Square vs Round ?

[marcusorillias]

This may be a redundant question, But I'll have a go at it anyway,
Yes, I'm new.

From what I have read here thus far, square timbers (Lumber) IE 10"x10" will not work with this system? my question, is simply Why?

my plan is to construct a 1200 sq. ft. "cabin" with square, milled by me green timbers. I'm sure there are personal opinions about this, but this is what I want to use.

My next question, Short logs? fro what I have seen here and read, most if not all use "full length" logs, Can this system be used to construct say out of 14' logs? say a 28' wall using 2x 14' logs?

[rckclmbr428]

Can it be done? Sure. Is it advisable? Not so much.

[Plumb Level]

Welcome Marcus. You just saved yourself a bunch of time by finding this site, because now you don't have to mill all those timbers! Just leave them round.

We build with full logs because flat on flat joints wick water in and they hold the water, resulting in rot.

As to a 28' long wall with a joint right in the middle...you would really have to reinforce that joint for the wall to be structurally sound. It could be done with a vertical log, but would be a lot of extra effort. Some on this site have used some shorter logs going from a corner to where a window or a door is. But you still must have some solid logs below and above the opening to tie the whole structure together.

You have probably read about the class, and I would recommend it even if you are still set on square timbers. You will learn many things in the class to incorporate into your build, and you might even change your mind about building with timbers. Regardless, the class tuition will be money well spent.

[marcusorillias]

Yes, Thank you, I have read about the class, and made inquiries for the one in Vegas this February. Like I mentioned, My preference is to mill the logs myself and build with square timbers, I plan on milling most of the other lumber needed.
However, My question stands, Why not square?

[Arrowman]

Yes, Thank you, I have read about the class, and made inquiries for the one in Vegas this February. Like I mentioned, My preference is to mill the logs myself and build with square timbers, I plan on milling most of the other lumber needed.
However, My question stands, Why not square?

Right above you.


We build with full logs because flat on flat joints wick water in and they hold the water, resulting in rot.

[allen84]

We build with full logs because flat on flat joints wick water in and they hold the water, resulting in rot.


In short, that is the best explanation there is. But, there are several other reasons the LHBA method is better than others.

[thoner7]

Milled square timber will rot. Especially the surfaces where the timbers are stacked because no air will be able to get in there and dry the wood out.

Also you may get a lot of twisting with milling green lumber. If I were you, I would use dried logs, like standing dead trees, then mill them. and use some 2x4 pieces as stickers to keep the timbers from touching each other as they are stacked.

[loghousenut]

Round logs are cool. They make a log house. Square logs are cool too but it just ain't the same... at least in my demented mind.

Go with this LHBA thing and you will end up with a house that will last longer than milled logs and it will have as much character as you have.

Just one ole guy's opinion, but I am usually right about these things, sometimes occasionally.

[rocklock]

My preference is to mill the logs myself and build with square timbers, I plan on milling most of the other lumber needed. My question stands, Why not square?
Several small facts... A 10 by 10 will take about 4 or 5 years to dry.
They will shrink about 10%...or about an inch if they are green. I waited 4 years and air dried my floor(Doug fir 1 by 12's) and it still has shrunk over 3/8 of an inch.
So what are you going to stick into that gap?
Your door openings will shrink, except if you stick in a vertical member on each side (verticals don't shrink much) but then the door width will shrink and leave gaps.
You will need to suspend your roof on some kind of screw adjuster so as your wall shrinks you can lower your roof so it sits on top of your wall. I saw one "log home" that you can see the sky because he did not know how to do it nor where the screws were...
Every window will need some kind of space to collapse on or your windows will break...
Plumbing and electrical must be accounted for or the will either break or spring a leak...
If you have stairs that are some how attached to the wall, they will need to be rebuilt every several years... I went to a guys log house that he was rebuilding the stairs for the third time. He was a pro stair builder and he was pissed... He could not show his craft in his own home...

I just got started... there is a lot more. But what's the point... Some folks will just do what they want... Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead.

OBTW, you had better be tough...

[rreidnauer]

Actually, I'm not against the square timbers idea. Though, I wouldn't stack LHBA style of I did. I'd do double dovetail corners and mortar chinking, like you see many of the old log houses here in Pennsylvania. I would employ several other LHBA methods to protect the logs. Sure, it's harder way to build (higher skill set) and you have to manage the additional settling/maintenance issues, but you'll still have a superior home over any stick-built.

The point being, even if you don't build LHBA style, the class still offers a lot of valuable insight.

[rocklock]

construct a 1200 sq. ft. "cabin" with square, milled by me green timbers. Short logs? Can this system be used to construct say out of 14' logs? say a 28' wall using 2x 14' logs?
Marcus:
If you use square timbers (I refuse to call dimensional lumber logs) you can build any dimensions... If you mean 'round' logs with taper it can be done, but I would not recommend it. When you consider taper, go buy 2 pounds of carrots. Then try stacking them with out considering the taper...

Take this lesson and then apply it to a 3 ton log. Even if you build a 30 by 40 foot cabin (1200sqft) taper must be considered. We recommend taper that is less that 4 inches over 40 feet or 1 inch per 10 feet (some of mine were 2 1/2 inches over 40 feet). If you build a 30 by 40 you will have a miss match in taper of at least 1 inch at each joint for every log. Not bad but it just increases the chinking necessary...

Back to the square timbers, I can't cut a notch to save my a$$. But there is a devise that you put over the timbers and chain saw the dove tail. Works really well and all the angles fit together so it looks really cool.

Keep asking questions and look at the student built homes... I can't tell you how cool it feels to walk into my log home in Washington. It just feels solid and different. Smells different too.

Good luck

[marcusorillias]

Maybe I should clarify my inquiry.

Disregarding the general dislike towards square timbers here lol, has anyone ever tried this system using timbers (will stick with this as milled)?

Most of the responses are talking shrinkage, Which I totally get, however, What is the significance with round logs and this system causing no settling or vertical shrinkage? and the square timbers do?

[rocklock]

Maybe I should clarify my inquiry. has anyone ever tried this system using timbers? What is the significance with round logs and this system causing no settling or vertical shrinkage? and the square timbers do?

Very simple, we drill a hole through the top log and pound the re-bar into the bottom green log. As the log dries it shrinks in every direction. It grabs the re-bar and so the log is suspended and help in place by steel. I have over 900 steel pins in my home. Most cell phones need to go outside to get good reception.

The vary same thing would work with 10 by 10's. In fact some of the most amazing home have a natural edge and lots of chinking. I have girder logs that have 4 by tens that hold up my second floor. The 4 by 10's are 1/2 inch above the log. I have taken pictures of this gap. In other words, the log shrank and the floor did not.

The problem with square timbers is the natural protection has been removed. You have exposed many rings to moister, rot and the like. You need to re-establish the protective layer with some kind of finish. And then every so often refinish. the finish costs about 90 bucks a gallon. Its a special finish because your timbers and my logs move and the coat must be flexible. Look up Sickens as an example.

Look at my logs. Most have no finish.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s274/flintlock1/nov3144.jpg

[Basil]

Any log/timber will rot if exposed to water. Keep it dry, and square timbers are fine. helped a friend build one before I built mine, which is round logs. His is still very nice (12 years) and I'm happy in mine (7 1/2 years). The one we built with squared timbers was very similar to the style taught here. It didn't shrink much. We squared the logs to 12X12 and placed a pressure treated 2X10 between each round, to keep consistent chink lines and make room for wires ( by using a 2X8 where wiring went). Don't chink for a while if you do this, or use permachink if you do. Pressure treated wood compresses under all that weight. I'd give it at least a year from roofing before chinking. Good luck, it's easily doable, but keep the logs dry.