compare "skip style log" to "stick frame"

[jsummerlin]

Over time there have been several/many people ask how much it costs to build a log home with this method only to hear a response such as "it depends on your area, design, size, economy, etc.
But...
What about THIS approach. Can anyone compare stick frame and buttpass log, self built WITH all other factors being equal.
Even best guesses would be useful. I respect you guys' opinions.
Approx same square footage.
Some things to compare:
1. overall costs
2. construction time
3. ability of a doityourselfer to handle most or all of it. ( the idea of framing a stick house blows my mind)
4. differences if any in obtaining permits
Thanks in advance for any responses. Like I said, I respect your opinions. This board/organization has some GREAT members, I DREAM of taking the class someday and being able to help/guide newbies in the right direction.

[Basil]

This isn't an exact reply to your question, but I will list you my expenses so far. I'm just now roofing, so this will be an inexact estimate, but it is at least a partial answer:

Foundation---------$10000
Logs-----------------$8000
Log delivery--------$1200
Rebar----------------$800
Rafters--------------$5000
Sheathing-----------$2500
Shingles-------------$600
Nails------------------$200
Althread--------------$300
Tools------------------$?
Equipment Rental----$5000
Hardware-------------$1000
Septic-----------------$3500
Water line-------------$1000
Windows--------------$1500
Lumber----------------$2000
------

$40,600


This is a rough estimate of each expense to get you under roof. Some of my costs are less than yours would be (like shingles) and some are maybe more(like equipment rental). This gets me mostly under roof but I don't have floors, porches, all my windows, any doors, Electric or plumbing, chinking,etc-

But keep in mind I'm building a 3000+ square foot home, too. Some of these expenses are out of hand just because of the size of this project.

I've worked in wood but never built a building before this project that was larger than about 12X12.

When I took the class there were two quotes that stuck in my head, and still resonate there-

"build as small as you can afford to" I didn't take this advice, unfortunately.

"Building your own log home is the hardest thing you'll ever do, unless you spend 30 years at a job you hate paying a bank to pay someone else to build it for you."

Obtaining permits is different for every person in every county in the country, so ymmv.

[Dthfrog]

I'm finishing up a house for my uncle. It's a 1200 sq. ft. stick built with 2x6 walls on top of a 3 car garage with poured concrete walls. When it's all said and done the total cost from start to finish will be about $130,000. It took me about a year to do and I subcontracted the HVAC and the concrete work.


Hope this helps. I'll see if I can get a breakdown of the cost.

[HDGib]

Just like any construction you can make it cost as much as you want to. As Basil said costs vary allot because of area and "wants" the class advises wait a couple of years to build. In that time you can find deals on some of the tools and materials. If you can dig your own septic, do your own foundation, (methods taught in class) Fall your own trees, Mill your own lumber or have it milled on site if you have the trees. There are many things that could GREATLY reduce some of the costs. That is why you don't get a straight answer. I have been collecting things all my life to do something like this. I have windows I got for free, Bathroom fixtures at yard sales. Lumber I have found deals on. And allot of things which would save me thousands compared if I was to go out and buy them when I need them. With this style of house you can use almost any type of windows any size you may have. With a stick house there are restrictions you have to follow because of the structure and support needs.

I would think that the comparisons between the above two posts would be a good guess. Basil's house may be much more elaborate then you want, you may not rent the equipment they did. You may chose not to do the same type of foundation.

I expect when I get done I will have about $35,000 in mine but that includes the 26 acres I bought in KY

Then there is the big question for you, if you had a choice which would you rather live in, a house like everybody else or a log home built with your own hands if both cost the same. You have to figure your labor into every estimate. We probably have not because it is a labor of love. As a lot of us Harley riders say there are ???want-a-bees??? and ???will bees??? it fits with log home builders too. It has been a dream for me since my first set of Lincoln Logs 40+ years ago. (and NO they don't resemble skip's methods)

[dave maiden]

Hi, This is a great question, which I have been spending a lot of time thinking about. In my area western Washington state, there are a couple companies which build basic stick built homes. They advertise for 38 a square foot. So a 1700 foot house is around 65000. You have to provide the site, septic, water, and paint it yourself. Also there is no garage. From my research so far, to build a log home of the same size, if you stack the logs yourself, and build the roof, floors, exterior doors, and windows. Then subcontract the wiring, plumbing, interior walls, cabinets, etc. The cost would be 75000 to 85000. The feel of the log home is amazing compared to a basic stick built house. Sure you can spiff up a stick built home by putting hardwood floors in, and cedar on the walls instead of sheetrock, but the cost will go up really quickly! The big trick is financing. Putting a deal together on a stick built home is much easier than going to the bank and getting a loan to build your own log home. hope this helps. dave

[jed]

Just for some point of reference, regarding the $38/sq. ft. building. When building new, it is typical to go by the rule of thirds. One third is site work (leveling, foundation, septic, backfill, grading, loam), one third is the cost of the land itself (this can vary greatly by region) and one third is the structure itself. We just priced out doing the sitework and setting the sills on a modular for a gentleman in our area. The modular (3500 sq. ft.) was about $110,000 delivered and assembled (not wired in and plumbed), the land was about $115,000 for 1 acre (a good price in that area) and the site work was about $109,000. It doesn't always work out that perfectly, but it tends to be a good gauge to go by for average stick building. The site work tends to be about equal to the stick construction. Small house = small foundation and septic/ big house = big foundation and septic.

Obviously this doesn't hold true for all areas or all individuals. At the end of the day, though, site work ain't cheap and significantly adds to the end cost of the project. That is a big reason why Skip's way is so much less expensive if done right. Just doing the foundation oneself saves tens of thousands of dollars off the project.

Hope that adds a little more depth to the discussion!

---

Jed

[akemt]

$38 a square foot? That is unreal! In most areas, from what I've seen on the web atleast, the cost of having someone else build for you is generally atleast double that. Here, the finished product (with the owners land already bought and paid for and it being cleared with a pad in place - another $50,000+ easily for the average sized lot here) the cost of new construction is $105 (on the cheap, not liscensed/insured side) to 125/sq ft for the "low-end average" construction range (liscensed, insured, and getting the best deals without any of the fancy stuff). Taking the painting, septic, plumbing, and electrical out of that total would NOT get it anywhere near $38/sq ft

While they can be helpful, don't take someone else's cost to build prices as comparable to your own. You can call a local realestate agent or a couple general contractors and get a simple cost/sq ft guide for your area in just a few minutes.

It is interesting to read about the rule of 3rds. I don't think it quite works in our fairly unique area, but what I tend to go by is more of a rule of 4ths for the building itself (excluding land and land work). If you take the estimate of $/sq ft and calculate that out for your finished cost of the house, in general, the dry-in materials (without labor) will cost roughly 1/4-1/3 of that ammount (dry-in being the structure itself, excluding electric, plumbing, finish work, appliances, etc).

So, lets say dh and I want to build a 2400 sq ft stick-built house. It'll be a full two story (that's cheaper here because of the foundation costs) at 1200 sq ft each. Total cost to have it built, excluding land itself and land work completely, would be about $280,000 on the lower end. So materials for the dry-in alone would run roughly $70,000. If my log home of that same size, for timbers, foundation, windows, doors, and roof alone costs less than that, we're in the money! Forget the fact that all of the interiors of my exterior walls are now log (less drywall), my heating bills will be considerably lower, and it'll have a MUCH higher selling price here simply because it is a log home. I really don't see keeping a log dry-in under $70,000 being a big stretch. In fact, I could probably get the entire place built for nearly that price --minus the land work, again.

And yes, this form of estimating does work in our area, atleast...We're just now getting the electrical into our addition, so I've got a good comparison. For our 600 sq ft addition, with us doing everything but the foundation work ourselves, we've only barely surpassed the 1/4 of the finished cost to have the dry-in built.

Personally, while my time/effort is factored into whether a log home is worth doing over a stick-built, I'd rather spend my own time than to pay for 6 months of someone else's time and be in debt 30 years for it.

[Cbear429]

So far I don't have to ask any questions. They are already being answered. Its nice to know folks who have the same passion, Log Homes.

Thanks. :)

[hawkiye]

From my research so far, to build a log home of the same size, if you stack the logs yourself, and build the roof, floors, exterior doors, and windows. Then subcontract the wiring, plumbing, interior walls, cabinets, etc. The cost would be 75000 to 85000. dave

Just curious what kind of log home that would be or at least getting a better idea of the specific research you have done.? The type of log homes we are talking about here are generally not the same as most built today and can be built for considerably less then most log homes with some sweat equity albeit in my opinion they are superior to the more popular log homes today.

Blayne