Using poor quality logs

[Flatline]

Me again!

In some of the threads I have read, it says that one of the reasons for using the butt & pass method is that it allows the use of poor quality logs, logs that have little commercial value, unlike Douglas for and red cedar

Can someone explain what that means?

What type of trees produce poor logs?

Thanks
Phil

[rreidnauer]

I believe there is a joke about aspen trees, that if you cut one down, it will be rotten before it hits the ground.

There are trees more and less rot resistant than others. Basically, the LHBA construction methods focus on controlling moisture, (the catalyst for rot) hence allowing less rot resistant logs to be considered

[2Determined2Quit]

So aspen logs can not be used? I thought I had read on here that several people had used aspen?? We have several aspen on our land, they have minimal taper and 12" to 14" diameter, we were hoping to use them :(

[Arrowman]

So aspen logs can not be used? I thought I had read on here that several people had used aspen?? We have several aspen on our land, they have minimal taper and 12" to 14" diameter, we were hoping to use them :(

You can. But if it was me and I planned on using them, I might consider bigger overhangs and a nice wrap around porch.

[rreidnauer]

They can be used, as Arrowman points out, with additional measures put in place to protect them. Perhaps, if you have other species logs to use, put the most rot resistant near the bottom of the wall, and less resistant up high under the roof overhangs.

www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn153.pdf

[Tracyblott]

Just keep this in mind, you can use a pipe wrench for a hammer in a pinch but it's worth the time and effort to just go get the hammer instead of busting your knuckles and then going to get the hammer.

[Tracyblott]

JEEZ but that's the pot calling the kettle black, in my area pine is the only tree that grows straight enough to even think of building a cabin with, so guess what I'm using and guess what it's rot resistance is like, but if I had a choice I would use a better tree.

[2Determined2Quit]

You can. But if it was me and I planned on using them, I might consider bigger overhangs and a nice wrap around porch.

We have planned a 4' overhang on the eave sides and 8' on the peaks. Do you think that is sufficient? Of course our plans my change once we take the course :confused:

[2Determined2Quit]

They can be used, as Arrowman points out, with additional measures put in place to protect them. Perhaps, if you have other species logs to use, put the most rot resistant near the bottom of the wall, and less resistant up high under the roof overhangs.

www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn153.pdf

Thanks for the info rreidnauer! We are still unsure if we will harvest our own aspen logs or get spruce trucked in, and like I said plans may change once we take the course. We explored all our land last week and we discovered 2 very old cabins out in the bush and one is still standing up quite well!! Almost positive is was made with aspen...but the coolest thing is that is was Butt and Pass method!! The other little cabin was built right on the ground, with aspen, the trees right on the ground were quite rotted but the others were still pretty hard. Difficult to estimate the age of the cabin, but from the size of the tree growing in the inside of the cabin we would guess at least 50 years old. If our cabin lasts 50 years, it will definitely outlast us LOL

[loghousenut]

Build with what you got... unless you can got something better.

Our current build is using ugly, nasty, tapery, and susceptible to rot, Ponderosa Pine. Kinda wish I'd used Douglas Fir but ours will turn out fine and they are really cool looking logs.

I'd build with Aspen in a heartbeat if the logs were really cool. I wouldn't fall them until the foundation was up and I'd be sure there was a roof (with huge overhang) on it before the fall rains hit.

[Mosseyme]

You can also raise the bottom of the cabin by going with a stem wall. With it 2-3' off the ground and 5' or so overhangs and like nut said foundation first, cut peel, treat, stack, cover quickly and treat again, you should be good to go. I you have easy to harvest trees that will help. I would not start harvesting late in the season hoping to get done before winter. I would start as early in the spring as is possible, the foundation already in and ready to stack as in the PT plates done and all set up to just fell peel and stack.
Also the height of the log walls has to do with how wide of overhang you need. The higher the walls the wider the overhang or wraparound porches.

[2Determined2Quit]

Thanks again for the advice LHN and Mosseyme! From everything I have learned already, I truly can't wait to get to the other side. You all have such great advice and the sense of humor is a bonus and quite refreshing!

I have one more rookie question:

So if we start early in the spring....from what I understand the logs will be easier to peel but there will be more checking...but since time will be our enemy, is there any way to decrease the checking?? Or should we still fell the trees in the winter and then peel in spring??

[Tracyblott]

Fell in winter, peel as soon as you feel them, use latex paint on ends as soon as you fell them, turn them 1/4 turn every week, keep them off ground.

[Tracyblott]

The reason some folks feel and peel in spring is because sap is high and bark comes off in sheets which makes it easier to peel but you end up with a log that is going to shrink alot more by going that route.

[rreidnauer]

I think girdling the trees now, and felling/peeling in the spring is a better option.

[2Determined2Quit]

Girdling....new term to me and more food for thought.

Why do you think that method is a better option? Better drying? Easier peeling? Is there more of a risk for bug infestation?

[Tracyblott]

I guess I could explained why we are taught to winter cut and peel. Growth rings you have a dark colored ring and a light colored ring, the light colored ring is your spring and summer ring it is soft and transports water from the bottom of the tree to the top, the dark colored ring is the fall and winter ring and is much harder and acts as a protective barrier thus we want the protective layer on the outside of our logs, then there is the issue of sap content, winter cut trees have less sap which in turn reduces both shrinking and checking, you can do it any way you want to but it's good to know the pros and cons of the choice you make.

[rreidnauer]

Girdling....new term to me and more food for thought.

Why do you think that method is a better option? Better drying? Easier peeling? Is there more of a risk for bug infestation?
Girdling will stop any sap from rising by the time you're ready to cut in the spring. Sap begins way earlier than the first signs of leaves beginning to bud out. (Just look at when maple sap is started to be collected) The tree should be lighter come harvesting time, and by leaving stand, keeps it away from the soil while it begins to cure, vs dragging a freshly cut log through the dirt and to the racks. Probably won't help with peeling in that relatively short period of time. Let them stand through two Winters, and it would probably be easier.

[rreidnauer]

Before peeling the bugs that come are helpful, as they seem to like eating just under the bark, (cambium) loosening it. It's briefly after you peel that the boring insects converge. I guess attracted by the smell? To avoid them, best to peel when its too cold out for them.

[Tom Featherstone]

I don't disagree with Rod very often, but I wouldn't let Aspen stand more than the 1 winter. They'll rot standing being they're not peeled. Any tree left unpeeled, you take a big chance of some wood boring insect from eating your logs.

[2Determined2Quit]

Clear as mud now....thanks LOL

:p

I think we are going to fell a few trees this winter and girdle a few too, then a few in the spring and ....they will be "trial" runs, and most likely used as our lifting poles or firewood. Then we can see what works best long before we start building.


Sorry for stealing your thread flatline, hope you are still getting some good info.

[rreidnauer]

I agree with Tom. You can't let aspen go that long. I was just saying for bark to loosen up, it would take about that long.

[Tracyblott]

Clear as mud now....thanks LOL

:p

I think we are going to fell a few trees this winter and girdle a few too, then a few in the spring and ....they will be "trial" runs, and most likely used as our lifting poles or firewood. Then we can see what works best long before we start building.


Sorry for stealing your thread flatline, hope you are still getting some good info.

Now that is an awesome idea i wish i had thought of it.

[hech714]

Fell in winter, peel as soon as you feel them, use latex paint on ends as soon as you fell them, turn them 1/4 turn every week, keep them off ground.
And can you start building with this logs in summer ?

[rreidnauer]

You can fell them, peel them, and stack them all in the same day, no problem.

[Tracyblott]

And can you start building with this logs in summer ?

Log shrinkage is our friend, its the element that makes it so that settling never happens and as rod said you can go up with your walls the very same day you fell your trees and is exact thing i plan to do with mine.

[Tracyblott]

I should have noted that log shrinkage is only a friend in our style of building, as far as kit cabins and such shrinkage is the enemy.

[Mosseyme]

I have said this before. All things being possible and equal, I would do all prelims including basement or footers and foundation. Have electric and sewerage in place or planned to be installed after heavy equipment use is done.
I would install first floor on the foundation with the water resistant flooring.
Then I would fell the 8 largest trees besides the RP. I would do a sizing list of these for placement. peel and treat these and stack them. If one or more doesn't seem to fit in these two levels leave them on the rack and fell 8 more. Doing 2 levels at a time gives you some choice to where to put them. I would cont. with this plan until all walls and support logs were stacked. Then just go for it with the RP, rafters and roof. This would take some concentrated time and help or sit back and let Ronnie do it this week and start on your chinking next week. ha.

[Flatline]

Sorry for stealing your thread flatline, hope you are still getting some good info.

You guys carry on, with any luck I will have a lot of questions answered before I have to ask them :-)

[Flatline]

Is it possible to set up an automatic email notification for new replies?

[eduncan911]

Is it possible to set up an automatic email notification for new replies?

Not with this forum. It's been disabled for as long as I've been a member. I think it is to keep the server from getting marked as spam. Or, we are just too busy building houses to not care about email. ;)

Get Tapatalk for your phone or tablet. It will handle the notifications.

[edkemper]

With all the activity this forum gets? It wouldn't take long at times to fill up your inbox.

[Flatline]

OK, thanks

[DanS]

It's funny. I've been thinning my forest a lot this fall.

I have lots of Aspen, Doug Fir, Lodgepole Pine, and a little Ponderosa Pine.

Hands down, the most prone to rot is the Doug Fir. I know it's supposed to be more resistant, but the instant it has any lichen growing on the bark, every single time I sink the saw into the fir it's rotted. The aspen that has been down for years isn't rotted, neither is the pine. But the Doug Fir, that stuff seems to rot within a year here--as soon as the lichen grows.

Completely anecdotal, and I'm in a really dry climate, but it's been consistent for the hundreds and hundreds of trees I have felled and bucked this year.

We will be building with Pine.

Dan

[2Determined2Quit]

After lots of research and searching on this forum, we weren't convinced that we should use Aspen either, but since that's what we have....we will use it (with large overhangs and wrap around deck). I was convinced after we cut some old fallen trees, they were like concrete! Absolutely no sign of rot. We will definitely build with green logs cause I'm not strong enough to pound rebar through concrete LOL

Really hoping this won't change after we take the course....Feb can't come fast enough!!

[Tracyblott]

After lots of research and searching on this forum, we weren't convinced that we should use Aspen either, but since that's what we have....we will use it (with large overhangs and wrap around deck). I was convinced after we cut some old fallen trees, they were like concrete! Absolutely no sign of rot. We will definitely build with green logs cause I'm not strong enough to pound rebar through concrete LOL

Really hoping this won't change after we take the course....Feb can't come fast enough!!

You dont have to, you can get a demo hammer that will pound it in for you, just just got to squeeze the trigger is all, no fuss no muss.

[loghousenut]

You dont have to, you can get a demo hammer that will pound it in for you, just just got to squeeze the trigger is all, no fuss no muss.

Apparently Tracyblott has never done it. I have done it in the old days with a sledge and elbow grease, and I have done it in the new days with "squeeze the trigger and elbow grease".

Come back out from under the bus and join the fun, Tracy... I was only funnin'.

It is work either way, but slighty less work if the logs are green. Just get the logs and stack 'em. You are building the coolest home in the neighborhood. Who cares if it is 20% easier or 40% harder. You won't quit half way through the job, so just get the thing done and then you can start figuring how to save a bit of energy on the next build.

One way or the other it will get done... It always does.

[LowKey]

Is there any point to pilot drilling the underlying log to ease the work for driving the rebar? No tot he same bore as the upper log, I grasp why the lower log needs to really "grip" the rebar, but just enough to make it a wee-bit easier to drive in. Say half the diameter of the rebar?

[Tracyblott]

You don't drill the bottom log so that it will create a wood plug

[LowKey]

Huh?
Where does that wooden plug go...??

[rreidnauer]

Don't worry about that. It was presumed that by driving a flat cut rebar into an undrilled log, it would cause a dense plug of wood to form in front of the rebar. It has been dispelled since, as someone split apart a log that had rebar driven in that way, and it was not the case. However, it is good to not drill the bottom log, because it immensely increases holding strength.

[LowKey]

That makes sense, but I'm still wondering if "pre--drilling "might not "ease the way" a bit.
My thinking being (given that we were using 1/2 inch rebar) Drilling the top log with a 3/8 inch hole and the bottom log at 1/4 inch hole.
Would that making driving the rebar easier, and would it reduce the gripping strength on the dies/season log on the bar significantly?

Mostly academic to me, as I have no problem with the idea of using powered assistance to drive the rebar into the log for me. Others, however, might find it a helpful bit of information.

[Tracyblott]

Don't worry about that. It was presumed that by driving a flat cut rebar into an undrilled log, it would cause a dense plug of wood to form in front of the rebar. It has been dispelled since, as someone split apart a log that had rebar driven in that way, and it was not the case. However, it is good to not drill the bottom log, because it immensely increases holding strength.

Useful info, I intend to remember that.

[2Determined2Quit]

please enlighten the newbie...

Is a demo hammer, hand-held jackhammer, and breaker hammer all the same tool, but with different names?

[loghousenut]

please enlighten the newbie...

Is a demo hammer, hand-held jackhammer, and breaker hammer all the same tool, but with different names?

Take the class.

[loghousenut]

Don't get in an uproar... I was just funnin"!

Same tool. It was a lot of fun doing it in the old days with just a hammer. Kinda like drilling with a brace and bit was a lot of fun before Makita was invented.

[2Determined2Quit]

Don't get in an uproar... I was just funnin"!

Same tool. It was a lot of fun doing it in the old days with just a hammer. Kinda like drilling with a brace and bit was a lot of fun before Makita was invented.

I AM in an uproar!! I get to buy another tool!!
I didn't think there were many tools we DIDN'T have....so I get a tad bit excited to buy and try new ones :p
The logging tools we obviously didn't have (we live on the bald prairies where trees are sacred), the hubby has done a great job building them! log dogs, tongs, peaveys, and spuds.
It's gonna be a longggggggggg winter waiting for Feb so ya might as well just bare with me LHN and answer my silly questions and just think how knowledgeable I will be when I finally get to the other side!!

[Tracyblott]

Yes lots of names most commonly referred to as a demolition hammer, but from reading up on the subject it's seems that a 15 amp SDS max is what it takes to have enough power to do the job.

[Tracyblott]

Knowledgeable? With LHN as a mentor you might as well just put in a pan of muffins, haha LHN you had that one comin.

[2Determined2Quit]

Yes lots of names most commonly referred to as a demolition hammer, but from reading up on the subject it's seems that a 15 amp SDS max is what it takes to have enough power to do the job.

Thanks!! You've just answered my next questions...you are all so good at this game with the newbies LOL

[edkemper]

I AM in an uproar!! I get to buy another tool!!

You are in soooooooo much trouble. You are going to fit in this family like a glove. This group is more fun (read that insane) than the proverbial barrel of monkeys.

[2Determined2Quit]

You are in soooooooo much trouble. You are going to fit in this family like a glove. This group is more fun (read that insane) than the proverbial barrel of monkeys.

Can we build the barrel out of logs?? :p

[Tracyblott]

Can we build the barrel out of logs?? :p
Sure but it would require you to buy a lathe.

[loghousenut]

Knowledgeable? With LHN as a mentor you might as well just put in a pan of muffins, haha LHN you had that one comin.

If I was their mentor, they would be suicidal.

[LowKey]

If I was their mentor, they would be suicidal.

Maybe, but it would be a very sloooowwwwww suicide. Might take decades to finish the job....

[John W]

Low Key
Maybe, but it would be a very sloooowwwwww suicide. Might take decades to finish the job....

Now that right there is funny, don't care who you are.

[Tracyblott]

maybe, but it would be a very sloooowwwwww suicide. Might take decades to finish the job....

lmao, geterdone!!!!!!!!!

[rreidnauer]

Low Key
Maybe, but it would be a very sloooowwwwww suicide. Might take decades to finish the job....

Now that right there is funny, don't care who you are.
Ha! He's got 'nut pegged to a "T"

[allen84]

Ok, I've been holding out on this one to see where it went. Seems everyone is focused on rot resistance when considering log quality, or lack of. What about taper, straightness (or crooked-ness), lumpy-ness (knots/branches) and other imperfections? Everyone probably factors all those things differently. To me, part of why I was drawn to wanting to build with logs is because of all the natural "imperfections" they have. To me, the perfect logs for my building are going to be the logs I choose to use and for whatever reasons (everyone weighs priorities differently). When it comes time, a lot of mine will probably be lumpy, crooked and have lots of taper. It's what I have to work with and I will be perfectly happy with the looks of it.

Sorry for un-hijacking the thread, carry on ;)

I re-read page one. LHN started in on imperfections but not as enthusiastically as me. I think that's part of what makes the log structures so unique no matter what logs are used. Of course some of us are more easily amused than others. I could stare at the grain of the wood on my desk for an hour everyday.

[loghousenut]

The LHBA method is probably the most forgiving system for log home building when it comes to ugly logs. Taper... no sweat.

[allen84]

I like the look of logs with lots of taper. It might look unorganized and rigged up to some folks compared to one built with logs that look like perfect dowels.... Which would make sense as to why I like it.

[LowKey]

Well the taper would work itself out, wouldn't it?

By that I mean by alternating butt-top-butt-top (starting from any given corner) as long as the wall has an even number of logs in it the top of the wall should be level. Taper shouldn't effect the size of gap between logs, it would just mean that the line of chinking will be angled (and alternating on each layer)....right?

[DanS]

Well the taper would work itself out, wouldn't it?

By that I mean by alternating butt-top-butt-top (starting from any given corner) as long as the wall has an even number of logs in it the top of the wall should be level. Taper shouldn't effect the size of gap between logs, it would just mean that the line of chinking will be angled (and alternating on each layer)....right?

Generally. But that assumes that all of your logs have relatively uniform taper.

That said, using the law of averages, you can avoid most of those issues as you build. But you definitely have to use an even number of courses of logs to get it to even out.

Dan

[BoFuller]

Generally. But that assumes that all of your logs have relatively uniform taper.

That said, using the law of averages, you can avoid most of those issues as you build. But you definitely have to use an even number of courses of logs to get it to even out.

Dan

Not always true. I have good amount of taper and I came out even with 9 courses. It takes a wee bit more planning, but it is very doable.

[rreidnauer]

Yep. Did it at Steve W's build too. No problem, just got to plan for it.

[Plumb Level]

Same here, 11 courses. No more than 1/2" total difference between the two cap logs and only had to notch two rafters down into the cap logs due to knots/swells. I realized at course 8 that that 10 courses was going to leave my loft a foot shorter than optimal, so I started planning there to stop at 11. The trick was to be out of level after course 10. In my case, I wanted to be about 4 inches too low on the corners where the butt ends of my cap logs were going to go. On courses 9 and 10 I chose to strap some logs down tight while pounding rebar, and others, I let them ride up the rebar an inch or two, then strapped them down.

And Bo, I thought your logs were so big you only did 3 courses? :p

[BoFuller]

And Bo, I thought your logs were so big you only did 3 courses? :p

3 per floor. LOL

[rreidnauer]

To add to how forgiving the method is, we changed our minds on how many courses we were going, three times while stacking, and still hit +/-1/4" on the cap logs. I can not emphasize enough the importance of a well detailed log schedule, preferably in Excel (or similar electronic format) to make choosing logs easy, and to be able to rearrange log position with ease. Steve had it all figured out before setting the first log, and continuously updated the data as we used up logs. When it came time to change gears, he could just move data around to work. Granted, it involved a lot of head scratching, but I can't even fathom how you could make proper selections without that data. Mind you, he used every log he had. No extras safety buffer.

[BoFuller]

I had enough for another layer but then I would had to get another permit - clearance from the closet airport. :)

[rreidnauer]

....even despite the closest airport being 50 miles away.

[Mosseyme]

We have very tapered and very crooked logs. Their are no straight Eastern Hemlock. Most of our were growing on the side of the very steepest mountains around. They do a curving thing for about the first 8-15'. Then they tend to straighten up. I didn't want to waste those 24-32" butts so we straightened them buy cutting them at a door or window. Also the logs do not have to be the same size. Our bottom logs have 28" butts while the top logs only have 16-18" butts. It will still be the coolest log house in Cherokee County and beyond.
Also I intentionally left the limb knots a little long on some of them because I love the lumps and bumps. I am sanding them off enough to be smooth so I don't tear up body parts on them and they are beautiful.

[2Determined2Quit]

Knowledgeable? With LHN as a mentor you might as well just put in a pan of muffins, haha LHN you had that one comin.

As I read through all the threads and boggle my mind with never ending questions....the one questions that always comes to the forefront....what's the story with the muffins??? It seems to be an ongoing dig.
Humor me LHN, I promise not to poke fun :rolleyes:

[allen84]

He claims to work at some kind of muffin shop. Maybe he lives on Drury Lane. I donno, maybe he has some kind of cushy job? Care to enlighten us LHN? I've honestly wondered the same ;)

[donjuedo]

His best story is the Purina diet. I'll never forget that one.

[loghousenut]

For the past 22 glorious years I have been employed by a huge megabox store that charges a membership fee to shop in any of its 700 locations worldwide. I have amassed a shameful amount of stock in this wonderful organisation and have, at different times in my career, held positions in both inside and outside sales.

Out of respect for the "no forum sales" clause in our LHBA contract, I have carefully avoided all reference to the true identity of this Corporation. But I have to call the place SOMETHING, so I just picked a product that we are famous for.

You all can say what you want about the place, just be sure to spell the name right. I get a commission.

[2Determined2Quit]

Ahhhhh, ok, it all makes sense now. I'm glad I asked.

But truth be told...my imagination was a much wilder story.....and probably better left unsaid

[loghousenut]

Ahhhhh, ok, it all makes sense now. I'm glad I asked.

But truth be told...my imagination was a much wilder story.....and probably better left unsaid

So you believed that line sheep dip I fed you?








I have a reputation to defend.

[2Determined2Quit]

Grrrrrrrr. Ok you got me.
All I have to say now is. ...GAME ON!

LOL

[LowKey]

Remember, those SLOW BAKED muffins. Takes a couple of weeks each at least. Much different that those fast baked muffins offered by the competition.

[Mosseyme]

Game may be on but I'm betting on the nut. I have only seen him one upped a couple of times.

[Mosseyme]

BTW this is some of what you get on the wild side he doesn't show all his tricks over here.

[2Determined2Quit]

BTW this is some of what you get on the wild side he doesn't show all his tricks over here.

You all keep teasing. ...it's gonna be a long winter til FEB! ! Lol

[loghousenut]

Game may be on but I'm betting on the nut. I have only seen him one upped a couple of times.

Wouldn't that be couple upped?





I'll bet on the nut too. The old frat'll most likely get in the last word just as he kicks the bucket. Ever try to pick on a dead guy?

[BoFuller]

Just be careful. You don't want the whole fam agin' you.

[Mosseyme]

That's right brother Bo. I bet we can really get the newbies going.

[2Determined2Quit]

I think that might deserve it's own thread :confused:

[allen84]

I think that might deserve it's own thread :confused:

Ouch, and maybe a new smiley: "burn" :p

[2Determined2Quit]

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/P_513626_1777809.jpg


Ouch, and maybe a new smiley: "burn" :p

[loghousenut]

I think that might deserve it's own thread :confused:

It is on the member's side... Take the class....

[mudflap]

Build with what you got... unless you can got something better.

Our current build is using ugly, nasty, tapery, and susceptible to rot, Ponderosa Pine. Kinda wish I'd used Douglas Fir but ours will turn out fine and they are really cool looking logs.

I'd build with Aspen in a heartbeat if the logs were really cool. I wouldn't fall them until the foundation was up and I'd be sure there was a roof (with huge overhang) on it before the fall rains hit.

See, my problem is I don't know exactly how big my trees are going to be, so I don't want to build a 40x40 foundation, only to find out my trees aren't going to be big enough. They are loblolly pine (SYP) coming from my property and the neighborhood, but until I cut them and measure them- we want a 40x40 and the logs (so far) are coming in right at 44' with just barely 8" at the 44' mark. See, I'm a mathematician, so I like things to be exact. I have a clinometer app on my phone, so I've been able to estimate the length of the trees before I cut them (to within a foot), but the only way to be sure the tops are more than 8" is to measure them once they are on the ground. So now I'm wondering if I need to get a tarp over the ones I've cut and peeled until I get enough to start stacking. And maybe start borating them? What do you think?

[allen84]

Maybe a tarp underneath to keep grass down. I don't think you want to put a tarp directly covering them though. I don't really have any good suggestions of how to accurately measure before cutting, not 40 feet anyways. Sounds to me if you are certain you can get 44' and an 8" top per log you can build your 40x40.

[Arrowman]

I would borate as soon as you get them peeled. There are a few other threads around the boards where people discussed storing the logs long-term, some pretty good insights in those, Mud-flap. Like Allen said, I wouldn't tarp over them. If you plan on having them peeled for a year or so before you start stacking, I would get something erected over top of them, pole-barn/carport like, just to keep a lot of the elements off.

Realistically, long-term storage is no different than putting them on your house. Keep them as dry as possible, and allow them ways to dry out quickly should they get wet.

[mudflap]

Thanks for the info. Guess I could post my optimistic schedule: 3 months logging/peeling, 1 month for foundation, 1 month for stacking, 3 months for roof. That totals 8 months from felling to under roof. Should I worry about rotting?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[mudflap]

Maybe a tarp underneath to keep grass down. I don't think you want to put a tarp directly covering them though. I don't really have any good suggestions of how to accurately measure before cutting, not 40 feet anyways. Sounds to me if you are certain you can get 44' and an 8" top per log you can build your 40x40.
Ok, whew!

Thanks for the info. Guess I could post my optimistic schedule: 3 months logging/peeling, 1 month for foundation, 1 month for stacking, 3 months for roof. That totals 8 months from felling to under roof. Should I worry about rotting?

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[loghousenut]

Should I worry about rotting?



They are pine.

I, like you, am a kinduva mathematician myself, but I am not so much for little details or numbers. I'd borate them and reborate them and I'd want that roof on as soon as possible. I'd also be a bit relaxed on the whole thing and I'd figure it will all turn out fine. D on't be too relaxed.

As your log deck stacks up you may find a few logs that are less than perfect and will need a window or doorway to stretch or straighten them. You might also cheat that build a foot or two smaller in the name of safety. Every foot larger makes it a slower build and every foot needs fewer imperfect logs to make it work. If there are a few logs that taper too much, you might try to make a tiny end be an overdangle.

In the end, some problem or twelve will crop up and you'll have to deal with it. That is why you are building it yourself instead of letting some banker decide who builds it for you. We are all on your side but none of us will be as much on your side as you are.

[loghousenut]

PS... I had to splice two logs right near the center of the wall on the front door side. They are 3/4 of the way up and just off to the right of the main entrance and just off to the left of the girder. They are just below the cap log.

As we were stacking, it became obvious that it had to happen someplace, and it loomed like an impending disaster right up to the point of pinning them. The thought was that if there was going to be an artsy little 1x2 window someplace up that high in a wall, it might be kinda cute right there in front for all to see. It would look like we did it on purpose.

It has been easy to ignore the problem, and just leave it as two rows of logs with two splices, one above the other. I suppose some of our visitors have noticed it but I cannot recall anyone asking about it. It looks a lot more normal than you'd expect it to. The window idea is still in the works but we could also do glass blocks or even a little upright chunk of a log pinned in there. We could also just chink it and never worry about it and I'll bet nobody would wonder about it.

In the end it is just a log house and whatever logs you end up with will either work or they won't... Probably work.

[allen84]

PS... I had to splice two logs right near the center of the wall on the front door side. They are 3/4 of the way up and just off to the right of the main entrance and just off to the left of the girder. They are just below the cap log.

As we were stacking, it became obvious that it had to happen someplace, and it loomed like an impending disaster right up to the point of pinning them. The thought was that if there was going to be an artsy little 1x2 window someplace up that high in a wall, it might be kinda cute right there in front for all to see. It would look like we did it on purpose.

It has been easy to ignore the problem, and just leave it as two rows of logs with two splices, one above the other. I suppose some of our visitors have noticed it but I cannot recall anyone asking about it. It looks a lot more normal than you'd expect it to. The window idea is still in the works but we could also do glass blocks or even a little upright chunk of a log pinned in there. We could also just chink it and never worry about it and I'll bet nobody would wonder about it.

In the end it is just a log house and whatever logs you end up with will either work or they won't... Probably work.

https://shoals.craigslist.org/crs/5528052803.html

One picture in this ad that a low skill person like me could probably pull off.

[Arrowman]

Thanks for the info. Guess I could post my optimistic schedule: 3 months logging/peeling, 1 month for foundation, 1 month for stacking, 3 months for roof. That totals 8 months from felling to under roof. Should I worry about rotting?

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As long as you keep them off the ground and give them plenty of air circulation to dry if they get wet, you should be fine.

[ScottPowers]

How does the clinometer app work? I looked on the app store and there are a bunch of them there. Which one are you using? Sounds like it would be a great help in picking trees to use.

[mudflap]

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.plaincode.clinometer is the one I use. I measure my distance from the base of the tree (say 30 feet), then turn on the app. You press the "lock" button on the app, then sight along the edge of your smart phone to the top of the tree. As soon as the phone senses that you've stopped moving, it beeps, and locks the reading. So then I take the reading and do the following calculation on the phone's calculator: tan(clinometer reading)*distance from tree = some value, then add your height (6 feet for me), and that's the height of the tree.

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[mudflap]

I don't usually measure to the top of the tree- I usually sight along the trunk to a point that I can pick out- like where the trunk splits.

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[mudflap]

They are pine.

I, like you, am a kinduva mathematician myself, but I am not so much for little details or numbers. I'd borate them and reborate them and I'd want that roof on as soon as possible. I'd also be a bit relaxed on the whole thing and I'd figure it will all turn out fine. D on't be too relaxed.

As your log deck stacks up you may find a few logs that are less than perfect and will need a window or doorway to stretch or straighten them. You might also cheat that build a foot or two smaller in the name of safety. Every foot larger makes it a slower build and every foot needs fewer imperfect logs to make it work. If there are a few logs that taper too much, you might try to make a tiny end be an overdangle.

In the end, some problem or twelve will crop up and you'll have to deal with it. That is why you are building it yourself instead of letting some banker decide who builds it for you. We are all on your side but none of us will be as much on your side as you are.
Excellent advice, as usual!

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[allen84]

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.plaincode.clinometer is the one I use. I measure my distance from the base of the tree (say 30 feet), then turn on the app. You press the "lock" button on the app, then sight along the edge of your smart phone to the top of the tree. As soon as the phone senses that you've stopped moving, it beeps, and locks the reading. So then I take the reading and do the following calculation on the phone's calculator: tan(clinometer reading)*distance from tree = some value, then add your height (6 feet for me), and that's the height of the tree.

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You can do this fairly accurate and just as easy with a stick about the length of your arm also.

https://www.google.com/#q=how+to+measure+height+of+tree+with+a+stick

I believe the most accurate length is a stick that you can almost touch your eye with when your arm is stretched out all the way.

[mudflap]

That'll work, too.

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[mudflap]

Here's some photos of my work today:http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160507/40b7925b384d1cc6e599e07fdddc482e.jpg tied the tree to a tractor (150' rope tied to a 55' tree)
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160507/e67a80195dcf7f47d952a6ac8aadf841.jpg cutting

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160507/621bec97e4f37e8b410c3dcb90280d41.jpg Sun got in the way, but you can see it lean as it falls

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160507/7884d57292ff0dc1000215557beccd99.jpg pushing it up next to the others, ready to peel.


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[Plumb Level]

Looks good, where are your chaps?

[mudflap]

Yeah, I should probably get some. Kevlar.

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[mudflap]

But the rope was genius. That tree landed within 6" of where I wanted it.

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[Arrowman]

Nice. How many more do you have left?

[mudflap]

I still need about 40 more for the walls and then probably 20 more for the roof and then -I don't know- 20 more for the deck and the floors inside. But I keep getting more than I can cut so I just try to keep up with the ones everyone says I can have off their property. Even though they're not Cypress I guess you build with what you got

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[mudflap]

I should update this with some happy news- the guy that bought the property next to mine, and at first said not to cut any trees off his property? Yeah, the property that I was hoping to get about 60 trees from before he bought it? He was over there Bush hogging today (first time since he bought it), so I went and talked to him. Short story: he said I can have whatever trees I want, with 2 conditions: burn all the brush, and grind down the stumps when I'm done. So he changed his mind! Woo-hoo! Back in business! Thank you, God.

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[BoFuller]

Awesome news!


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[donjuedo]

To quote Humphrey Bogart's Rick, "I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."

[mudflap]

He said he told me to wait because he was going to try to sell them, but the loggers he talked to wouldn't grind the stumps or haul away the brush, and that's what convinced him, he said. That, and he said he wants to see me succeed. He said people in town are talking about what I'm doing, and he says it's exciting. I guess the "tactical lesson" is: offer to grind the stumps and burn the brush, because that's something the loggers aren't offering (at least around here). Thanks for the nice comments from y'all.

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[2Determined2Quit]

That's great news!

We had a similar situation this week at our property. We have 160 acres of bush, but because of the thick underbrush, beaver dams, swamps, etc it has been a challenge to find the right size logs close to a "trail" to ease the removal. Anyways, it was getting to be slim pickings and we were looking at having to bulldoze new paths to try and get some more trees. Our neighbor came over and offered as many trees as we need. He says the locals are "talking" about these crazy people that bought land and think they are going to build a log cabin. Our neighbor says he wants to see our retirement dream come true and will help in anyway he can (he's 79 yrs old). We have only met this man twice. God works in mysterious ways, and a shared bottle of spiced rum is a sure win!!

[allen84]

He said he told me to wait because he was going to try to sell them, but the loggers he talked to wouldn't grind the stumps or haul away the brush, and that's what convinced him, he said. That, and he said he wants to see me succeed. He said people in town are talking about what I'm doing, and he says it's exciting. I guess the "tactical lesson" is: offer to grind the stumps and burn the brush, because that's something the loggers aren't offering (at least around here). Thanks for the nice comments from y'all.

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When I cut down my trees, I cut them as close to the ground as possible... unless I want a good stump to sit on. Loggers tend to leave them a little high from what I've seen. The brush thing I understand also. However, I've been told... When they are clearing on a hillside, they will put brush in the spots where water has already caused erosion. Supposedly to help slow down and disperse water which will prevent/slow down further erosion. Kind of makes sense to me. Sounds like both yall have some great neighbors!