Purchased my Land! Tug Hill Region New York

[DanBlue]

Hello Everyone,

We just recently closed on 8.6 acres of awesome land in the Tug Hill region of upstate NY, about 10 minutes from Camden. Since we were financially able to pretty much pull down most of the purchase with cash, (we only had to finance about 30% of it) I'll be planning on attending the class within the next year, or as soon as I'm able...The plan is to build a small one room butt & pass cabin with small loft..The land is in a remote area (the whole area is pretty much remote) but the beauty is we are off of a county road with access to electric/phone!! We have a spring fed brook on the property..the water runs fast in areas over stones, etc...it's really cool! There are probably around 1,000 feet or more of old stone walls inside of the property...I would imagine old land boundries likely from the mid 19th century...lots of timber..mature maple, spruce, cherry, etc....just beautiful.

So does anyone have any experience in this area as far as building goes? A lot of folks are actually in the logging business up there, and there is actually a timber company just a mile or so up the road from our land..I saw what looked like log home logs on a big flat bed truck in the lumber yard recently when we drove by, and the town is full of machinery for sale/hire for logging, digging, excavation, etc...

Do I happen to have any neighbors on this message board? Thanks as always, and our first step is done! Now on to planning the butt & pass dream!

[panderson03]

congrats on the purchase! big step:)
I'm not building you your neck of the woods though.
perhaps someone who is will post here:)
welcome to the forums!

[Blondie]

Wow! It sounds wonderful!

Blondie

[WNYcabinplannin]

I'm about 3 hours away to your west. I'm sure you know tug hill area gets a LOT OF SNOW, 2-300' a year to the others on here. I'd consider a 12/12 pitch roof with steel, and you'll likely be oversizing the rafters or decreasing the spacing. Sourcing logs will be easier than for most people. Only problem is international paper owns a majority if it and they don't often sell to the public.
After you take the class, send me a PM. My forester likely has connections with other foresters around your area.
Great that you're starting small. Enjoy the class!

[spiralsands]

I'm south of you in Syracuse but my land is in Fulton County at the southwest corner of the Adirondacks. Congratulations on the land purchase. Welcome to "Lake Effect Land"!

[DanBlue]

Thanks all for the responses!

Thanks WNYcabinplannin, Yes I understand the snow is epic up there....fortunately, there is an abundance of hard and soft wood on the property for fuel..not to mention we have access to electric. I'll pay close attention to the roof as you've mentioned. I appreciate the forester connection idea, I'm pretty certain I'll be able to find a really good affordable solution up there by hook or by crook. The reasons why we jumped on this land are numerous the main 3 things about this land: resources, resources, resources....lots of trees, close proximity to the community of Camden which has an abundance of any and all farming/outdoor resources you could imagine, not to mention grocery stores, Tractor Supply store, etc...year round water supply, listed as one of the top salmon fishing areas worldwide, numerous deer and other wildlife, spring fed brook on property that flows year round, access to electric from the nicely paved county road...My taxes are $700 per year at present which is perfectly fine with me...We have an antique wood powerboat, and The salmon river res is close by and Lake Oneida is about 20 minutes away, so this property/area has more available than I would have ever dreamed I would find...Also, I'm simply in love with the antique stone walls throughout the property...it is straight out of a story book!

[DanBlue]

Hello Spiralsands, I was planning on sending you a message as I've seen a few of your past posts talking about the area of NY you're in...Thanks for reaching out! I'm sure we will be in communication as time goes on..

[spiralsands]

All the reasons you listed for your choice of location I remember using as criteria for my land too. Water was number one. I'm on a beautiful state road that has a history that goes back before the Revolutionary War. I too have rock walls on my property but they are buried deep in the woods and covered with growth. My daughter and I discovered them on a walk around the perimeter when we were gathering GPS points for the boundary.

Unfortunately for me, my daughter has dropped out of my home building plans (It happens.) and I am on my own. So I had been stalled as I tried to re-imagine the work done alone. I had just come up with a plan and now, as a result of a set-back with my little house foundation, I've been questioning the entire meaning of life. I'll figure it out I guess but I'm nervous about how things will look over another winter.

Oh, P.S.: If you need logs, I gots 'em. More than 2/3 of my property is old forest.

[Mrs. Len]

Congratulations on your new property! If you are planning on building a one-room butt and pass log cabin w/loft, it would benefit you a lot to get in on the upcoming class Feb 14th & 15th. Currently, my Len is currently building one. He has a thread on the Member's Forum.

[DanBlue]

I'm about 3 hours away to your west. I'm sure you know tug hill area gets a LOT OF SNOW, 2-300' a year to the others on here. I'd consider a 12/12 pitch roof with steel, and you'll likely be oversizing the rafters or decreasing the spacing. Sourcing logs will be easier than for most people. Only problem is international paper owns a majority if it and they don't often sell to the public.
After you take the class, send me a PM. My forester likely has connections with other foresters around your area.
Great that you're starting small. Enjoy the class!

Sorry for the late response WNYcabinplannin, but I've been researching the Tug Hill region and not only is most of the land owned by the state and private individuals as recreational, The Nature Conservancy (just to name one entity vested in the region) has a great amount of skin in the game in The Tug Hill region...below is a bit from their website.

The Nature Conservancy began focusing on Tug Hill in 1998. Four years later the Conservancy purchased a 45,000-acre property that comprises fully one-third of Tug Hill’s core forest; at the time, this was the Conservancy’s largest-ever acquisition in New York. The acquisition of this tract also was groundbreaking in that it was supported by the local community. The Conservancy, the Tug Hill Commission and the East Branch of Fish Creek Working Group, a local group of stakeholders, worked together to ensure that conservation priorities were integrated with local desires.

Our 45,000-acre acquisition permanently protected important natural areas, provided new public access opportunities while continuing traditional recreational activities, and required sustainable forestry practices that safeguard Tug Hill’s natural resources and guarantee a steady flow of timber products off the majority of the property.

[WNYcabinplannin]

I'm drooling over all the logging trucks you'll see driving by. Write down phone numbers. You'll find truckers who'll take cash for an extra load of big ones at the end of their day
Zap me anytime I'll come up and we'll fish :)
Fletch

[DanBlue]

I'm drooling over all the logging trucks you'll see driving by. Write down phone numbers. You'll find truckers who'll take cash for an extra load of big ones at the end of their day
Zap me anytime I'll come up and we'll fish :)
Fletch


Thans a million WNYcabinplannin! Next time I'm up in Florence (that's where the land is) I'm planning on doing some much needed sniffing around town, etc..

Although the snow is epic up there, I am surprised there's not more folks on this board that are seriously considering upstate NY for land purchase..Perhaps there are more folks on these boards, I guess I'm just not seeing them...land is beautiful, resources are plentiful, I spoke to the building codes guy today and things are pretty relaxed, and the land is priced really well..I paid just under 22k for 8.6 acres.

Take care, and I will reach out to you sometime down the road on the fishing! We're about 10 minutes from the Salmon River Res.

[rreidnauer]

......I am surprised there's not more folks on this board that are seriously considering upstate NY for land purchase..Perhaps there are more folks on these boards, I guess I'm just not seeing them....NY SAFE Act might be one good reason. Modeled after CA law, but made even more oppressive, so for a generalized group of folks who seem to value liberty, self-sufficiency, and non-interference, it may be too much freedom to throw away.

[John W]

Agree with Rod on the SAFE Act. Also, aren't taxes pretty high once you put a house on your land? Having said that, I still search for NY land on a regular basis, with an Adirondack dream still in my mind.

[DanBlue]

I have a C&R license, and the weekend we closed on the land, we camped out..I set up a "rough" shooting range on the property and went hog wild with my antique Russian SKS, my mosins, my 1940 K98, and our 38 revolver..hog wild..set up 50 feet away from any neighbor's home (which there aren't any, and if you get permission to shoot closer to the neighbors house, you can shoot as close as you wish) although the fellow that bought the 8 acres next to me (according to my land agent) has a gun collection to die for..So it certainly meets my needs..The reason I like the idea of building a hand made rustic log home, speaks to the reason I'm not impressionable by these plastic, modern powder puff AR-15 "mega mag" lets play GI Joe tactical weapons....If I can not hold off an oppressive person or a group of aggressive folks with a 10 round sks along with bolt action Mosins or K98s, then the problems are so severe, that anyone trying to defend their homestead with any legal small arms anywhere in this country is in serious trouble, and is going to lose that fight...quickly.....I don't believe one can legally own a tank in this country that shoots live shells or a surface to ground missile system ......I'm into old school hand tools and iron sights. Speaking on taxes, the current annual taxes on the land are $700 per year.....Once I build the house, as long as I'm under 2,000 or 3,000 sq feet, I'll still be at less than 2k per year, so I don't understand the reasoning on high taxes...I certainly wish I was only paying $300 per year, but it is what it is....I could buy 40 acres of land in many parts of the country for $1,000 per acre, but there's no water..no forrest...now THAT'S an issue for me....I would simply advise folks do their homework..upstate NY and/or The Adirondack region of this state is not Manhattan..it's practically a different country altogether....Who ever thought a boy from Kentucky would be such an ambassador for the state of New York! Go figure!

[rreidnauer]

Had my C&R until the last administration change, and ATF started breaking their own laws. I have many of the firearms you mention, as well as a bunch more old west antiques. I have one project, an old antique military weapon, British Sten that would be a 'no fly' up there. But I do like some of the modern stuff too, with another project going through SBR approval process. (not sure if I could do that either) But the point of bringing up SAFE Act is not whether one can get a job done with 10 (or 7) shots, but rather whether individuals are giving up rights and freedoms. And that one example is just a sample of a trend.

Oh, yes, taxes would be my #2 reason. (my taxes are <$50/yr and will be ~$600/yr with the house complete) Taxes reflect trend. More government involvement, (some would argue interference) equals more taxes, so again that's a one-two punch for me.

Snow is #3

[spiralsands]

The SAFE Act is only here for a year or so. The excuses people use to slam NY have been around forever. Guns don't make us free in New York. Elections make us the government we want. No one is lurking at my property looking to see what guns I have and next week I get to vote anyway.

Sometimes I'm glad people go ahead and believe myths and rumors about NY. I prefer to see people around me who love it here and want to stay. I wish all the unhappy people would move south.

[DanBlue]

Had my C&R until the last administration change, and ATF started breaking their own laws. I have many of the firearms you mention, as well as a bunch more old west antiques. I have one project, an old antique military weapon, British Sten that would be a 'no fly' up there. But I do like some of the modern stuff too, with another project going through SBR approval process. (not sure if I could do that either) But the point of bringing up SAFE Act is not whether one can get a job done with 10 (or 7) shots, but rather whether individuals are giving up rights and freedoms. And that one example is just a sample of a trend.

Oh, yes, taxes would be my #2 reason. (my taxes are <$50/yr and will be ~$600/yr with the house complete) Taxes reflect trend. More government involvement, (some would argue interference) equals more taxes, so again that's a one-two punch for me.

Snow is #3

The problem with trends in our Union (The whole US) is they seem to trickle into other states..sometimes quickly..some times slowly..look at casino gambling in the US in 1990, and now look at it. There were States 20 years ago that would NEVER have allowed casino gaming within the State..Absolutely never happen!!! Now it's the rule not the exception in almost every State....amazing how that works isn't it? Same will hold true with taxes, gun legislation, etc., etc...perhaps a few rough n' ready Western/Northwestern states will hold out the longest, and end up in the best "freedoms intact" position 30 years from now, but only few. I spoke with the tax assessor for my county, and for what we want to build on the land, our tax bill will be around $1,400.00 per year..I can live with that with no heartburn at all..especially since thousands of fishermen, hunters and snowmobile fun seekers are currently paying on average $140 per night to rent cabins..so I do plan to rent the cabin out the equivelent of 2 to 3 weeks collectively per year...

We currently live in the Lehigh Valley region of Pennsylvania and the snow was no joke this last season..snow happens, so I'll just prepare appropriately...The resources I plan to keep on the property in NY will certainly help manage the epic snow when it's bad up there, and folks have lived in this region for 200 years, so....the snow can clearly be managed..it's called living in the outdoors!

[DanBlue]

Agreed spiralsands..too many people are impressionable by the Fox Comedy Show...I love turning that station on for a laugh sometimes..I'm not kidding...Listen, County road 70 that runs in front of my property in Florence NY (and all the other county roads around Camden, and the Tug Hill region) are absolutely BEAUTIFUL! The counties up here clearly appropriate the tax money to keep the place beautiful and the roads perfect...As much as I hate to say it being a Souther boy, the rural highways and forest areas in Tennessee and Kentucky are dirty with pot holes, nothing is manicured, etc...it's a shame...The Tug Hill region looks straight out of a story book..it completly surprised me as I had my own idiotic impressions of what the "country" would be like in upstate NY...boy was I ever wrong!

[DanBlue]

I can't believe I forgot to mention the number 1 reason I even started looking for land in upstate NY in the first place!

Two Words: MARCELLUS SHALE.

As we live in PA, I naturally started looking in the Poconos/Jim Thorpe area (not really the kind of sprawling, old growth forrest land available like I wanted, not many 6 plus acre plots available, and a good amount of the land is located in those cheesy communities with fees, and way overcrowded really..never found one piece of land for sale with running stream or brook) then I started looking in Western PA..I call it "Deer Hunter the Movie" region, then West Virginia and at some point it dawned on me that all of these areas are smack dab in the middle of the Marcellus Shale sweet spot....no thank you!

Regardless if I owned the mineral rights to the land or not ( I would not purchase any land without these rights..period.) and I don't think the fracking is all that dangerous (except for the unnatural earthquakes and sink holes it's caused in parts of North Texas & Oklahoma) I don't want any of that drama anywhere near my homestead, Although I am glad we have these natural resources under our feet in the event of a crisis...

Here's the deal. If the geological surveys show shale on your land, the powers that be will get it if they desire...especially these counties where people are paying $100 per year in property taxes...that game will change real quick because manicipalaties need revenue and it's just going to get worse..and they will get that revenue by hook or by crook. The stat or county will call it a "National Security" issue and then you are cooked!

Doesn't matter what your deed says...doesn't matter what "freedoms" one might think they have in a certain state..either they will rewrite legislation in the middle of the night, or they will grab the resources by drilling sideways...sure, perhaps they will pay you handsomely for the right if one is lucky, but it's not for me...Of course what I'm describing is a big if..but I'm simply not one to take this even remote risk with my future..

[eduncan911]

Welcome Dan!

I'm in the Hudson Valley, down near NYC. I know that's pretty far from the rest, but it's NY.

I hope to be breaking ground this summer. :-)

[Smith783]

Hey New Yorkers! Just wanted to say hey and I am glad to see you guys in my neck of the woods. I just finished the class a week ago and can't wait to start building!! I am just about to close on some land in Upstate and couldn't be more excited about it. I have wanted to build a homestead my entire life and I am so close now I can all but touch it. Any other homesteaders out there? I would love to hear anything you have to say about your experiences, your land/farm, projects, etc. I could chat on the topic all day. And anyone in the area who needs a hand doing anything cabin or homestead related feel free to give me a shout. I love meeting my neighbors of the North and will do whatever I can to help you guys out. So great to be a part of all this. Be well everyone!!

[WNYcabinplannin]

Congrats!!!

[eduncan911]

Congrats Dan, on both accounts!

[smokerdude]

Hello Dan and welcome. I own about 75 acres in Cleveland NY, not too far from you. I've been clearing land for two years now and plan to start building this year. Have not seen a post from you in awhile. Hope all is well. Keep the dream alive!

[DanBlue]

Hello everyone! I'm still kicking, just been busy with work and dreaming..now that the weather is about to warm up and I've finally bout the 4x4 I need (a fully restored 1978 Jeep Cherokee) we plan on getting up to our land in Florence NY as soon as the weather warms just a bit more...We went camping up there in November and it was actually nice..cold but now snow so it worked out great. We have yet to take the class, but hoping to get it done soon..

I'll try to stay in better touch on here! Welcome aboard Smith783 & thanks for reaching out educan911..lets all stay in touch!

Danny

[DanBlue]

You know, some of my friends give me a bit of a hard time for buying land in the upstate NY Tug Hill region...the snow, the designated wetlands (My homesite is 300' or more from any wetland boundary) on a section of my property and surrounding properties but guess what? That is the reason I bought it!!! THAT IS THE REASON DEVELOPERS HAVE NOT DEVELOPED THIS WILDERNESS REGION, and it will stay wild and natural! More privacy, more quiet, less people, less building, less traffic..that was the point! I feel like one of the fortunate few that I chose 8.6 acres in Western upstate NY..I've seen snowshoe hare, woodpeckers, and deer on the property during daylight, so it truly is an untouched area..I love it.

[etd66ss]

Can all you New Yorkers share where you plan to look for your logs? I'm over near Niagara Falls.

[thoner7]

I am near Rochester. I've spoken to three loggers and one landowner so far. Gonna have to follow up with them in a month or two and see if they have found me anything.

[spiralsands]

Hello again my New York compatriots. I've been away from the forum for a long while. Been soul searching, redirecting, evaluation, letting my hair grow long, examining mortality, feeling lost....and now I'm back. Boy oh boy have I gone full circle. I have mentally and emotionally trekked through giving up on all the plans I set up here and going overseas somewhere. From losing one's partner and trying to hold on to the rest, to not wanting to live anywhere at all and wondering what the F I'm doing here at all. Somehow, the light flickered back on this month as I started to look for another home to get out from under the mortgage I took when we got here 5 years ago. The searches for another house and the inevitable requirement to sink money into it brought me to a property in Dolgeville that began to look very attractive to me. Then I found myself searching Adirondack homes and then came the knock, knock...gently on the head...I'm already in the Adirondacks. Just 4 miles from that historic ball and chain house in town is my very own Winterwood. Courage, courage. My woods are waiting. I drove out there Sunday on a lark and looked around. I have big honking trees, probably about 15 acres of them. Monsters. In big stands.

Guess I better dig out my old school books...I need to get my 30x30 plans stamped CAUSE I'M BUILDING ME A HOUSE!!!

[panderson03]

spiralsands, YOU HAVE BEEN MISSED!!
so glad you checked in.

cannot wait to hear more about your cabin building journey:)

[LowKey]

Hello again my New York compatriots. I've been away from the forum for a long while. Been soul searching, redirecting, evaluation, letting my hair grow long, examining mortality, feeling lost....and now I'm back. Boy oh boy have I gone full circle. I have mentally and emotionally trekked through giving up on all the plans I set up here and going overseas somewhere. From losing one's partner and trying to hold on to the rest, to not wanting to live anywhere at all and wondering what the F I'm doing here at all. Somehow, the light flickered back on this month as I started to look for another home to get out from under the mortgage I took when we got here 5 years ago. The searches for another house and the inevitable requirement to sink money into it brought me to a property in Dolgeville that began to look very attractive to me. Then I found myself searching Adirondack homes and then came the knock, knock...gently on the head...I'm already in the Adirondacks. Just 4 miles from that historic ball and chain house in town is my very own Winterwood. Courage, courage. My woods are waiting. I drove out there Sunday on a lark and looked around. I have big honking trees, probably about 15 acres of them. Monsters. In big stands.

Guess I better dig out my old school books...I need to get my 30x30 plans stamped CAUSE I'M BUILDING ME A HOUSE!!!

YES!!!


Get to it!!!! If you've got 15 acres of monster trees then you also have barter power with anyone who needs wood. So go forth and kick some ass like we know you can do.;)

[LowKey]

Double tap! :cool:

[MPeterson1020]

Hello again my New York compatriots. I've been away from the forum for a long while. Been soul searching, redirecting, evaluation, letting my hair grow long, examining mortality, feeling lost....and now I'm back. Boy oh boy have I gone full circle. I have mentally and emotionally trekked through giving up on all the plans I set up here and going overseas somewhere. From losing one's partner and trying to hold on to the rest, to not wanting to live anywhere at all and wondering what the F I'm doing here at all. Somehow, the light flickered back on this month as I started to look for another home to get out from under the mortgage I took when we got here 5 years ago. The searches for another house and the inevitable requirement to sink money into it brought me to a property in Dolgeville that began to look very attractive to me. Then I found myself searching Adirondack homes and then came the knock, knock...gently on the head...I'm already in the Adirondacks. Just 4 miles from that historic ball and chain house in town is my very own Winterwood. Courage, courage. My woods are waiting. I drove out there Sunday on a lark and looked around. I have big honking trees, probably about 15 acres of them. Monsters. In big stands.

Guess I better dig out my old school books...I need to get my 30x30 plans stamped CAUSE I'M BUILDING ME A HOUSE!!!

WOO HOO!!! You go girl! Been thinking of you and wondering how you are. :) So glad to see you back.

[spiralsands]

YES!!!


Get to it!!!! If you've got 15 acres of monster trees then you also have barter power with anyone who needs wood. So go forth and kick some ass like we know you can do.;)

Barter power....why don't I ever think of these good ideas??

[spiralsands]

Hello Dan and welcome. I own about 75 acres in Cleveland NY, not too far from you. I've been clearing land for two years now and plan to start building this year. Have not seen a post from you in awhile. Hope all is well. Keep the dream alive!


Hey Smoker dude, I live in Cicero too.

[adamcee]

Like you I've been away from LHBA and started lighting a fire under ass about getting a cabin started on my property. I got 4 years left before I retire and want this as a spring, summer and fall place to live and snow bird outta here when all that snow falls.
I have 34 acres in Norway and not to far from Dolgeville. Good luck on your 30x30!!!!!

Adam

[DanBlue]

Happy Holidays everyone! I'm not on the site nearly as much as I would like, & still have yet to attend the class...Nonetheless, I planted 100 white spruce trees on my land in NY this las season, and hope to start a build soon. I'm thinking of building a nice two car sized board & batten garage on a slab and then running electricity to it. This way, I have a covered area for materials & electricity once I start the cabin...We shall see!

[rreidnauer]

I planted 100 white spruce trees on my land in NY this las season, and hope to start a build soon.

You're going to have to give those white spruces a little more time, I think. ;-)

[EBuggey]

Hello everyone!

I am from Doylestown PA. About 45 minutes away from Camden. I am just about to start on my own Log Home building journey. I took the class in February of '17 and I am currently looking at land.

I am always looking for other builders in the area and any advice!

Ed