need advice on utilizing a mountain spring using gravity

[loggerblogger]

Ok so I just discovered a spring on our mountain side that is probably 200 feet or more above the site where our cabin will be built and 100 feet over. I started digging it out and and created about a 3x4 foot square around it. It doesn't flow at a great rate but certainly more than a seep. Could fill a gallon in about 3 minutes. My thought is to build some kind of concrete wall around it creating a 10 or 15 gallon "reservoir" that will have a maybe 3/4 inch pipe which will run 100 feet over to (2) 300 gallon tanks that will sit directly above the build site. so in this scenario i have two 300 gallon tanks of water some 200 feet above my future cabin.

My question is, now what? does it run straight to the water heater? the house? another tank? How does that much gravity fed water work to take a shower or do dishes? will I still need a pump at the house? I really don't know what to do, not even sure if my idea of "tapping" the spring will work.

Any thoughts? Anyone have the blessing of a gravity fed spring to use? any help would be appreciated.

Oh and one more thing, I tried to post a pic of it here but when I click on the insert pic link it then asks for a URL. My pics are jpeg in my documents but cant seem to figure out how to post it. Anyone? Thanks

[Little Eagle]

Hey Logger, so first thing is if you want to do a url pic it is easy to start up a photobucket account. There are free andhave some pretty good space in them.

As for the gravity water my parents have gravity water. And so i was talking to my mom who grew up a plumber, she was telling me you will need at least a gallon a min to be able for the spring up with the water demand you use.

[rckclmbr428]

Do you know if it's a year round spring? A lot of the smaller ones only run in the wet season

[rocklock]

My well produces .6 gallons per minute... or 864 gallons per day. .33 gallons per min equals 475 gallons per day. I have been told by the Septic folks that the average family of 4 uses 200 gal per day. So, IMHO you have more than enough water.

I have a neighbor that has gravity water and he has a 1500 gallon water tank. I think he may have a booster pump because he has great water pressure in his green house... He uses it for Irrigation for his very large garden.

My ninety seven year old uncle has a 3 gallon artesion well that has a pressure tank and pump for his house. He has perfect water...

He has had it tested... I presume you will do the same...

[loggerblogger]

ok to answer both replies, no I do not know if it is year round, however, I do have a spring down in the lowest portion of the property that is year round and been that way for 100 years as per locals, there are several others on neighboring property the same. I will be monitoring it this summer to see. as for flow rate, wouldnt 600 gallons of stored water be enough to supply normal household use especially if the spring would be refilling the tanks every moment that no water is being used? I mean sure i guess if we used a lot of water at once we could run through 600 gallons, but I tried to think of it like a water heater for instance: we can take 1 or 2 showers of hot water before the 40 gallon water heater runs out, my thinking was based along those lines. I guess Ill have to keep a close eye on it and see how it flows. I may be able to dig it out a bit more to produce better flow. Thanks for the responses.

[loggerblogger]

thanks rock yeah i totally will have it tested as soon as I make sure it is functioning well enough. Thanks, those numbers are encouraging.

[Bear Mountain]

I have been told by engineers for every fifteen feet of elevation you get about five pounds water pressure/ But you have to have the constant supply and the bigger the holding tank on the hill will increase head pressure so figure 5 pounds for every fifteen feet and you will a little more than that I use that type of system to water wine grapes

[donjuedo]

I learned in SCUBA class that pressure goes up 1 atmosphere (~15 psi) for every 33 feet of depth. So at 200 feet, I'd estimate you have 90 psi, which is great. It's more than enough. I'd run it to the house, where you still may need to treat the water by filtering, sterilizing (maybe), and softening. A water test is important, but you're off to a great start!


Peter

[loghousenut]

I lived a lot of years off of gravity water from an open spring. I think you are on the right track. You can either measure the fall and do the math, or do as I would and just plumb it up and see bow much pressure you have. Adding a pressure pump later is cheap and easy. Adding extra storage is also easy but I suspect you won't need it.

Use 1-1/2" pipe or larger. Small pipe causes loss of flow .

This ain't brain surgery. Homesteads have been winging it for a lot of years and doing fine.

[Little Eagle]

Yeah I think everyone here has made great points, i hope it all works i would love to hear about it. Oh and another thing make sure you dont have any cows wondering around in your spring!

[Mosseyme]

Growing up in Clyde NC. Our only water source was a spring maybe 150' elevation above the house. We had a 500 gal tank and never had trouble with water or pressure for many years. My dad dug into the spring bed, found the best source, put in a 24" long 12 x 12" flue tile standing on end over the best spring source and filled it with gravel for about a foot drilled a hole for the 1 1/2" pipe to come out and go down to the tank. This is the only filter we ever had on it. Had a cap over the tile to keep out leaves and such. They eventially had to put in a new tank due to leaks but folks up there are still using that spring.
At our current home we have a spring at the bottom of our drive a couple hundred feet down the hill. We dug way back 15' into the hill to clean out the spring which had been being used by the next door neighbor for years. It had caved in through the years and had lots of sediment in this limestone country. We filled the trench with gravel and buried a pipe in it then covered it all with fill dirt. The pipe exited into the tank which really only holds about 200 gals or less. We laid a submers pump in the bottom of it covered it with screening and that is our water source since 1985. There is a creek just a couple of feet lower than the spring exit so if it floods we have to clean out the tank and clorine it but that doesn't happen often. We have a pressure tank between the water inlet to the house and the water heater. With the 150-200 gals we only have trouble in a real hot dry summer if we try to wash cloths and water the lawn at the same time.
One thing you have to check. If you are going to be affected by codes ect. some counties are outlawing springs as your water source. Better check. At my mothers house she can use the spring by grandfather rights but they will not let any of the other houses hook up to it now but they come down to it and fill up their water bottles

[loggerblogger]

Thank you everyone this has been very helpful. Yes I am sure we are allowed spring water since that is the box we checked when we applied for the septic permit. Having read these responses, I am inclined to utilize both springs that we have. There is one about 200 feet above our proposed build site and another maybe 50 feet below that already has a spring box around it and was told has been used by the neighbors across the street years ago. We feel so blessed to have this "problem" of which water source to use. Also feel blessed to have the LHBA. Attending the June 6-7 class this year and cant wait become a member and get started on our dream homestead. Thank you again for all your input I will most certainly will let everyone know the progress because I am most certainly going to need more help.

Grateful in Northeast Tennessee,
Matthew

[mountainguide]

I have built a few gravity feed systems in the mountains and they are the best thing. I estimated 1lbs psi for every foot in elevation and it worked out just fine. Your numbers are there so no worries. LHN is right on the money that you need bigger pipe. If you can afford it go 3" but no less than 2" at that distance. We built a cistern by the cabin. We dug a hole 10' or so and stuck a galvanized section of culvert in the ground and poured cement in the bottom to seal it. Went down and bought a $150 pump and expansion tank combo and it had all the pressure in the world. We ran off generator to power the pumps. You could bypass the pumps and have straight gravity pressure as well. You have to dig below frost line and put in a junction box and split the lines with one running to the cabin and the other a discharge line for the winter to prevent pipe freezing. For hot water we had a bosch tankless system (@$600) and it needed no power but propane and worked great. Good luck and confirm its a year round spring or you will just have water part of the year.

[donjuedo]

The galvanized section of pipe has Zinc. That's the coating. We need Zinc in our diet, but too much can be a problem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc#Toxicity

If the pH of the water is acidic, it may leach Zinc into the drinking water. Sorry, I have no numbers, or even experience, but I would learn more if using galvanized metal to store water. I like concrete better, so will likely go that route.


Peter

[mountainguide]

I agree concrete is better but where we were you are not going to get concrete up there. Our water was a mountain aquifer that flowed from the top down creating a year round creek. The water was so pure it was white in color. We drank directly from the stream for years. Our drinking water was pumped into a separate plastic holding tank that was elevated and ran around 25psi which was fine for the taps. Our galvanized cistern was for everything else. Showers, toilets etc. I am more concerned with drinking bleach water in the city than any potential zinc contaminants. Galvanized pipe is still used in municipal drinking water systems and I think any potential zinc leaching would be negligible. I am more concerned with contaminants entering the cistern and that's why I don't drink from cisterns at all. If I didn't have a clean spring do drink from I would have bought water for personal consumption. Even concrete cisterns require a cap of bleach every now and then. Had one of those too and still bought water for personal consumption.