Aesthetics

[LowKey]

Not trying to stir up a

I'll admit, I don't like the aesthetics of the log ends with the butt and pass method vs most of the notch systems.
That doesn't mean I wont use the butt and pass method (after all, I'm taking the class this Feb), just that I don't find it quite as pleasing to the eye. Maybe it will be less bothersome if the protruding ends of the logs aren't as long as I've seen them on some builds. I suppose I could put a false post up at the end to make it look like piece en piece work.

Honestly, what I really would like to avoid is very wide bands of chinking.
Now, I have no objection to chinking. I'm not coming at this from the perspective of a "chink-less" acolyte. While I'll admit a liking for quite a few of the old world chink-less hewn log cabins in Scandinavia, I'm not opposed to using chinking. I'd just prefer to keep it narrow vs wide bands.

So, aside from taking many years to let logs season in advance of the build to season the logs....how do yo keep the visible signs of chinking to a minimum?

[rckclmbr428]

Minimum taper, arrow straight, perfectly uniform logs.

[loghousenut]

I don't care about aesthetics... I just want it to look good.

Don't worry much about it, LowKey. The overdangles hanging out there look will grow on you. You can accent them, cut them short, minimize or maximize them. I suppose you could cut them off altogether and cover them up with a log to look piece en piecey but it seems like an extra complication.

Last year I dressed for Halloween as a hula dancer. It was a lot of trouble and a maintenance nightmare and, in the end, folks still thought I was a fat ole man with a grass skirt and seashell bra.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/P1020476_zpsf68706a3.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/loghousenut/media/P1020476_zpsf68706a3.jpg.html)

[LowKey]

Yup.
See, I still don't find that appealing.
Doesn't mean I don't think it's functional or efficient, or that I won't use the technique if that's what's best .
It also doesn't mean that I won't do it that way when push comes to shove, but I can tell you that NO, I won't find it attractive. Liking it for dogmas sake isn't going to hold any water for me.
That look isn't going to grow on me. Period. It won't. End of story.
Now that doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with someone else liking that style. If they do, good for them.


And you're right, covering them with another log to look piece en piecey would be an extra complication, and an extra expense. To be honest, I'm not all that fond of the piece en piece look either.
At the same time, suggesting g that I'll learn to like the look in time is rather like telling someone they'll eventually learn to like being taxed once tehy get used to the supposed services it pays for.

[Tracyblott]

Lowkey, at the end of the day this is your rodeo and you can ride your bull anyway you see fit, if you don't like the look of something do a bit of thinking and find a way for it you have the look you want.

[loghousenut]

Yup.
See, I still don't find that appealing.

And you're right, covering them with another log to look piece en piecey would be an extra complication, and an extra expense. To be honest, I'm not all that fond of the piece en piece look either.


Nothing wrong with not liking the look. Nothing wrong with extra work to make it whatever you want. I've done way too much extra work on my build on goofy details that most folks snicker at.

I am supposing that you are in favor of the LHBA method but wished it had the look of a notched house. Well it would still be a fairly different look but nothing is stopping a fellow/gal from pinning in chunks of logs where there is dead air between each overdangle. It would mean that each log had an overdangle as in a notched home.

It wouldn't add anymore structural integrity, or labor, than lick 'n stick fake rock on the foundation and it might look kinda cool.

[edkemper]

In this group, the one thing you won't find is an attitude that there is only one way or the highway. We all take the basics and then add our own preferences.

[eduncan911]

^- Ed said it best.

I will say that one of the reasons most leave the overdangles is that it makes it easier to re-stain: just plot a latter or something between them: free scaffolding.

But yeah, really do it any way you want.

If you want small chink lines, get 3 or 4 foot wide trees, minimal taper and very straight.

[StressMan79]

^- Ed said it best.

I will say that one of the reasons most leave the overdangles is that it makes it easier to re-stain: just plot a latter or something between them: free scaffolding.

But yeah, really do it any way you want.

If you want small chink lines, get 3 or 4 foot wide trees, minimal taper and very straight.

Also, rotoclipping off knots will help them to fit together better.

Sent from my VS986 using Forum Runner

[project]

When I first started in this I had planned to fill the spaces between the overdangles with log ends to give it the appearance of a notched log but after several years of looking at all the houses built it just seems normal to me now.

[eduncan911]

To the OP, it may not be your cup of tea but it is a functional build that deters rotting, does not settle, and is simple for DIYers.

The class explains why. At first I didn't like it either. But after taking the class, it makes total sense. The boss didn't like it either until I showed her where aesthetically looking houses would rot here and there, where settling problems would occur, and how inexpensive the design is. She completely understandable now... It also helps that I've showed her like 100+ pics: it grows on you for a while.

Kind of like a current version of a Camaro vs a nice '67 without the flipdown headlight louvers: sure you can just finance a new $45,000 retro-looking car that fits in with aesthetics of modern day culture and the older '67 looks "old" and out of date. But, it is functional, easy to build and maintain and most of all makes the driver smile (with a lot more money in his pocket).

[LowKey]

I hadn't thought about using the protruding ends for supporting scaffolding, clever idea.

As far as my leaning towards doing something a bit different with the ends it would be towards clipping off the log ends rather than tacking short sections of log to fill the gaps between the dangles.

BTW, about staining.....has anyone tried pine tar mixed with turpentine? The stuff I'm talking about is also know as Stockholm Tar.
I've seen some recipes that included linseed oil, but IIRC linseed oil can encourage mold/mildew on wood in damp climates.

[LowKey]

To the OP, it may not be your cup of tea but it is a functional build that deters rotting, does not settle, and is simple for DIYers.

The class explains why. At first I didn't like it either. But after taking the class, it makes total sense. The boss didn't like it either until I showed her where aesthetically looking houses would rot here and there, where settling problems would occur, and how inexpensive the design is. She completely understandable now... It also helps that I've showed her like 100+ pics: it grows on you for a while.
.

Oh, I'm sold on the technique.
Trust me, I wouldn't be getting on a plane to squeeze my butt into a tiny economy seat for 24 hours of flight each way and the discomforts that are now part of modern air travel to attend a two day class if I didn't think this is the way I'm going to build it.

In this instance I'm just looking for ways to mitigate an appearance that I don't like. Clipping off the dangles almost flush may work nicely, or just making them shorter than most I've seen in pictures on the site (although I'm thinking about leaving one longer set of them higher up on the wall).


I suppose on the the first things I'll need to figure out....Sitka Spruce, Western Hemlock, Western Redcedar, or Alaskan Yellow Cedar? The last two are sort of pipe-dream ish, I suppose. Together the wife and I are eligible to take 20,000 board foot of timber from the national forest each year (with a free permit) I'm doubtful that I could find
enough of those of the right size close enough to the water for me to fell and tow home.
Siktka Spruce and W. Hemlock....that's everywhere.

I'd be looking at logs in the 2 to 3 ft dia range.
I'm also wondering if either of those debark well using a pressure washer.....I'm lazy, and somehow I'd prefer being wet and splattered with shredded bark vs going to town with a bark spud. ;)

[eduncan911]

You can break out the chain saw and carve it anyway you like. (Most use scaffolding though, instead of the log-ends, was just mentioning an inexpensive alternative).

Personally, I'm cutting mine down near flush as well. But, I am saving that step until my very last choir as I may need them for something. Kind of like, "OK, all done. Now I can trim those back.". If, there is such a thing as being "done."

[LowKey]

You can break out the chain saw and carve it anyway you like. (Most use scaffolding though, instead of the log-ends, was just mentioning an inexpensive alternative).

Personally, I'm cutting mine down near flush as well. But, I am saving that step until my very last choir as I may need them for something. Kind of like, "OK, all done. Now I can trim those back.". If, there is such a thing as being "done."
:D
I think there's an old Chinese proverb that goes something like, "The only man who is finished working on his home is one who is dead".

I'll probably be tinkering with something right up to the point that the Grim Reaper shows up.
Then I'm going to get him to hold the other end of the board in place.

[Mosseyme]

We are using eastern hemlock but I don't know how it is compared to western hemlock. I do know it is a dream to peel compared to pine or poplar or any of the hardwoods. We had not done any peeling before we started ours and quite some time later we tried to peel poplar winter cut and a few others and we were like WHAT! I do like the fact that when peeled the wood is very smooth because the sap is not sticky like the pines and comes off completely including the cambium very easily, relatively speaking. Of course giving it a few months for the bark beetles to work on it may make it come off in 3-10 foot sheets. Also most of the bugs except the bark beetles don't like Hemlock so that is a plus.
About the pressure washing. We have 3200lb pw and pulling water from a tank filled from a creek with only about a 30' head and using a pressure pump assist we don't get enough pressure to peel anything. They I believe are made to be working off of water with pressure already behind it. Someone probably has a answer that would fix that.
As far as overdangles go I do like the longish overdangles and think that to short of ones look a little odd especially with really big logs but to each his own. We are cutting ours back more than I really want on the lower part because of decks and porches and practicality of getting around them
I would suggest as Ed said to leave them until complete. It is really hard i hear to put them back on.

[LowKey]

I would suggest as Ed said to leave them until complete. It is really hard i hear to put them back on.

:D
I can imagine.

[Mosseyme]

You probably already said somewhere but what area are you located?

[LowKey]

You probably already said somewhere but what area are you located?

ME? At the moment, the middle east (for my sins ;) )
My property is in SE Alaska, where I sincerely hope to grow deep roots.

[rocklock]

Oh, I'm sold on the technique.
Sitka Spruce, Western Hemlock, Western Red cedar, or Alaskan Yellow Cedar?
I'd be looking at logs in the 2 to 3 ft dia range.
Several comments... If you were not attending the class, I wouldn't bother...
Spruce has more taper than most, which has some limits...There are lots of beetle killed in Canada. WRC has some strength issues (in comparison to Doug Fir) and doesn't yellow cedar have a smell?
I have hemlock in my home and it is great. It dries a little weird (bumpy).
We measure logs at the small end and I think you are thinking thinking the big end... When you start talking to a real log guy and mention the large end he will know you are a beginner. So talk about 14 to 18 inch tops... Depending on taper they will be in your range...

Chinking can only be minimized my skill and careful matching of same species of very straight logs. A log index is most helpful. And if you want to whack you over dingles - knock you self out...

[eduncan911]

Ah, but it just feels great talking about the butt end.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/EEFWcvesUIz2CRO6YJC-thuqNUqWDzocjuxY0h_svjLQRGOgovfh=w1358-h1810-no

[LowKey]

Let's see what other harebrained ideas I have. Hmm....

Hip roof (as opposed to a gable roof which seems to be the norm here) , with between 8 to 12 ft of overhang. It adds a bit of complication to the build ( and therefore expense), but given that we'll be getting in around 140 inches of rain per year I want the roof to pretty much prevent any water from hitting the walls. Not sure If that's going to be something I can cantilever, but I have no objections to posts supporting the outer edges of the roof (say 4-5 feet in from the edge).
Added complication, and one sure to cause a ruckus:), I'm planning on a Scandinavian style sod roof. They have very nice rolls of roofing membrane for this purpose and it's actually a pretty easy roof to lay. Just one example- http://www.triton-chemicals.com/prodeb1.php

So- low slope, sod covered, hip roof with massive overhangs on all sides (with a wrap around deck underneath).

[rreidnauer]

I never cared much for the looks of a hip roof, but do understand their practicality. I don't think you could cantelever those distances without engineered roof trusses, which wouldn't be practical for your build location.

Actually, I have been weighing the thought of a sod roof. (I think I even started a thread somewhere) I developed a means of doing so on steeper pitched roofs AND provide a secondary water barrier by means of a "shingled planter" for lack of a better description.

[LowKey]

I never cared much for the looks of a hip roof, but do understand their practicality. I don't think you could cantelever those distances without engineered roof trusses, which wouldn't be practical for your build location. .
I think you're right, which is why I'm leaning towards posts supporting the roof just a few feet inward from the edge. On the plus side of things I wouldn't have any gables to frame in, so I have that going for me...which is nice.

I don't much like the appearance of steep sloped hip roofs. Shallow sloped hip roofs kinda grew on me.
Combination of necessity and being tempted by some very impractical homes with some attractive roof lines.
With the sheer volume of rain/number of rainy days/rain being blown about I don't see how else I'd be able to keep the logs at the gable ends from being wet pretty much every day. Wouldn't matter much how far out I extended the gable, The weather in the area is not remotely normal compared to most places on the planet, so leaning towards a hip roof isn't lack of faith in an extended gable roof per say.




Actually, I have been weighing the thought of a sod roof. (I think I even started a thread somewhere) I developed a means of doing so on steeper pitched roofs AND provide a secondary water barrier by means of a "shingled planter" for lack of a better description.

I'd be interested in hearing more about that.
One thought I'd had to accommodate it on a steeper pitched roof would be to lay down mesh/old fishing nets/ect with half draped over each side of the ridge line, then continue to put some soil on top. The idea being that the mesh would become entangled with the turfs roots and keep it from sliding on the slope. You could secure the mesh at the edge of the roof on both sides.

[Mosseyme]

That is interesting, I do like hip roof look especially on some of the village homes in Europe. I hadn't really thought of it with a log home. Are you doing a single story to keep the roof line really low. I am sure the weather is really wild and since you have not had a lot of year round time up there you may not really know
if it is for long days at a time or if there is time to dry out between. We have a 6' drip line on our eave side so that completely shields the top 3-4 logs of the 10 layers. We also have 12' overhang on the weather end and 7' on the other end. The 7' end will also have a carport with shed roof to protect the lower logs and the west side will have a porch to protect the lower logs. The East side which gets the least weather will have a porch only in the center third around the door. We will occasionally get some water on the lower logs but I plan to keep them treated well for extra protection. Are you doing a single story or more?

[project]

You could always do a wrap around porch. That would keep your walls dry. Just another option

[LowKey]

That is interesting, I do like hip roof look especially on some of the village homes in Europe. I hadn't really thought of it with a log home. Are you doing a single story to keep the roof line really low.

Yes, and no. :)
I'll be on a fairly steep slope so my piers are going to be pretty tall on the downhill side.
Right now my idea is to put up a one story cabin with massive overhangs on all sides and a wrap around deck. Later I'd like to use gambions and the ample supply of loose granite (look at the pictures of my beach) to build non load bearing walls (with some rigid insulation in the middle) just inside the drip line, with a sloped roof running from the cabin wall just below the deck and out over the top of the stone wall.
Yup, kinda like building the basement after the house is up.
Cray as it sounds, thats how a lot of rural homes in Thailand get done. The houses are on top of teak posts, and later on they pour a slab then infill with CMUs between the posts. This is sort of the same idea. I'm not worried about the stone gambion walls suffering any ill effect from being rained on, but I wouldn't want to count on masonry for load bearing in Alaska (earthquake country). Over here in the middle east I've seen some interesting stuff done with HESCO barriers (gambions).


I am sure the weather is really wild and since you have not had a lot of year round time up there you may not really know
if it is for long days at a time or if there is time to dry out between. We have a 6' drip line on our eave side so that completely shields the top 3-4 logs of the 10 layers. We also have 12' overhang on the weather end and 7' on the other end. The 7' end will also have a carport with shed roof to protect the lower logs and the west side will have a porch to protect the lower logs. The East side which gets the least weather will have a porch only in the center third around the door. We will occasionally get some water on the lower logs but I plan to keep them treated well for extra protection. Are you doing a single story or more?
Oh, the weather can get a bit wet and windy. Gusts of 100mph are not unheard of (not sustained windspeeds thank goodness), but rain can travel sideways now and then. As far as when stuff dries out, it can rain everyday all day for well over a month. I'm not going to count on anything that gets exposed to the rain every having a chance to dry out before summer. Hence the idea of the hip roof with massive overhangs, with rock walls (eventually) coming up from below. Kind of like pulling your rain hat down low on your head and bringing up the collar of your rain coat 'till just a narrow band of you is exposed.


So, yes and no to the single story. :D, and all plans subject to change if I see a better way to do it.

[LowKey]

http://www.vrbo.com/415025#


And here's a slightly more detailed description for the sod roof.
http://www.safeguardeurope.com/applications/green_roofs_pitched
http://www.safeguardeurope.com/applications/green_roofs

[LowKey]

Here's a picture off the net that may give a better idea of what I'm going for. A hip roof Instead of the gable roof with dormer shown, with a much more shallow slope coming out over the deck and extending out 4-6 feet past the edge of the deck.
http://www.vrbo.com/415025#

[LowKey]

http://www.vrbo.com/415025#https://imagesus-ssl.homeaway.com/mda01/98eade61-2a61-4ce2-ab54-e761861308fa.1.10

[Arrowman]

I have framed both hip and gable roofs before, and I will frame in a gable end any day of the week and twice on Sunday over messing with hip roofs.

I understand if you just don't like the look, but hips are by far more work. Gable ends are easy, especially if you have a lifting system or skylift. You can build it on the ground completely (from framing to moisture plane) and just hoist it up into place when you are done.

[Mosseyme]

Great ideas but I'm guessing he might have a time of it getting a tele out there! Though he might be able to use the RP with a winch to get it up there.

[Plumb Level]

A lot of posters are saying do what you want and what you like. But I'm going to make a plea for overdangles. They provide valuable roosting habitat for birds:

2970

But that is just me.

[LowKey]

The wall ends under the gable would still be soaked 9 months out of the year, even with ridiculous overhangs.
Maybe this will give a better idea of the climate:

Average humidity year round is 70%. Today's is 86%. (Daytime high Temp today is 50deg F)
We're expecting 1 1/2 inches of rain today, and that's a dry day for this time of year.
20 to 30 mph winds.
We get precipitation an average of 234 days out of the year.

I plan on building to keep my logs from ever being rained on.
Hip roofs may be a PITA, and may add time and expense to the construction process but I'm pretty sure it's less effort than having to deal with logs trying to rot on me later down he road. :eek:

In 99% of other build locales I think the gable end roof would be the only reasonable way to go. It's just that this falls into that other %1.

[rckclmbr428]

It would be easier to build a Gable roof, followed by a covered porch on the Gable ends, and use a water resistant material on the gables. You could still have windows on the gables

[Mosseyme]

That would be my other consideration.
With those huge overhangs going so low how would you ever get any light inside. I know the midnight sun and all that but in the fairly high humidity we currently live in the front of our house has a covered porch and the sun only gets a couple of hours a day a couple of months a year that even hits the roof of the porch. Under that roof we get only reflective sun and the cedar walls of the house on that side can get green pretty quickly. How will you keep the green growth off of the house under the huge overhangs especially if you are there only a month of the year?

[allen84]

A lot of posters are saying do what you want and what you like. But I'm going to make a plea for overdangles. They provide valuable roosting habitat for birds:

2970

But that is just me.

Your birds look tired.

[LowKey]

A lot of posters are saying do what you want and what you like. But I'm going to make a plea for overdangles. They provide valuable roosting habitat for birds:

2970

But that is just me.

Not much in the way of bird hunting up there, occasionally goose.


Last thing I'd want is to create roosting habitat for birds, either dead or alive.

The dead one's will draw bears in quickly, and the smell on the logs long after would still have them sniffing around.
The live ones.....oh boy. Aside from seabird guano being very unpleasant; the most likely birds to take up residence would be bald eagles. We have them the way NYC has pigeons, and if they started roosting on my house Uncle Sugar would give my house to them.

[LowKey]

That would be my other consideration.
With those huge overhangs going so low how would you ever get any light inside.

Angle of the roof would be quite shallow, so in the summer a good bit of light should hit the walls.
In the winter there isn't much sunlight to consider; the days get pretty short and the sky is pretty gray.


I know the midnight sun and all that

I'm not quiet far enough north for midnight sun. :D Longest daylight is around the end of June (Sunrise: 4:07 ,Sunset: 21:38)



but in the fairly high humidity we currently live in the front of our house has a covered porch and the sun only gets a couple of hours a day a couple of months a year that even hits the roof of the porch. Under that roof we get only reflective sun and the cedar walls of the house on that side can get green pretty quickly. How will you keep the green growth off of the house under the huge overhangs especially if you are there only a month of the year?

Within a year or so of the house being up I plan on being in residence full time. While I may take the odd contract off island after we move in, my wife would be there full time.*





*She'll no doubt be working hard at decimating the crab, shrimp, and salmon populations. ;)