 11:03 AM

Sorry, double-tap.

mudflap

03-16-2016, 11:51 AM

I just googled TANSTAAFL. :) . Yeah, I'm not looking for "free" as in "cheap", I'm looking for "free" as in "freedom". Thanks, LowKey, and panderson03

MPeterson1020

03-16-2016, 01:20 PM

I just googled TANSTAAFL. :)

:) Glad I wasn't the only one who Googled it. LOL

loghousenut

03-16-2016, 01:31 PM

I had to Google it, then I hadda Google LOL.

allen84

03-17-2016, 06:29 PM

I figured I'd at least wait until loghousenut admitted he googled it until I admitted I googled it too :D

mudflap

03-17-2016, 06:32 PM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160318/e04133bedc0c831ca8f111a220f606c6.jpg
But logs don't come much cheaper than this, do they? Right on my property, 22" bottom, 10" top, and about 40' long. I hope I can use them, because there's 80 more just like this one

Arrowman

03-17-2016, 06:35 PM

mudflap

03-17-2016, 06:36 PM

That's what I'm thinking. You guys & gals are my inspiration.

donjuedo

03-17-2016, 06:59 PM

Very nice log. If you have 80 more just like it, you'll be feeding 81 children!

It reminds me of the old Kenny Rogers' song, "You picked a fine time to leave me, Lucille". I heard the lyrics wrong from day 1, and thought he said, "400 children and a crop in the field, ..." and figured, "Of course she left!"

mudflap

03-17-2016, 07:05 PM

Yeah, now it's all about logistics: cut them down before he sells, or get going on the foundation and get a tarp / tent to keep my logs dry? I'm just gonna be thankful the good Lord grew them there.

rckclmbr428

03-17-2016, 07:52 PM

mudflap

03-17-2016, 08:10 PM

Yeah, well, you can only learn so much from YouTube. :) I'll do it in the next one!

Mosseyme

03-17-2016, 08:14 PM

Nice log. Looks like you have it covered. Let us hear from you when it is peeled and treated.

etd66ss

03-18-2016, 04:20 AM

I wish I had trees that size on my land, below is a pic of what happened to many of the nicer trees I had. I was a noob when I bought my land and didn't realize when I cleared the area for my house/ponds, the wind would decimate the evergreen section of the forest. I also knew nothing about seasoning the logs on a rack, I could have saved 100's of logs. Though, I think for the log home, my forest is about 15-20 years too young to supply the size logs I'd need.

http://i.imgur.com/kmRmAPq.png

dvb

03-18-2016, 07:47 AM

Education is expensive, no matter how you get it......

Mosseyme

03-18-2016, 05:32 PM

And to kick a dead dog, one more reason why we say it. The class is the cheapest big lesson a person can get on dozens of fronts.

Mosseyme

03-18-2016, 06:12 PM

Mudflap,
I don't think you can really appreciate what you have in your lap there just yet. I would cut them and get them racked up as fast a I could then come back and check the bark on a weekly basis. Right now the bark might come off pretty easy as it is spring. You do not want to let this opportunity slide by. Get yourself a cheap axel wiith wheels and tires even if you have to buy a $200 car from the junk yard.

BTW
There is nothing wrong with interesting trees. That kind of taper makes things a little bit harder but not so much if you do square. You might have to try to access 3 long straight White Pines or Tulip Poplar for your cap logs and RP or do a split RP or other some other interesting thing but you have got your house logs IMHO

One more thing Mudflap,
I admire the just do it thing more than most people do. It is how I have learned a lot of things through life, but-t-t, if you haven't done logging before, I beg you go get some experienced help. There are reason why it is always either 1 or 2 on the list of most dangerous jobs in the world. We did do our own logging in very difficult mountain forest but Gary has been logging since he was 16 yo doing it with his dad and that was 50 years ago. And it was still probably a really dumb thing to do. We still had a number of really close calls. One very large tree came down on the bulldozer blade and rocked it so hard it slammed me off the rollbar and nearly knocked me out. Another small one kicked back and knocked me down and pinned me down with the butt on my chest and so on.
Just at last Thanksgiving an 8 yo friend of my granddaughters was killed by a falling tree. Daddy and Granddaddy thought they had done everything right. They were pushing the tree with a machine as it was cut. It uprooted and twisted around and came down right at the corner of the house where the children were hiding behind killing the little girl and injuring her brother.
A tree is kinda like a horse, it has a mind of its own, you can persuade it to do what you want to most of the time but then there is that time it makes it's own choice. Get some help. Stay around for those cute kids there.

mudflap

03-18-2016, 06:23 PM

I get the feeling that I need to move on this quick. I have 40 usable trees, and the land next door has probably 100 more. Is there a forum sticky / post on skidding logs?

mudflap

03-18-2016, 06:53 PM

I found it.Thanks mossyme

Arrowman

03-18-2016, 08:52 PM

Finding logs is probably going to be the most frustrating part of my build. I had some many people back out on me or tell me no before I found one to say yes. After going through the last three months, I would never pass up what you have been offered Mudflap.

mudflap

03-18-2016, 09:00 PM

Words of wisdom. Thank you.

Mosseyme

03-18-2016, 09:24 PM

Dywane

06-07-2016, 08:18 PM

sorry posted wrong thread

allen84

06-07-2016, 09:39 PM

Mudflap,
If you didn't already, please read my edit above.

Also, all things being equal, I would get as many logs from the other land as possible and leave a few around the build. Shade is a good thing in these Southern states.

Just no large living trees too close to the foundation... We've been looking at a house that has some "foundation issues". Looks major but it seems mostly superficial to me (brick façade has some mortar cracks, foundation looks pretty solid). One of the most damaged/ already once repaired spots is due to a large tree root right at the surface of the soil. The tree is 6-10 feet from the corner of the house and over 12" diameter, very large surface roots.