reality check

[Darin]

I've not taken the class yet and we plan to in Feb, but I need to have you guys tell me if I'm being unrealistic here. The plan is to build next year. We have an idea of what we want to build but suspect that will change after the class. I've read on blogs that the logs need to be seasoned for several months before assembly. Is this the case? If so I may have to come up with plan B.

There is so much we don't know . . .

[thoner7]

there is no seasoning required with this system

[blane]

Green is no problem with LHBA method. Other methods have to season out. Building by myself with my wife and son using B&t took me 4 years though. To do it in one year would have meant doing it full time.

[StressMan79]

Dunno which blogs you have been reading, but if you build a notched style, you better season for years.

Good luck getting done in one season.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Forum Runner

[loghousenut]

Ditto all of the above. Do you really care about your plan or is it just a plan? It's most likely a plan that was made whilst thinking about a kit house and a 30 year mortgage. If that's the case, you will learn about an amended plan when you go to class.

That may make you think that your dreams will be crushed in Vegas... True, dreams have been crushed in Vegas, but that usually has to do with bright lights and controlled substances. LHBA will most likely generate a whole new set of dreams based on things like sweat, and family, and accomplishment, and a home that you build with your own hands that your Grankids will leave to their children.

Somewhere in your family tree you'll find the last person in your lineage who paid cash for the family home. My Son is 22 and his parents are the last in his lineage... so far. He and his love are saving to pay cash for their first home. It can still be done, but not with the type of log home that you've been thinking of. Take the class and let your dreams evolve.

If I were you two and all those kids, then yes... A year would be unrealistic. In the end, the kids won't mind the wait. It is only your adult drive and enthusiasm, coupled with your fancified view of how life is leaving you behind, that makes you worried about months or years. Raise the kids and give them something to look back on.




Yeah, I know... Mighty loose words for a fat ole man with a half built pile of firewood. Just take the class.

[blane]

LHN has been the most profound encouragement for me with his words of wisdom. With 5 kids living in a 35 year old single wide for four years I might have given up a few times if it were not for him pretty much telling me to suck it up. But we pressed on and now have a paid for house that still needs some more interior doors and a few more kitchen cabinets that we are saving cash to pay for, not to mention, I am catching up on some play time with my littles before jumping back in to build mode.

This is not the modern day American dream "2 car garage and a 30 year mortgage". Its lots of hard work and a great deal of satisfaction in the end. So, think about parking a used trailer house on your lot and take as much time as you need and have something to leave the kids besides debt.

[Darin]

I'll start this repeating my closing from the first post. There is much we don't know.

Money and the debt free lifestyle aside (I don't disagree with the philosophy), why does it take so long? Is it the driving of the rebar, the chinking or what? I'm used to stick built and I as a project manager I know I can usually speed things up by adding labor. What I'm seeing is passing comments that indicate that you can't do that. Why? I'm sure we will get that answer once we take the class. If the answer is proprietary I understand, I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

[Mosseyme]

With added hired labor it can certainly speed things up. Just make sure you have help that can follow instructions and not try to do things like they did it somewhere else. It seems helps always want to tell you how so and so would do it. All depends on your own needs, your lot, your equipment, your time input, your logs, your codes, ect, ect, ect. I believe the fireman in Texas built his start to move in just about a year. The guys building two at once are moving along quite quickly, looks like an Ohio build may take about 2 years, Arizona build took a year and half to get permitted but are moving at lightening speed now, most take 2-4, some take much more. There are many builds at different stages going on currently, you get access to the good and bad from those folks on the other side. It really helps to have all these other people posting their issues and solving them. Many times someone has put out a problem and how they fixed it just in time so I don't have to ask.

[BoFuller]

I sped mine up only because the county has an 18 month period allowed. Then new permits, under new code, at new rates. I wasn't going through that again so I got help. 95% of help ends up giving you ulcers, because they think they know better. I found a one in a million that not only knows how, but runs everything by me, knowing that I'm the one who is going to be living there. I would still be stacking the 4th course if it wasn't for Scott.

[StressMan79]

9 women can't make a baby in a month.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Forum Runner

[loghousenut]

9 women... Now THAT is a classic.

One or two people trying to build a really cool stick house, without going in debt too far. And did I mention that they have never done it before, or they work full time, or that they live 3 hours away?

Me, I am just old and lazy and enjoying the process. Your mileage may vary. The LHBA thing is just not the same as most other ways of doing it. I think that's part of why I like it. You''ll probably agree.

[Mrs. Len]

My Len took the class from Skip, 30 years ago, then began logging 6 months later. It took him 2 years start to finish, from the time he began logging, to complete his first 3-story log home. He did this while averaging 60hr work weeks and got very little help, but some with the finish work. This time, Len will devote himself to building our log home (1-story with a loft). He is a very driven hardworking guy, so I don't think it will take him much longer than a year to build our home.

[blane]

You could hire it out and be living in it pretty quick. I didn't and that's why it took me so long. I did have some occasional volunteer labour but I spent many a night after working my day job by myself until after midnight and doing it all over again the next day.

[jasonfromutah]

There is certainly nothing wrong with your question(s).

Here is/are my experience(s):

My 30x30 took 4 1/2 years. Cash flow, full time teaching job, full time side business, 3 boys in High School and Middle school, finding logs, waiting on help........ were all factors.

If I had some cash saved for another build, if I had 2 full time laborers, and about 75% less work and family commitments, I could easily build a log home in less than a year.

I can assure you that stacking logs and pounding re-bar although physical, does not take that long.

There is no easy solution building a log home. However, is it worth it? It sure was/is for me. It is a great feeling to be 99% done!

[John W]

One of the members is a fireman. He worked one full 24 hour day, then had two off. He was 95% complete in a year.

[rreidnauer]

I'm confused. Takes long?

It's still faster and cheaper than a 30 year mortgage.

[blane]

He took a lot of time off and had a bunch of firemen helping him I think. Plus the man is just plain tough as nails. :) And a super nice guy too.
One of the members is a fireman. He worked one full 24 hour day, then had two off. He was 95% complete in a year.

[oldtrapper]

If ya want to drop coins in the labor slot, Ronnie Wiley can show ya what "speed it up" means.

The beauty of this method is that there is an application of it, just for you.

[thoner7]

One member builds the whole shell in like a week. And yes, he is for hire.

[Brook]

These are my opinions about why it takes so long to build this way.

First of all, you will in all likelihood find it hard to gather the materials. The logs are hard to find, and it is hard to find someone to haul them whole to your site. Most loggers only want to move logs that are under 16 feet long and you will need logs a little longer than your house will be. The rafters and joists are unusually large. Brackets for them if you need them have to be made to order. I have experienced many materials delays in this process.

Another reason it takes so long is that handling such large pieces is slow. Not only are they large and heavy but they are non standard. Nothing in your log house will be square, plumb or level. That means that everything must be fitted in place after being measured and cut. That sounds slow doesn't it? Well, it is. If you hire this done to speed it up, you will pay extra in money.

It is hard to get someone who has the right skills, even among builders. Probably they will not have experience shaping logs with chainsaws, chinking, or any of the many tasks involved. Of course everyone can learn on the job, including yourself. The mistakes will show when you make them, which is not an issue if that is not something that is important to you. It's not important to me. But I did have a more serious issue. I had my floor built the way it was taught in class, only to have it fall apart. Yes, there was a fix, but it again added time, money, and was significantly painful to install (physically painful). The learning curve unavoidably takes time.

I would not do this again. I lived for 12 years in a single wide trailer which was literally falling down around my head as I raised my kids. I would be pleased as punch to live in any house I made by myself. I would be damn proud in fact. There is nothing wrong with a stick built house. It is easy, quick, durable and relatively cheap.

The advertising side of LHBA emphasises that building a butt and pass log home can be done by anyone, and that it will be cheap. These claims are what got me into class and now I am half way through building my house. But now, older and wiser, I do not agree with either concept. It's not something that anyone can do, nor is it cheap. It could be done cheaply, but so could a stick built house. A log house has no inherent advantage in cheapness that I can see. The enormity of this process was not apparent to me until I was already committed.

I would recommend this class if you have your heart set on building a unique log home and you are willing to pay for that luxury with considerable amounts of time, money, backaches and sweat. If that describes you then you will really like this method and should go ahead with no qualms.

[panderson03]

I would definitely have not done it any other way than LHBA.
I don't have the skills or the patience to stick build exterior walls with just our family. but can stack logs.
we found logs not all that hard to find; just needed to do some looking. same with our hauler.
without LHBA, we would not be able to build debt free ( we're paying as we go).
without LHBA, we wouldn't be able to retire; we'd be paying off a mortgage

if we had to do it all over again, we'd definitely go the LHBA way.

Brooks right about one thing. its a lot of work, a lot of sweat, a lot of sore muscles. but all so worth it to us, as we're building our future.

best of luck to you Darin, what ever you decide.

[Brook]

You don't have patience to build an exterior wall stick style but you have patience to stack logs and chink? In terms of time and convenience, stick building is over faster and it is much easier (skills wise too). Hence its appeal for those who have "no patience". Patience is what you must have an abundance of, as well as time, (and money and muscles) if you go the LHBA way. It's possible to build debt free with lumber. I do not understand why people keep mentioning this. In terms of money I would be done spending by now if I had sent all my logs to the sawmill instead and built with the lumber that produced. I guess the "mortgage free" thing comes in to play because the process is so time consuming people do not end up spending all at once?

[Darin]

You don't have patience to build an exterior wall stick style but you have patience to stack logs and chink? In terms of time and convenience, stick building is over faster and it is much easier (skills wise too). Hence its appeal for those who have "no patience". Patience is what you must have an abundance of, as well as time, (and money and muscles) if you go the LHBA way.
Where is the cost Brook? Everyone else seems to suggest how much more economical this method is.

[panderson03]

hi there Brook.
stick builds require a lot of time and patience. throwing up logs is pretty quick :)
chinking is pretty quick too. I can do a row and a half in an hour. buy some pizza and beer and a lot of friends will volunteer to help :)
its all the perspective I guess:)

and frankly, at this point we have a lot more time than money:)

I'm sorry you're not enjoying the process, Ms Brook!

[panderson03]

Hey Darin. you can have 2 of these three .. cheap/fast/easy.... but you can't have all 3
the way we're building, its slow and cheap, not easy as we're doing most of the build ourselves. some folks hire parts out which makes it easy but not cheap.
too we spend a lot of time thinking about how we can do things the least expensive, hunting for bargains.. which of course takes more time.

[Brook]

I am enjoying it panderson, in a way. But it is not what I would have chosen if someone had explained it to me before I started, instead of me just hearing the "spin". I'll pay the costs, physical, time wise, monetarily, and be happy with my house. I just know it would have been less time and effort to go another way and I still would have felt like the queen of sheba when it was over.

Darin, as I said before, the costs are in the materials, and the labor. You are making a handcrafted thing essentially. There are market forces at work in our society that make everything handmade more costly. A log house is no exception. If you do it yourself it will take time. And make no mistake, unless you are making the barest bones house, it will cost you a lot of money. The LBHA method does not save you money. You could save money building stick frame too, by sending your logs to the sawmill, building with rough lumber, recycling materials etc.

And if you hire anyone to help, you will pay a LOT because it takes so much TIME (not square, level or plumb anywhere thus endless handfitting). I pay by the hour for help and that makes everything we do very expensive because it takes so much time to create. I do not have the physical strength to do the things I pay to have done. Nor do I want the whole process to take ten years while I pay rent in my crappy farm house (thus spending more money). So these are the realities.

I think most people on this forum are so in love with the idea of a log house that a stick frame house offends them. Well, I am not in that group. I simply wanted a house. I love the look of the log house, but now I understand why hardly anyone ever makes one. If a log house is what you want, then prepare to go those extra miles, and go for it.

BTW logs are not "thrown up", nor is it pretty quick. I do not know anyone who works for pizza.

[Darin]

I'm a project manager. We call that the triple constraint in my business. Time, Scope and Budget. You mess with one it impacts the rest.

[Brook]

If you are building with lumber, you can cut all your members at once, because you know how long they need to be. You level the foundation, you can feel pretty good that everything you build after that will be level because your lumber is standard. The things you need are readily available, the help fast and experienced. Everyone knows the drill and there are few surprises. Everything is small enough to be handled by one or two people. That kind of efficiency could hardly be improved upon.

[BoFuller]

Brook, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. If I had ten years, then this log home would be done a lot cheaper. My County issues a building permit for one yr with two 6 month extensions. Everything takes twice the time because my location is so remote. I'm paying out big bucks so I can get er done in the allowable time constraint.

But, I love the home and I love building it.

[panderson03]

I'm a project manager. We call that the triple constraint in my business. Time, Scope and Budget. You mess with one it impacts the rest. exactly! you got it

[Mosseyme]

We are in our 60's and are building from the stump up. We started this process because we have quite a number of acres of land with Hemlock trees that are all dying from a bug that is killing all Eastern Hemlock. I love log houses but would not have done this if these trees were not dying. This is a way to be able to keep enjoying our mountain while making use of something beautiful that was going to be lost to us. If we had not done this it would have been much to dangerous to even be out here.
That being said, when we are done we will have a very unique beautiful home that we created from the loss of something beautiful.
I enjoy the process of letting this build and the logs define themselves. Each day something new blooms in my mind of how to do this or that. Yes there is nothing square of plumb but some things are quite level, and after a lot of working and planning we have our very crooked log rafters pinned in place and are no more than 1/4" to 1/2" off on a 60' roof. I find that amazing for two old amateurs with a little help from family. We have been at it for more than 4 years and still have a long way to go. However it took 2 years just to get the logging done because we were logging on the side of mountains where we often had to cable a log in from 200' and sometimes 100' straight up the side of the mountain. Some days it took a whole day to get one log to the racks. Then was the excavation. 4 months to dig the basement and move the rocks out. I quit counting at 350 tractor bucket loads of rocks plus the ones so big it took multiple pieces of equipment to move them out.
And now after taking a year and half pouring the basement, stacking logs. putting in first floor joist and temp floor, getting the RPSLs and ridgepole placed, logging milling and placing and pinning 32 log rafters milling 4000 LF of lumber, planing and edging same lumber we are ready first of the week to start applying this lumber to the roof. We also have good access to only 1 side of the build fair access to 2 sides of the build and no access to the 4th side. We have hired help only with pouring the basement walls and now next week getting the decking on the rafters so far. To make it clear we have done everything the hard way except having a tele to stack the logs ect. Buying the logs would have been a piece of cake compared to what we have done. To have the logs brought in and laid out on the ground or racks would have made two years of the work go away. But that would have defeated our purpose. To have a big track hoe come in and dig the basement would have taken 2 days. But that would have defeated our purpose. The point is from the moment I started the class I knew we could do this. We were going to do it anyway we just now had better info and strategy. My point is everyone has to chose his own way. This class teaches a lot but don't underestimate the labor and time. I don't think you will ever hear anyone teaching the class ever say the word easy, or quick. I remember them trying to not be discouraging when people had big ideas but repeat their mantra build as small as you can afford. I think they are not just talking about money but also time and pain. I never heard anything about easy. I never expected anything easy. And yes sometimes when everything hurts I wonder if we should have done something different then I go sit in my house without a roof and look at the sky and the logs and touch them and think when this is all done I will be so glad we did this even if I get discouraged sometimes along the way for a bit. More frustrated than discouraged because of weather or other obligations ect. I will never look at a kit log home and think of it as a log home again. BTW we also built a stick frame home many years ago that we live in still. Not cheap, not easy, every single thing we hired so called professionals to do was totally messed up and we often had to fix it ourselves. We even did the roof on the 12/12 pitch that the builder we hired to do the main frame up would not get on.

[panderson03]

where's the LIKE button??? like, Like, LIKE!
thanks for calling it like it is Ms. Mossey:)

[BoFuller]

Ditto, Sis.

[loghousenut]

I guess I always thought everyone who took the class felt the same as I do about it all.

I'm so glad we are doing it this way. See that kid with the chainsaw. When he was 6 years old, I dropped a 1,000 lb log on him and thought I'd killed him. For 3-1/2 years after that day, the 14x14 outbuilding we were building sat there, tools sitting in the weather where they laid. Finally I had the courage to confront it all and I picked up what was left of the tools and cut the building up and burned it. Took 3 days to turn it into ash and chunks of rebar. I told the Wife that I didn't trust my own judgment and that I'd never work with logs again.

Time heals all and eventually we started talking to contractors to build us a stick house. It wasn't going to be the home I'd promised her and that bothered her enough to guide my head back where it was always supposed to be. The kid was fine but he felt like he was to blame for his family not having the log home that had always been the main part of the plan. We all deserved better. Slowly we got our act together and our home is shaping up just fine. Some folks think it has taken too long but it seems to be going right on schedule to me.

That's Jake (the log target) up on the ridgepole.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Wow/Rafters9-2010441.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/loghousenut/media/Wow/Rafters9-2010441.jpg.html)

[Readyman Dan]

This isn't even about logs. Yes it's true, they are the vehicle here. It could be a rocket ship to Mars. (or whatever) I'm a believer.

[project]

I got a quote to build my house from one of the popular custom log home builders and it was over $1,000,000. I don't know about anyone else here but I could never afford that. I am basically building the same house with much larger logs for about 1/3 of that and if I would build it a lot smaller it would be a lot less. If you are willing to work hard and be resourceful I definitely think this is the way to go. Just my humble opinion. I agree with this style of building 100%

[rreidnauer]

I was just talking with Steve Wolfe. He said he'll have $30K in his 30x30 three story, to get it under roof (with standing seam no less) Not sure what others think, but to have one's superstructure and roof up for the price of a couple UTV's is pretty dang impressive.

http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r519/Liberty_Acres/Steve_s_place_09-29-13.jpg

[Blondie]

WOW! Isn't it just beautiful!

Blondie

[rockinlog]

i think when it comes down to it anything you build whether stick frame or log its gonna take work and effort that's a given and people should know that going in nothing in life that's worth having usually comes easy but i know i personally will have a lot more satisfaction building my log home after its done than if i were to build a boring stick frame home and i think that's the reason most people attend the class and i know there will be issues that arise when i build but when they happen you just think about the big picture and living in your log dream.

[StressMan79]

My .02

My wife hates the cabin, it's remote and off grid. If I was to do it over, I'd build an ICF home with stucco and an LHBA roof. Build on grid with a "lot". Cost more (spent 50$ on all my windows/doors), but my wife might not hate it and might live there...

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[Mrs. Len]

Bummer, sorry to hear that StressMan79, had to know what to say to that. I may be better at the fine finish work, but I love everything my husband builds, because he is building for us. He has built me two garden cabins and currently a cute little log cabin (will end up being a guest cabin with a jetted tub & loft). Plans changed when we got a mobile for free, so we can live in this, instead of the motorhome, while Len builds our log home.

[Mrs. Len]

These are my opinions about why it takes so long to build this way.

First of all, you will in all likelihood find it hard to gather the materials. The logs are hard to find, and it is hard to find someone to haul them whole to your site. Most loggers only want to move logs that are under 16 feet long and you will need logs a little longer than your house will be. The rafters and joists are unusually large. Brackets for them if you need them have to be made to order. I have experienced many materials delays in this process.

Another reason it takes so long is that handling such large pieces is slow. Not only are they large and heavy but they are non standard. Nothing in your log house will be square, plumb or level. That means that everything must be fitted in place after being measured and cut. That sounds slow doesn't it? Well, it is. If you hire this done to speed it up, you will pay extra in money.

It is hard to get someone who has the right skills, even among builders. Probably they will not have experience shaping logs with chainsaws, chinking, or any of the many tasks involved. Of course everyone can learn on the job, including yourself. The mistakes will show when you make them, which is not an issue if that is not something that is important to you. It's not important to me. But I did have a more serious issue. I had my floor built the way it was taught in class, only to have it fall apart. Yes, there was a fix, but it again added time, money, and was significantly painful to install (physically painful). The learning curve unavoidably takes time.

I would not do this again. I lived for 12 years in a single wide trailer which was literally falling down around my head as I raised my kids. I would be pleased as punch to live in any house I made by myself. I would be damn proud in fact. There is nothing wrong with a stick built house. It is easy, quick, durable and relatively cheap.

The advertising side of LHBA emphasises that building a butt and pass log home can be done by anyone, and that it will be cheap. These claims are what got me into class and now I am half way through building my house. But now, older and wiser, I do not agree with either concept. It's not something that anyone can do, nor is it cheap. It could be done cheaply, but so could a stick built house. A log house has no inherent advantage in cheapness that I can see. The enormity of this process was not apparent to me until I was already committed.

I would recommend this class if you have your heart set on building a unique log home and you are willing to pay for that luxury with considerable amounts of time, money, backaches and sweat. If that describes you then you will really like this method and should go ahead with no qualms.

Sorry to hear of your experience. My husband, Len, built a 3-story log home in two years working 60 hours/week. He purchased the trees from a landowner, then logged them himself. He hired a truck driver to haul the logs to his property. There are a variety of ways to get logs, was sorry you had such trouble. The point here? Len had never built anything before, took Skip's class, then began building his 3 story log home six months later (that was 30 years ago and it was sold in the late 90s). Then, he built a large shop, and has continued to build anything we need. He built a large log boom and used on old Dodge truck to build his log home. His latest log project is a small cabin (using his F250 w/log boom and winch). This was started due to us believing we would be living in a motorhome while he built our log home. Since we were given a singlewide mobile, Len added a necessary addition (there was a hole where the roll-out had been removed). The little log cabin is currently 9 logs high. He could complete one log layer per day. While his goal was to build this cabin relatively quickly, he insured each layer was level (by using a level and shimming where necessary). Len is using the Butt and Pass method. He just logged the trees he needed from our own property. We don't have much money into this cabin, either. Len built the concrete forms for the foundation with wood he bartered for (he is a WABO Certified Welder/Industrial Machinist). So, he offered to do some repair or welding work for the wood.

The property we bought has all the timber we need for our log home (that met our criteria). We have been very blessed, but were prepared to use an older nice Birch kitchen in the log home we will be building (since we had moved all the cabinets, etc..., already). We had purchased all that years ago from a Seattle homeowner. We are always looking for building supplies and store anything we think we can use. Right now, we have a bunch of high quality double paned windows, including some really high end Euro-ones. Since our family knew we were on the lookout for anything we could use? Len's sister called us with great news. Her neighbor is ripping out a high end beautiful kitchen (solid maple, all the appliances, island, and even the kitchen sink). This is all being given to us, but we will have to travel to Seattle to get it. Thankfully, we now have a half-empty insulated truck box with a stainless steel interior to store it in (I was given that about a month ago). It is 40ft long. I was given that, due to disclosing to my business associates what our plans were. I bartered some garden consulting, plants, and seeds for 72 large tempered safety glass panels (76" X 46" X 1/4"). I've sold the extra, but am keeping enough for a greenhouse and using the rest for skylights (for our covered porches). By networking, we are meeting quite a few contacts. I couldn't begin to add up the thousands we are saving. Long before Len has the foundation done, we will likely have the rest of our windows, bathroom fixtures, sinks, toilets, and antique cabinets (will install sinks on them). We are prepared to barter, buy used, or new. I enjoy going to thrift stores...just bought an antique couch for $55, and matching chair for $24.50. Everyone who sees my furniture flipped and couldn't believe what I paid. Another recent thrift find? A hand-carved solid Mahogany side table, looks to be from the Philippines or possible Thailand. My daughter is using our coffee table (large burlwood slab type), so we are going to get an antique one to go with our couch. When we build our home, we will get our large one back). We will only purchase new, if required to. Otherwise, we will re-use anything/everything we can. Once we have the confirmed materials list, I'll be posting ads for anything we need.

Len recently built an addition on the mobile we were given. All the windows, doors, and half the lumber, were salvaged. We bought a good used sliding glass door. The insulation, wiring, and even light fixture, were all re-used. The metal roofing was purchased new. I believe you can save a lot of money by being resourceful. When we needed to lay tile and build a backsplash for a wood stove, we took a class at Home Depot. Then, we bought our supplies and did it together. I'll be starting a journal to track everything we do. When our little cabin is done, I'll post some pictures, and also tally up our total expense building it.

Since Len and I plan to do all our own work, we won't be hiring any one. Since Len is still a currently licensed WABO Certified Welder, he will build all of our construction brackets.

I respectfully disagree with your statement:

I would recommend this class if you have your heart set on building a unique log home and you are willing to pay for that luxury with considerable amounts of time, money, backaches and sweat


In my husbands words, "Building a log home is S I M P L E, but it is hard work." While he took the class from Skip so many years ago, he has often repeated a statement of Skips, "Just DO IT!" This was the answer to how one would lift the logs up.

I encourage any who are considering building a log home to take the Class FIRST. If you haven't bought property, just do what we did. Buy property with more than enough of the right types of trees for your home. The value of this is huge!

[tjmash]

Reality check, hmmm…Bear with me as it’s a little long.

We first thought of renovating our 140 years old Farm House, so we bought all the windows, hardwood floorings and whole bunch of other stuff that we might need. But Tim have always wanted a log home so when he stumbled upon LHBA he didn’t hesitate and enrolled.

He wanted me to come along to attend the class too but I just got hired full time from my job and our daughter Deborah is only like 3 years old that time and I can’t leave her. When he came back from the class he is so full of enthusiasm telling me everything that he learned.

Both me and my husband do not have any experience on building except when we closed our shed and did our sidings and tiled our current house. But we are confident because we have the LHBA family who helped every step of the way.

We started the process of looking for logs and preparing all the tools and equipment that we might be needing. Well, it took 1.5 years to find our logs but it’s not like were looking every day, for the meantime we kinda spread the word to some friends and neighbors about our plan (we have to for neighbors coz if one of them disagree then the county can shut you down and you won’t be able to build).

One neighbor have a friend who got about 100 acres of Red Pine that his family planted when he was only 7 years old ( he’s almost 70 years old now). But he’s on a forestry program so we can only cut those that the forester marked for cutting. We cut and limbed 100 trees (which we got for $15.00 a tree) ourselves with the help of a friend (it took us about 1 month as we can only do it every weekend), hired someone to skid them out and load it up to the Semi ($250.00 to load 100 trees I think is a fair deal). That was spring.

It took us close to winter peeling logs. I worked 2nd shift that time so I will peel about 1 or 2 logs before going to work and Tim will peel about 2 logs after work. We did that every day until all the logs are peeled. Winter time we scrambled to load them all inside our Shed to protect them because the County held up our permit and it took 14 months before they finally granted us one. For the meantime, all the logs started to brown so we sanded everything and put 1st coat of stain ( It took us the whole summer and hard work to do that).

We hired out the digging of our basement ( we saved because a neighbor have a friend who have an excavating business and gave us a good deal). One neighbor who happened to be a Construction Foreman transit our basement for us for a case of beer. But everything from making the Footers to stacking up the ICF and backfilling our basement we did ourselves.

We begin stacking our logs. My husband would be on the skidsteer and log is strapped and suspended in the air while I go up and down the ladder to ratchet strapped both ends of the log. Tim pounded all the rebars on all the four walls (18 layers x 4, plus the king posts, RSPL, etc. I think I pounded a couple here and there too…:D The king posts and the RSPL we lifted up using a block and tackle. We rented a crane to lift all our log rafters (same guy who did our basement so its cheaper).

I remembered how frustrated my husband was trying to level them log rafters. But it brought tears to my eyes when all the rafters are all up because it started to really look like a house. We milled, planed, t & G and installed our tongue and groove roof materials ourselves (huge savings!) but we hired out the installation of sleepers and metal roof as that time it was already winter and getting so dangerous to be up there.

For the meantime we are milling our window and door bucks as well as the 2nd floor joists materials ( more huge savings). Tim have a welder friend so he welded all our joist brackets for the price of my homemade Eggrolls, Chicken BBQ and Apple Pie. We were closing our gable ends early spring this year when Tim had an accident. Everything was on hold for a few months until he started to feel a little better (stubborn).

I learned how to run our sawmill and started cutting our 2nd floor hardwood flooring. We have close to 10 acres property and we didn’t realized that we have enough trees called Quaken Aspen or more known as Poplar to do 10 houses in our backyard. Right there is more huge savings.

I helped put most of the insulation and pounded nails by hand outside of our logs (as Tim is still hurting). We stained the logs and started chinking this early summer and have been chinking since then. We finished 3 walls and could have been done except for the rain.

My take on this kind of build is that. It’s doable. Yes, there are a lot of frustrations and being overwhelmed as it’s not easy, it’s hard work and painful. Some phases of our build were not documented with pictures because both of us doing it and our daughter is too little to take pictures.

More so harder for me too coz I’m shorter I’m 5’2”. By the way I’m Asian and I’m from the Philippines. It helps a lot that my husband is very handy and such a hard worker and won’t stop until things are done and done right . It took longer because of some circumstances beyond our control like permit, looking for logs, both of us working almost 10 hours each every day and family obligations and our decision of not borrowing money from the bank and build as we can afford were all part of the factor.

But every time we finish something and move to the next step we felt good and kept us going again. There are still a lot of things to do before we get done but we’ll get there little by little. Looking back, we will not do it any other way and again we could have not done all of these things without the support and help of the LHBA family. Thank you!

P.S. All the windows (13 of them) that we bought before for our current house we didn’t install and was sitting on our shed the whole time waiting until we finally installed it on the log home. The hardwood flooring will hopefully be installed sometime next spring. And by the way, the husband is thinking of building another one when we get done with this. Oh my! 

[jasonfromutah]

Brook: I do not mean to be a jerk but I would recommend a little more positive outlook.

You can make this build process expensive, if you want too. I believe we have seen both sides of the extreme. I fell somewhere in the middle.

I didn't add up all the cost but I would assume that I came in around $120,000-$130,000 for about 1550 square feet. So, for about $80 a square foot, I
have a custom built log home. And, I hired A LOT of labor! I could have done it for a lot less, but 4 1/2 years was enough for me.

As was mentioned, stacking logs is not too hard IMO. It is work, but I am not a great framer and I would rather stack logs than frame.

Was it worth it for us? Yes. Would I do it again? No

I did what I wanted to do and am happy. I proved a lot to myself and my family. We are all believers now.

[jasonfromutah]

OK, I decided to do a little math. I realize you could use other build methods as well. However, lets use my build as an example.

I spent around $120-$130K to do my build, in 4 1/2 years.

I did a few google searches for "kit" type homes and believe the cost for a "lower" end turn key kit would be about $150 a sq. foot. Given the description of the costs, I am not sure this does not include all the hook ups and impact fees. Also, there are other hidden costs, I am sure.

Still, lets say we go with the $150 per square foot. $150 X 1550 = $232,500

Now, we have heard that 4-5 years is a long time to build. Therefore, we can decide to make payments for 30 years. Not including bank fees and closing costs, which would add several thousand dollars to our amount, lets take the 30 year mortgage @ 3.85% (current credit union rate with excellent credit).

My payment would have been around $1093 (this does not include insurance and taxes). This custom build would end up costing around $393,480!

I am sure that given the hidden extras, that number would jump considerably.

So, I saved myself about $268,000+ and have a better built home! To me, that was worth it.

If my business and work ever go under, I can always sell my stick home and have a log home I can live in. It makes my life a little less stressful!

[rockinlog]

wait a minute you mean there's work involved? I can't just click my heels and my log home instantly appear? All of brook's points could be said for any home including that offensive stick frame home lol if you hire everything out you will spend a lot of money regardless of which type of home you are building that's just common sense.I think if brook "just wanted a house" she would have been better off going to home depot grabbing 4 sheets of drywall and some shingles and called it a day.It's obvious people that are on this site don't want a log kit home or the dreaded stick frame home they wanted something unique and could pass down to their kids but i also think they knew going in they couldn't just sprinkle fairy dust on their land and have their log home magically appear.P.S. Panderson i do work for pizza!!

[Mrs. Len]

Darin, I wouldn't be discouraged by any posts on your thread. Building a Butt and Pass Log Home? You end up with a superior home in every way (my opinion, of course). You can design your home to be very simple or very complex. Once you take the Class, you have access to a lot of resources and support! Being able to network with others building log homes is invaluable. This opens the door to solving any challenge you run into.

While Len and I plan to do all the work ourselves, we will have to pay for some excavation work. Fortunately for us, we have two different neighbors with heavy machinery. Never underestimate the power of bartering... If you need some assistance with your build, literally extra manpower or womanpower, you just say the word on the Member's Forum. There are folks out there willing to help build to get the experience!

When we told our friends and family of our plans...funny thing happened. A lot of them want in on the project. My cousin is a Manager at Boeing and has taken time off just to come over and be part of what we are doing here. He happily pounded in some rebar, learned how to use the big drill, and wants to come help with the firewood, too. He also asked to come back when the logging starts to help! When Len gets done with the work on our mobile addition, he will be back on the little log cabin project. If Len wants some help, he just needs to say the word. He has three sons, all big strong guys, and each of them can assist with any task needed. We have other friends and family who are available to help, if needed. These are sharp capable people and capable of top notch work. I cannot imagine paying any one to help us build. While that is true, I realize the same cannot be said of everyone. As for them, if there is no network of friends & family, there is still the LHBA Community! I believe it is very important to be in contact with other Members on the Member's Forum as well as any who are local to you. The benefit is simply huge!

Darin, have you read all the articles at the main LHBA Site?

http://www.buildloghomes.org/

[loghousenut]

I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Maybe that's more evidence that my slow and easy method works for me. I think I'd fail miserably at stick building, and especially if a construction loan, crew of subcontractors, time, and organization were involved. It seems so darned simple to just go out and play with the build and pay for it as I go. I suppose if I were in a hurry, I wouldn't be able to afford it.

[Mrs. Len]

I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Maybe that's more evidence that my slow and easy method works for me. I think I'd fail miserably at stick building, and especially if a construction loan, crew of subcontractors, time, and organization were involved. It seems so darned simple to just go out and play with the build and pay for it as I go. I suppose if I were in a hurry, I wouldn't be able to afford it.

Like button pushed :cool:

You and my husband, Len, are on the same page re: building a log home again. Proof is in pudding here, as Len built that 3-story log home 30 years ago and is thrilled about building another one! He is also not interested in building a stick built home.

[rockinlog]

OK, I decided to do a little math. I realize you could use other build methods as well. However, lets use my build as an example.

I spent around $120-$130K to do my build, in 4 1/2 years.

I did a few google searches for "kit" type homes and believe the cost for a "lower" end turn key kit would be about $150 a sq. foot. Given the description of the costs, I am not sure this does not include all the hook ups and impact fees. Also, there are other hidden costs, I am sure.

Still, lets say we go with the $150 per square foot. $150 X 1550 = $232,500

Now, we have heard that 4-5 years is a long time to build. Therefore, we can decide to make payments for 30 years. Not including bank fees and closing costs, which would add several thousand dollars to our amount, lets take the 30 year mortgage @ 3.85% (current credit union rate with excellent credit).

My payment would have been around $1093 (this does not include insurance and taxes). This custom build would end up costing around $393,480!

I am sure that given the hidden extras, that number would jump considerably.

So, I saved myself about $268,000+ and have a better built home! To me, that was worth it.

If my business and work ever go under, I can always sell my stick home and have a log home I can live in. It makes my life a little less stressful!
enough said,nice post jason

[spiralsands]

Am I wrong in remembering that Brooke is a single mom with about 4 or 5 kids? Maybe the lucky members with spouses and significant others shouldn't pig-pile on the woman and insinuate that she is too lazy to wait for her golden perfect log home. Despite everyone's high opinion of themselves as members here, being judgmental of the homes of others and their needs is small of character. Sometimes a mom would just be happy with a conventional cottage. There is nothing wrong with that. I don't think she needs a sales pitch at this stage of the game.

Frances

[jasonfromutah]

"Maybe the lucky members with spouses and significant others shouldn't pig-pile on the woman and insinuate that she is too lazy to wait for her golden perfect log home. Despite everyone's high opinion of themselves as members here, being judgmental of the homes of others and their needs is small of character."

I doubt one poster on this thread is doing this. There is nothing wrong with advice and that is all I am offering.

If a stick home is a better option, more power to them. I will not comment on this thread again but wish everyone a successfully build; regardless of their build preference.

[rockinlog]

Jason i think she might be referring to my comments and i want to apologize to brook for the things i said no one else that has commented said anything out of line from what i've read they were just stating how they feel about the lhba way of building i on the other hand was out of line and am sorry for going off on her.It takes a lot of guts to attempt something like this especially a single woman and i applaud her for that i've seen her pics of her build and im very jealous its beautiful and i know building your own home can be overwhelming and she went for it i guess i was just trying to defend the site and this way of building but it's not my place to say anything when i haven't even started to build or gone to the class and to brook and everyone here on the site i sincerely apologize and hang in there brook your gonna have a beautiful log home

[blane]

It took me 4 years to build my house and it cost me less than a double wide. A bare bones house? I don't feel like I need anything more and compared to a trailer its much more than bare bones and the best built house I have ever owned. I can upgrade some things later if I want to but honestly I couldn't be more content. No way I would trade this house for a stick built or a kit and there is absolutely no way a stick built with this square footage could have been less money IMO.

I think everyones experience differs to one degree or another and so do their circumstances and regardless of those things anyone who attempts this is a brave soul.

[loghousenut]

I feel a good dit of respect for Brook and her build also. While I am not opposed to a good pigpile, I certainly hope I wasn't involved in one in this thread. I'm one of those folks who feels like I owe a tremendous debt to Skip and the current LHBA staff. My life would be very different if it weren't for this outfit.

If I had been a down and out alcoholic, brought back from the brink by the Salvation Army, you can bet I'd be preaching their praises at every opportunity. I suppose it's not the same kinda experience for everyone out there. I wish it were.

[Mrs. Len]

Brooke sounds very frustrated in her posts and has posted somewhat false information as it would pertain to most of us who have or who are building Butt and Pass Log Homes. This isn't her fault, as she is sharing her experience. However, posting about prohibitive cost absolutely is based on her unique experience. Does it have to be this way? No, I don't believe it does, but it was for Brooke. While everyone has a right to agree or disagree with the opinions of others, I don't believe any one personally attacked Brooke. What I am hoping comes from this thread? Some serious interest by a few Members who may be in a position to help Brooke. We are seriously saving a lot of money doing all the work ourselves. The fact we have friends and family who are willing and able to help? Great for us, but it sounds like Brooke doesn't. I think she has really taken on a huge task considering her situation. You bet she must indeed be gutsy! Aren't there some Members who could assist Brooke or others out there looking to get some building experience?

Here is the OP:


reality check
I've not taken the class yet and we plan to in Feb, but I need to have you guys tell me if I'm being unrealistic here. The plan is to build next year. We have an idea of what we want to build but suspect that will change after the class. I've read on blogs that the logs need to be seasoned for several months before assembly. Is this the case? If so I may have to come up with plan B.

There is so much we don't know . . .

Based on Darin's Thread OP? He was looking for helpful insight from others who are or who have built their own log homes. It sounds like Darin and his significant are going to be building it themselves. All of us have our own unique situations, some may be more alike than others, and some very different.

[spiralsands]

I don't really know the whole story here. I do understand her frustration though because sometimes, despite your hardest efforts, thing don't work out the way they were supposed to.

Frances

[Basil]

In the middle of my build, I would have given up hope but for three things: first, my family had trusted me on this damned fool errand and I didn't want to let the wife and kids down; two, I think my marriage would have ended if I hadn't finished the house; and three, well, dammit, I never give up on anything and the whole town would have been laughing at me (at least that's what I thought). It was rough, those were some dark days. I had told the wife that I'd be about done in two years but the two year mark came and went, no end in sight. I got pretty discouraged.

That was about the time windows and doors were being installed, and the wood stove arrived. I could heat the place, I had a toilet in the home I was building, it started to feel like a home. The excitement came back and every day I could see concrete changes, where before that I could only see changes over longer term.

So I certainly can understand the frustration. Look at this as a test of your determination. I couldn't have lived with myself if I quit, and I foresaw happier days. When I got too tired to work I sat on the porch and drank beer. I brought the wife and kids down for picnics on the deck and played with my toddler in what was soon to be his room. We got through it, and you will too.

We just passed our sixth year in the log house that I built. We own 70 acres free and clear and mortgaged the house to pay for it, so an almost three thousand square foot house and 70 acres of land has a total mortgage of $135,000. We would never think of living anywhere else. I know that with perseverance you will be in this same spot too someday.It took three years and four months from the day the first log was placed until we moved in. IT sucked sometimes, but I still feel that I paid ahead and will be at the front of the rat race for a long time. Hang in there

[panderson03]

....P.S. Panderson i do work for pizza!! excellent! theres always plenty of food. take the class and come on over. we could use the help. plan to have our cabin under-roof by snow fall:)

[panderson03]

Am I wrong in remembering that Brooke is a single mom with about 4 or 5 kids? Maybe the lucky members with spouses and significant others shouldn't pig-pile on the woman and insinuate that she is too lazy to wait for her golden perfect log home. Despite everyone's high opinion of themselves as members here, being judgmental of the homes of others and their needs is small of character. Sometimes a mom would just be happy with a conventional cottage. There is nothing wrong with that. I don't think she needs a sales pitch at this stage of the game.

Frances no one's judging, insinuating or pig-piling. Merely demonstrating that there are other perspectives than the one heard in hear post. sorry if we were perceived as otherwise

[panderson03]

.... and will be at the front of the rat race for a long time. Hang in there that's our goal, Basil. you're living the dream!

[rockinlog]

excellent! theres always plenty of food. take the class and come on over. we could use the help. plan to have our cabin under-roof by snow fall:)

sounds like a plan! do you have pics of your cabin id love to see them i think the ones i saw was your garage?

[Mrs. Len]

I thought I'd post this for Darin or any who are considering venturing forth on vacant land:

We closed on our new property 4/2/14...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10308166_10152860742649156_5641138043851163643_n.j pg?oh=9cae5feec852129adb82970484c08496&oe=54AD1F1D&__gda__=1420705400_1e93df5b1eff859398a08f4c2742e6c 9
Our first "home" when we moved here, was a bit challenging but we lasted until almost two months and then...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10710874_10153173370254156_7160189746666382972_n.j pg?oh=4dad76d3353f3b1116d9bef309ab6d99&oe=54E7665B&__gda__=1421439806_dd226dcda16e903df5a17ab47191209 9

I sold the travel trailer and sweet talked my Len into looking at this motorhome. We bought it and lived in it from May 20th to until October 15th. Yes, upgraded again...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10710874_10153173370254156_7160189746666382972_n.j pg?oh=4dad76d3353f3b1116d9bef309ab6d99&oe=54E7665B&__gda__=1421439806_dd226dcda16e903df5a17ab47191209 9
We are now going to live in this singlewide mobile until our log home is completed (it was free except for the delivery, tax, and license fees of $645). Len built the addition onto it, is currently fixing a plumbing issue, and has done all the work once it was delivered (setting it up, hooking up power, water, and septic). He has also had to re-seal the roof after some repair work. Eventually, we will paint it, as it looks a bit rough on the outside. On the inside, however...

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10646620_10153118490739156_9015831702551797577_n.j pg?oh=9be0d9c4cdb07f54c52bef5d04c687d1&oe=54F31F30

Len had begun building us a smaller log cabin for extra space when we both thought we would be living in the motorhome. This is how that looks...

https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10703593_10153106525424156_5593580634649055019_n.j pg?oh=e5b58beed5433a38be1c51c1e376e863&oe=54EE1F43

Len will resume his work on our little cabin when he has finished all his work on the mobile. It is a little 13 X 16, will have a loft, covered front porch, and will be a multi-purpose cabin now.

[panderson03]

here's a pic of our cabin taken just today. work in the roof continues

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz207/panderson/102114_zps2276c883.png (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/panderson/media/102114_zps2276c883.png.html)

[Mrs. Len]

I'll try that again. Here is the mobile:

https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1234424_10153177379129156_8506546440212660795_n.jp g?oh=1e109e873ce34c3fc54989e4fa16f915&oe=54EB189B

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10646620_10153118490739156_9015831702551797577_n.j pg?oh=9be0d9c4cdb07f54c52bef5d04c687d1&oe=54F31F30
Interior is in excellent condition

[Mrs. Len]

Panderson03, looks great!!!

[panderson03]

:) thanks Mrs Len. its a labor of love :)
hard work but unites us in a cause. know what I mean? brings us closer.
you're single wide looks very comfortable for the time being at least and your porch is VERY cute!!! oh my! that husband of yours is talented!

[panderson03]

a pic from the inside


http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz207/panderson/ceiling_zpsc3115977.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/panderson/media/ceiling_zpsc3115977.jpg.html)

[panderson03]

a pic while standing on the shed dormer

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz207/panderson/view_zpsa2817ec5.jpg (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/panderson/media/view_zpsa2817ec5.jpg.html)

[rockinlog]

wow panderson thats looking good!! How big is it if i may? and may i ask where are you building? and mrs len i think that trailer looks great perfect till you get your log home built!

[panderson03]

thanks Rockin.
its 35'x35' walk out basement, full first floor, 3/4 loft. we're building in northern MN. gotta get those logs under roof before snow fall:)

[rockinlog]

nice size! ill bet you guys get a tad bit of snow there huh lol

[panderson03]

sure do. great for skiing, sledding, snow mobiling, snow shoeing:)

[rockinlog]

good idea the walkout basement keep those logs out of the snow

[tjmash]

here's a pic of our cabin taken just today. work in the roof continues

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz207/panderson/102114_zps2276c883.png (http://s828.photobucket.com/user/panderson/media/102114_zps2276c883.png.html)

It looks nice and huge!..:)

[panderson03]

yup!! that's for sure. and the basement was pretty cheap square footage! eventually we'll have wrap around deck's on the first floor. a deck or 2 off the loft too... to protect the logs and to keep our square build from looking so much like a cube:)

[Mrs. Len]

:) thanks Mrs Len. its a labor of love :)
hard work but unites us in a cause. know what I mean? brings us closer.
you're single wide looks very comfortable for the time being at least and your porch is VERY cute!!! oh my! that husband of yours is talented!

Thanks, will pass on the kind comment. Your home and view, wow, SWEET!!! I am looking forward to seeing the pics of your completed home :cool:

We had planned on doing something similar, but have been discussing having a garage under our log home instead (so all of our windows will have unobstructed views of our forest and the foothills).

[panderson03]

thanks for the kind words about the build, Gracie and Mrs Len:) it IS HUGE!
if we had to do it over, we'd have gone smaller.

garage under the cabin sounds ideal! wish we'd thought of it a few years ago...

will definitely continue posting occasional pics, Mrs Len. but don't expect see 'completed' pics for a few years yet!
we don't live at our build site and really only have approx. 30 hours per week to work on it so things move slowly,,,, though steadily!!!!

:)

[rockinlog]

it sure is looking sweet! whats the basement material you used is that those i c f blocks? i hope i got that right i hear stressman talk about them

[panderson03]

we used ICF (insulated concrete forms) on the garage's stem walls and the cabin's walk out basement walls.
the brand we used was Fox Blocks because they were the least expensive and we could get them from Menards when we ran out :)
ours has 8" concrete in the middle with 2.5 inches of foam insulation on the inside and outside.
will help keep our basement warm in the winter and cool in the summer!

they were very easy to stack; like big lego blocks.

have you ever used them?

[rockinlog]

no i havent but ive heard good things about them better than just concrete walls those get cold lol

[Blondie]

Pandersons,

I am holding my breath for you to get dried in before the snow flies! Hurry but be safe!

Blondie

[Brook]

Hi guys, just now checked in on this thread. Sorry to stir up controversy. No one needs to offer an apology for anything said. I don't take it personally. I'm very happy for those who love their log homes. I will love my log home when it is done. I'm not trying to take anyone's joy away or invalidate anyone's choices.

And I am not unhappy, I'm just telling what my experience has been. I have earned my right to do so at this point (1 and 1/2 years into my build and house is currently being chinked with 2 exterior walls done).

The original poster is someone who wants to hear from people with experience and he hopes to hear honesty. Sometimes it seems to me you guys on LHBA are so into the idea of a log house that there are claims being made in favor of this method that do not stack up against my reality. If I was thinking about taking the class and was writing a thread called "reality check", I would like to hear some reality. That is all I am trying to provide. I guess I sound negative but I feel some moral obligation to balance what seems to be a full on sales pitch from other members in response to these types of questions from those who have not taken the class.

Some of the sales pitch that attracted me to this class in the first place was that the build would be "easy" in the sense that it says on the first page of the website that the method is geared towards people who are average and who have never built anything before. Just how much hard hard work this project is is a subject that lacks adequate representation on the "advertising side" of this forum. It's really really hard work.

When someone says they can "throw up logs" in a hurry and make it sound easy that does not educate the uninitiated into the realities of what is involved. What "throwing up logs" entails is finding the logs, having them logged (or doing it yourself), transporting the logs, arranging them, de-barking them by hand one by one, identifying them and describing them individually, lifting them into the air somehow and carefully fitting them together taking many measurements into simultaneous consideration, securing them with bone jarring tools, all this includes possibly life threatening tasks, after first creating a foundation that can take the huge amount of weight you will be putting on it, lifting, levelling and securing huge rafters on top of the bumpy walls, cleaning logs, trimming logs, sanding logs, preserving logs, staining logs (most people choose to do this), cutting openings in them, putting in heavy frames in the openings, insulating and meshing or nailing (every 2-3 inches) between logs, chinking openings inside and out, cleaning the logs again (and again)... You get the point.

Another one of the "pitches" that hooked me on LHBA was the idea of saving money. At this point I don't really understand how this claim applies and I do not believe it.

My carpenter assures me that we would be done by now if we had gone with a plain frame house. Every month we don't move in means more money spent in rent. These builds do not happen in an economic vacuum. I actually think I am going to spend much less on my log house than many members of this forum. I have been able to save money at some junctures (such as getting half price windows and used doors) and my bathrooms and my kitchen will be exceedingly plain (not planning on even putting in cabinets). I also am doing as much as I possibly can by myself (which turns out to be not nearly as much as I hoped it could be). The sooner I get it done, the sooner my money stops flying out of my wallet for rent and heat, so time is an issue to me, and it is another aspect of this method that I feel is inherent and needs to be made more apparent for those on the fence. Yes I know a few individuals have been able to swing some exceptional deals on their logs homes, but from what I have heard that situation is extremely rare. More rare than is usually admitted.

There are lots of people around me who have built frame house around here for cheap. I think I could have swung a decent house for around $70,000. It would be no palace, but I don't need a palace. My house does not have to be EPIC, or trendy, or anything that impresses anyone . It needs to be sturdy, warm and within my budget. I also didn't want it to be something that would depreciate (mobile home). I would never have looked at a frame house as boring or (whatever negative adjective you choose) if I made it myself. I've been in some very soulful homemade frame houses, just saying.

A log house is a beautiful thing. It's just going to take extra... whatever... (time, money perhaps, work). If you WANT a LOG house, this is a great way to get one! I salute EVERYONE who has taken this epic project on. I love to hear of their feelings of satisfaction and happiness people on the forum express with the method and their houses. I love to see the pictures of the finished houses. They are truly labors of love and all unique and all beautiful. My project has been a lot of frustration and agony for me at times, but I too have those feelings of satisfaction. I love making things by hand, so I can't help but love it.

I just think there has not been total honesty about the potential drawbacks or the full scale of the project involved. I think unrealistic ideas are sometimes promoted. I would hope that there is room here for everyone's experiences even if they are not all the same. My only motivation is to share my experiences in the hope of helping someone who might want to hear what I would have wanted to hear when I was in their shoes and maybe save some future disappointments for them or help them get their ideas and desires sorted out better.

I also know that I am not the only one feeling overwhelmed. I have heard through the grape vine many complaints that are not openly aired on the forums. I don't want to air negativity just to be a downer. I only mentioned it all because someone asked about it, someone who doesn't yet know the scene. That person deserves to hear an answer. Best of luck to Darin, and peace to everyone. If you build an LHBA house you should be proud of what you have done. You have achieved something extraordinary.

[Shark]

It all depends on how you look at it.

Is it "easy"? Well, dunno about that... it was 3 years of hard work for us. But at the same time, we sold it this year, and I basically doubled my savings account...can't do that on wall street lol. Tax free, and the pain leaves pretty quickly after the first few weeks of living in your log home that you built. Not to mention owning it free & clear, no 30 year payments to the bank!

Just break everything into small steps, have a party when you get each part done. Eventually the house is complete! Not so scary that way.

We also never built anything before. heck, Google taught me how to tile, along with many of the other parts of the building process.

Remember, you are doing something that 99% of *normal* people will never do in their lifetime. Enjoy it!

[Mosseyme]

More power to you Brooke, You started 1 1/2 years ago and you are chinking? Wow, we are still trying to get some kind of cover on before winter and we started 4 years ago. We poured our basement 2 years ago and started stacking 1 1/2 ago. We have hope for cover this week but just the decking and titanium the rest will have to wait.

[Mrs. Len]

Expense seems to be a big issue, so I will address what we are doing:

Buying a property with the trees we needed to build our log home with
Living on the property in a free mobile home while we build
Hiring no one to work on our log home, but utilize the offered help of friends and family with good skills
Bartering to get as much of our building materials as we can
Watch Craigslist for inexpensive or free building materials
Regularly go to a thrift store (I will be looking for antique dressers for our half-baths and other items)
Also, visit the local "use it again" type store to look for deals on toilets and anything else
Making sure my network, business associates, friends, and family know what we have and still need (HUGE)
*Now, I will be considering what type of ag business to go into, thanks to another post on this site! That will save $ for taxes...

Due to making sure my business associates knew what we were doing, I was given a 40 foot truck box (insulated and stainless steel inside). That is what we are storing some of our furniture and belongings in. Len saw an ad in the paper one morning for a free mobile home and that is how we got that. Since Len's sis was being updated regularly on what we were doing, looking for, and needed? See the next pic:

https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10606062_10153177711134156_2379636074901356083_n.j pg?oh=48b3b646885e791d30c4ac4b73261d25&oe=54E4ED87
This is just part of a spacious beautiful Maple kitchen with higher end appliances. There is an island, gas stove/oven, dishwasher, and even the kitchen sinks. Why the pic? We are being given an entire kitchen identical to this one (Len's sis's neighbor is remodeling her high end up and ripping out the kitchen to do a complete remodel). We will have it by first week of November and have the room to store it in my truck box (I call that mine as I bought Len a 40' shipping container he has converted into a shop).

Otherwise, skillset comes up as an issue. If one wants to save a lot of money building, it requires skills must be learned or a lot of $ goes out to hire others to do the work.

While Len is a top notch Welder, if he didn't know how? He or I would go take a class. Any who are skeptical, I will share... Both of Len's sisters took welding classes, so they could make their own garden art. We both went to a tile class when we wanted to learn that. One of our neighbor's taught Len how to neatly finish sheetrock. Anything he or I don't know and need to know? We will learn the skill. Much of what Len has learned, he has done so by doing.

Now, the result of Len's work on his first log home after only taking a class from Skip 30 years ago? His 3-story log home was built like a fortress and he was very resourceful. It cost him $20,000 and is proudly standing the test of time. He built a larger home than we will this time. I asked Len and he confirmed that his class fully prepared him, gave him accurate information, and he will always be grateful to Skip. Two of Len's friends also took Skip's class and the three friends were building their log homes at the same time. Both those log homes are still absolutely beautiful, too!

[Mrs. Len]

Brook, I am sorry you feel the way you do and the cost for you was so high. I am excited and happy to be building and know it is hard work. There are no illusions here. The difference is that your reality is not the reality of most who are building Butt and Pass Log Homes. We have no intention of going about it like you had to. I doubt others would choose to do so, either.

Your posts would easily dissuade any who have to hire others to do most of the work on their log homes. Had I read your posts, without actually seeing the log homes Len and his two friends built (get to talk to them about their experiences, etc...), I would have given up my dream in a heartbeat, not bothered to even take the class. All 3 men did not have the experience you have. They did almost all their own work, hiring little (Len's friends did hire some help for some of the work), all built their log homes for far less than for a stickbuilt, and all are built beautifully (all 3 different designs, too). While Len's home was sold after his divorce, both of his friends still live in theirs! I have met others who have built log homes and none had experiences remotely similar to yours.

[spiralsands]

I didn't grow up with anyone who had any construction skills. Everything I learned about constructing anything, I learned from books or talked to people. Before I took the class, I had paid 4K to have a major modification done to my master bath. After I took the class, I gutted my entire hall bathroom and rebuilt it, replaced all the windows on 2 sides of my house and built a conventional stick frame shed in my yard. Doing all that cost money out of pocket and time and frustration but it also added about 35K value to the house when I sold it. The LHBA class didn't teach me how to do those things. The LHBA class taught the log house building. But I came home with the courage and determination to develop more skills and to begin investing in those things I needed, like tools and books on masonry and framing. I've been up in NY for almost 4 years now and I just finished paying off some moving debts. I could hire someone to build a conventional home on my property. I could buy a Deltec home too. But I don't want a mortgage anymore. I'm paying a mortgage now till I get that home built so I don't have to pay a mortgage. It wouldn't be a good trade off for me to get out of one mortgage only to go into another one on the land that I own outright. The only way to get someone else to build you a home is either save a lot of money for a long time or get a building loan that turns into a mortgage.

Down in my basement right now is an old fashioned, claw-footed bathtub and piles of glass blocks I bought from Craigslist. In Fort Worth, Texas last year I found an antique dresser with a marble top that had a matching highboy with mirror and a side table with marble top. My bathroom has all its furnishings and I am going through a stressful time dealing with my setbacks out there on the property. I want that bathroom! And if I have to wallow in mud, get concrete in my hair and carry ticks down the NY State Thruway while I cry all the way home, I'm going to get it!

Frances

[panderson03]

Pandersons,

I am holding my breath for you to get dried in before the snow flies! Hurry but be safe!

Blondie

thanks Blondie. got plywood and titanium over the shed dormers (with T&G/sleepers/insulation below) and Plywood over 3 of the 4 ends of the normal roof. still need to plywood over the last corner of the roof (NE side), titanium all 4 'normal' roof ends and then frame in the the triangle/sides of the dormers before we can put up the metal roof. the tele leaves Friday oct 31 but won't need it for framing in or metal roof (as the metal is already sitting in a box on top of one of the dormers).

so its all about getting that last section of roof plywooded and titaniumed, get the dormer triangles framed before it gets too slippery/snowy to comfortably do the metal roof.

the metal just might have to wait for next building season and I've made my peace with that. with titanium up the roof will be weather proof and the logs protected. I can live with that.

still, we'll try to beat the weather (safely...)

FWIW, on the garage the 2 of us were able to throw up the metal roof in 2 days (2 FULL days sun up to sun set.. which isn't saying too much now that it doesn't get light til 0730 and gets too dark to safely work by 1900...)

:) thanks for your well-wishes!

[panderson03]

I didn't grow up with anyone who had any construction skills. Everything I learned about constructing anything, I learned from books or talked to people. Before I took the class, I had paid 4K to have a major modification done to my master bath. After I took the class, I gutted my entire hall bathroom and rebuilt it, replaced all the windows on 2 sides of my house and built a conventional stick frame shed in my yard. Doing all that cost money out of pocket and time and frustration but it also added about 35K value to the house when I sold it. The LHBA class didn't teach me how to do those things. The LHBA class taught the log house building. But I came home with the courage and determination to develop more skills and to begin investing in those things I needed, like tools and books on masonry and framing. I've been up in NY for almost 4 years now and I just finished paying off some moving debts. I could hire someone to build a conventional home on my property. I could buy a Deltec home too. But I don't want a mortgage anymore. I'm paying a mortgage now till I get that home built so I don't have to pay a mortgage. It wouldn't be a good trade off for me to get out of one mortgage only to go into another one on the land that I own outright. The only way to get someone else to build you a home is either save a lot of money for a long time or get a building loan that turns into a mortgage.

Down in my basement right now is an old fashioned, claw-footed bathtub and piles of glass blocks I bought from Craigslist. In Fort Worth, Texas last year I found an antique dresser with a marble top that had a matching highboy with mirror and a side table with marble top. My bathroom has all its furnishings and I am going through a stressful time dealing with my setbacks out there on the property. I want that bathroom! And if I have to wallow in mud, get concrete in my hair and carry ticks down the NY State Thruway while I cry all the way home, I'm going to get it!

Frances Frances, you are my hero. I aspire to be you!

[panderson03]

beautiful kitchen Mrs Len!! anyone would be proud to call it their own!

[loghousenut]

I want that bathroom! And if I have to wallow in mud, get concrete in my hair and carry ticks down the NY State Thruway while I cry all the way home, I'm going to get it!

Frances

Yer my kinda person.

[Blondie]

Pandersons,

I am trying to figure out whether you will be able to work on the cabin during the winter. Isn't your cabin way the heck and gone and you live in heavy snown country right. I wonder if you can stuff the chinking areas with insulation and work on the insiden in warmth during the winter. I hate to think of anyone working in the snow and cold during the winter.

Blondie

[Mrs. Len]

I didn't grow up with anyone who had any construction skills. Everything I learned about constructing anything, I learned from books or talked to people. Before I took the class, I had paid 4K to have a major modification done to my master bath. After I took the class, I gutted my entire hall bathroom and rebuilt it, replaced all the windows on 2 sides of my house and built a conventional stick frame shed in my yard. Doing all that cost money out of pocket and time and frustration but it also added about 35K value to the house when I sold it. The LHBA class didn't teach me how to do those things. The LHBA class taught the log house building. But I came home with the courage and determination to develop more skills and to begin investing in those things I needed, like tools and books on masonry and framing. I've been up in NY for almost 4 years now and I just finished paying off some moving debts. I could hire someone to build a conventional home on my property. I could buy a Deltec home too. But I don't want a mortgage anymore. I'm paying a mortgage now till I get that home built so I don't have to pay a mortgage. It wouldn't be a good trade off for me to get out of one mortgage only to go into another one on the land that I own outright. The only way to get someone else to build you a home is either save a lot of money for a long time or get a building loan that turns into a mortgage.

Down in my basement right now is an old fashioned, claw-footed bathtub and piles of glass blocks I bought from Craigslist. In Fort Worth, Texas last year I found an antique dresser with a marble top that had a matching highboy with mirror and a side table with marble top. My bathroom has all its furnishings and I am going through a stressful time dealing with my setbacks out there on the property. I want that bathroom! And if I have to wallow in mud, get concrete in my hair and carry ticks down the NY State Thruway while I cry all the way home, I'm going to get it!

Frances

Frances, you are doing phenomenal and are a great example for others to follow! By being so resourceful, you are saving a lot of $. You WILL get your beautiful bathroom! Coincidentally, we also plan on getting a claw foot tub for one of our bathrooms, antique dressers for them, and will be using glass blocks if we can find enough of them. Craigslist is great!

A short while ago, I was on the phone with a good friend. I mentioned to her that I was going to post on Facebook soon... We would prefer to lay tile in our 7' X 12' addition (Len will be installing our wood stove in it...this is the one he designed and built himself). Turns out my buddy has enough leftover tile for us, so I will be buying it from her!

While Len is fully capable of doing all the work, I will also be working alongside him. We will be finishing our little log cabin before we start building our log home (timing is dictating that). All the finish work will be done by us together. He doesn't want me driving in rebar or doing the harder physical work, as he is better suited. However, there will be plenty of other work for me to do. We will be laying tile in our little addition in a few weeks, also building the hearth and backsplash together (for his wood stove).

[Mrs. Len]

beautiful kitchen Mrs Len!! anyone would be proud to call it their own!

Thanks, I am certainly pleased! I would have been happy with a kitchen half this nice... This is a U-shaped kitchen, so there is another side with a double sink, which is almost as long. In addition, a large island w/stove/oven. I'll take FREE anytime I can get it! I posted this to illustrate the potential of what can happen when you spread the word about building a log home and looking for building materials.

[StressMan79]

On ICFs

I haven't built with them, but would in a heartbeat.

I had vertical bar every 32 in, lifting the foam over the ends would be much easier than the CMUs (cinder blocks) that I used
Filling the voids in the block required hand mixing 4 yards of crete. Stack your forms and call in a truck.
Block is not cheap. $1.30 each is a decent retail price.
They aren't that strong. 2700 psi is the published strength. Your crete will be 4k+ My hand mix was ~6k.
You have a choice of core size, log homes should use 8" minimum, but you can easily go 12"
Built in foam insulation. @R 4/in, you will likely have R 20 in your walls.

[panderson03]

Pandersons,

I am trying to figure out whether you will be able to work on the cabin during the winter. Isn't your cabin way the heck and gone and you live in heavy snown country right. I wonder if you can stuff the chinking areas with insulation and work on the insiden in warmth during the winter. I hate to think of anyone working in the snow and cold during the winter.

Blondie

Honestly? your guess is as good as mine! we're sincerely hoping the log walls sans chinking stops at least a week bit of the wind and that keeping active will help keep us warm.

hoping our neighbor will be willing to keep our driveway free of snow when he does his

honestly we're getting tired and keeping our motivation up for much longer might be near impossible.

we take each day at a time now.

we'll see how it goes:)

[Blondie]

I guess the first thing I have to say is to work safely. I have been listening to the weather.......you may have a week or ten days. But you have some big drafts there. I am afraid that the snow is on its way. What were you planning to use as insulation? I wonder if it could stand alone until spring? You may not be able to get the chinking in, but cutting the wind would help you a lot. What about using old blankets trn in strips? Use them as insulation until spring.

Blondie

[Mrs. Len]

thanks for the kind words about the build, Gracie and Mrs Len:) it IS HUGE!
if we had to do it over, we'd have gone smaller.

garage under the cabin sounds ideal! wish we'd thought of it a few years ago...

will definitely continue posting occasional pics, Mrs Len. but don't expect see 'completed' pics for a few years yet!
we don't live at our build site and really only have approx. 30 hours per week to work on it so things move slowly,,,, though steadily!!!!

:)

The garage under our home idea... One day, I was walking the property, standing where we would be building our log home, when it suddenly dawned on me. Where would we build the carport or garage? As I stood there, I began thinking about the floorplan we are almost done with. As I pictured myself walking through our future log home, I began to visualize what we would see through the windows. As I looked through each rooms' "window," I could see forest and/or a foothill/tops of trees, our giant mossy boulder, natural water features... Suddenly, I realized there was no good spot for a carport or garage, but we would want to have our cars in a garage. That is how the idea was born. Other ideas I have had, I run past Len, and usually he agrees. Of course, when I say, "Honey I have an idea," he groans and replies, "Great, means more WORK for Leonard!" In this case, he thought about it, raised a few concerns initially, discussion ensued, and he has agreed it makes good sense.

[panderson03]

I guess the first thing I have to say is to work safely. I have been listening to the weather.......you may have a week or ten days. But you have some big drafts there. I am afraid that the snow is on its way. What were you planning to use as insulation? I wonder if it could stand alone until spring? You may not be able to get the chinking in, but cutting the wind would help you a lot. What about using old blankets trn in strips? Use them as insulation until spring.

Blondie

good morning Blondie. for sure; we'll have to let the weather guide our work.
can work on the inside framing up gable ends and the walls of the dormers if its too slippery on the roof.

we sure do get a lot of big drafts here, especially coming up off the lake!!

for insulation, we had closed cell foam sprayed in the sleepers before we put up the plywood. we're so glad we did!!

yes after we get the titanium on top of the plywood, I'm very sure it will survive the winter A-OK:)

great idea about the old blankets!! we do have a bunch of old ratty moving blankets that would foot the bill nicely. thanks for the suggestion!

first and foremost, work safely everyone!

[Blondie]

I know how it feels like to attempt to work outside during the winter. Miserable, totally miserable! Perhaps the winter will give you the psych break you need to finish....

Blondie

[Drummerboy]

Am I wrong in remembering that Brooke is a single mom with about 4 or 5 kids? Maybe the lucky members with spouses and significant others shouldn't pig-pile on the woman and insinuate that she is too lazy to wait for her golden perfect log home. Despite everyone's high opinion of themselves as members here, being judgmental of the homes of others and their needs is small of character. Sometimes a mom would just be happy with a conventional cottage. There is nothing wrong with that. I don't think she needs a sales pitch at this stage of the game.

Frances

Rock on Frances, 100% agreed

[rockinlog]

to all of you that have built or are building what's the hardest part of your build so far if i may ask ,foundation,stacking logs chinking or other?

[Mosseyme]

What ever you are doing right now.

[stamic55]

Are you talking physical work, mental work, monetary delays, available time, getting permits, or something else?

[rckclmbr428]

It's different on different builds, but I hate the inside finish work. First I hate being inside. Second you can work hard all day and it looks the same as when you got there. If you are stacking logs or putting the roof together you see lots of progress happening. Inside work seems to just eat time with little to show.

[loghousenut]

Toughest part for us was pulling the trigger on the starting gun. This place I'm plugging away on is the first time I have had to deal with the County Inspectors. I worried so much about it that I'm surprised I don't have hemorrhoids from all that puckering. Once we made the first inquiry, everything relaxed and they have been a pleasure to deal with.

Since then it is just one step, or half step, at a time and I have enjoyed every minute. Maybe not every minute of peeling, but most of the other minutes.

[blane]

Physically for me was the roof. I didn't have a lift to get my materials up so it all went up a ladder.
Second to that was plumbing, just because I hate plumbing. It was all hard work but I loved falling asleep as soon as my head hit the pillow.

[rockinlog]

thanks guys for all your input i appreciate it!

[lynncherl]

I wonder if Darin's eyes have glazed over yet...

[Plumb Level]

The only easy day was yesterday.....

[BoFuller]

For me, it's getting permits. Dealing with logs is easy. Dealing with know-it-all bureaucrats is the pits.

[rckclmbr428]

For me, it's getting permits. Dealing with logs is easy. Dealing with know-it-all bureaucrats is the pits.
Bo has by far the worst plan reviewer on the planet

[LBolton2008]

So...I have been reading this forum for over a year and we are FINALLY making it to the class in May! We just retired from the USAF last October (2013) and are currently toughing it out in the Baaken of North Dakota. We are working to put funds away so we can start building next year. Our plan is to build a very small cabin first, before tackling a bigger house. We have not purchased property yet. We plan to do so in Montana directly after we attend the class. Because we will not be working when we start building, I sure hope it doesn't take as long as you all are saying. We have done some framing, flooring and tiling before, but this whole B&P system is brand new to us.

[TrishD]

to all of you that have built or are building what's the hardest part of your build so far if i may ask ,foundation,stacking logs chinking or other?

For your average person (me) looking at floorplans was like trying to read a foriegn language. How does the rest of you cope with that? We gave up and hired a contractor to build the home for us. (A good friend). It has cost us a lot of $$ but we had no clue what we were doing. So our build will take a bit longer than most but as Ellesworth said when he came to visit us "You're getting it done aren't you"?

[loghousenut]

So...I have been reading this forum for over a year and we are FINALLY making it to the class in May! We just retired from the USAF last October (2013) and are currently toughing it out in the Baaken of North Dakota. We are working to put funds away so we can start building next year. Our plan is to build a very small cabin first, before tackling a bigger house. We have not purchased property yet. We plan to do so in Montana directly after we attend the class. Because we will not be working when we start building, I sure hope it doesn't take as long as you all are saying. We have done some framing, flooring and tiling before, but this whole B&P system is brand new to us.

Welcome to the club from an Air Force brat. You won't take as long as I am but you most likely won't enjoy the process as much as I am. However long it takes, you'll earn it and you'll be glad you did it. It will happen if you want it to. Anyone who can live in North Dakota at Christmastime can do durn near anything.

Enjoy the class and enjoy the process. You'll learn things this next year that will change your Grandkids lives.

[slamasha]

For your average person (me) looking at floorplans was like trying to read a foriegn language. How does the rest of you cope with that? We gave up and hired a contractor to build the home for us. (A good friend). It has cost us a lot of $$ but we had no clue what we were doing. So our build will take a bit longer than most but as Ellesworth said when he came to visit us "You're getting it done aren't you"?

We haven't started our build yet, but I've spent about 2 years to learn a "foreign language" before we could start. The plans appear pretty comprehensive to me now. I guess, it just requires some time and dedication to study if you don't have a building background.

[Little Eagle]

So...I have been reading this forum for over a year and we are FINALLY making it to the class in May! We just retired from the USAF last October (2013) and are currently toughing it out in the Baaken of North Dakota. We are working to put funds away so we can start building next year. Our plan is to build a very small cabin first, before tackling a bigger house. We have not purchased property yet. We plan to do so in Montana directly after we attend the class. Because we will not be working when we start building, I sure hope it doesn't take as long as you all are saying. We have done some framing, flooring and tiling before, but this whole B&P system is brand new to us.

Start with something small that you can move the logs fairly easy and just take your time and go with it. Thats what i plan on doing and ill be at the may class as well if everything goes well, hope to see ya'll there.

[kvjgrvs]

Brand new here. I'm getting a lot of conflicting signals. One thread will mention homes can be built with green logs, another will talk about having cut their timber "at the right time", then seasoning them for a year on log racks before stacking them. I've never built even a tree house, so idk.

[rreidnauer]

Both answers are correct. This style of building, You can use green logs and won't have any problems. But, cutting at the right time and letting them season can be additionally beneficial.

[panderson03]

we can definitely use green logs and not worry about the wall shrinking:)
AND if we can cut down the logs when they're not as full of sap, all the better.
so winter cut is a good thing:)
welcome aboard.
ASK QUESTIONS!

[loghousenut]

To further agree with Rod and Panderson, you can cut the trees any time of year, but cutting them in the winter when they are not full of sap will make them check less. It is not a problem but some folks like less cracks in their logs. The flip side is that summer cut logs sometimes peel much easier. Most of us just use the logs we find and it works. Every LHBA house turns out to be the coolest house in the neighborhood and nobody walks in the front door and wonders what time of year you cut your logs or whether you built green or cured.

It is all a non-issue as far as structure or strength. The LHBA system is very forgiving in that way. No settling issues to worry about whether you build with green logs or seasoned. No screw jacks. No settling space above doors and windows. No kidding.

[rockinlog]

hey guys just a question is it true that building with green logs as opposed to seasoned logs will tend to make your chinking crack more because they are shrinking or is it minimal difference?

[rckclmbr428]

Depends on when you Chink. If you're like me and are chinking a month after the trees are cut down then you have to plan to deal with a large gap at the top of the chinking. If you build with green logs and let it sit under roof for a couple of years before you get around to chinking (shout out to LHN) then it's not as big a problem.

[loghousenut]

What he meant to say was:

If you want to build your own log home with your own hands, building green will not affect your chinking in the least. Unless you take out a 30 year mortgage and have to hire a bunch of hurry-up labor, you are going to be building at a normal rate and the cure rate of the logs will pretty much take care of itself.

We, like most LHBA folks, are paying for this thing as we go and there is no real hurry. Trust me, my logs have shrunk all they are gonna.



PS... I am a wore out old frat who is building this thing because I like building it. You will most likely build faster than I, but slower than that wiley young whippersnapper, Ronnie Rcklmbr.

[rockinlog]

Depends on when you Chink. If you're like me and are chinking a month after the trees are cut down then you have to plan to deal with a large gap at the top of the chinking. If you build with green logs and let it sit under roof for a couple of years before you get around to chinking (shout out to LHN) then it's not as big a problem.
thanks for your input rckclmber when you do get a large gap you just add more chinking right? does it attach well to the old chinking? i appreciate it not sure lhn does lol

[rckclmbr428]

No, the best thing to do is use a synthetic chinking that is color matched and seal it just like caulk. Then it's water tight at the top and flexible. Don't pay LHN much mind. He's still angry at me for convincing him to take his perfectly good roof off and putting it back on. ;)

[rockinlog]

What he meant to say was:

If you want to build your own log home with your own hands, building green will not affect your chinking in the least. Unless you take out a 30 year mortgage and have to hire a bunch of hurry-up labor, you are going to be building at a normal rate and the cure rate of the logs will pretty much take care of itself.

We, like most LHBA folks, are paying for this thing as we go and there is no real hurry. Trust me, my logs have shrunk all they are gonna.



PS... I am a wore out old frat who is building this thing because I like building it. You will most likely build faster than I, but slower than that wiley young whippersnapper, Ronnie Rcklmbr.

lol i appreciate it lhn,you got plenty of other things to do around the cabin besides chinking eh :D

[donjuedo]

Don't pay LHN much mind. He's still angry at me for convincing him to take his perfectly good roof off and putting it back on. ;)


Deja vu. Weren't you the (first) one to tell Bo he has to take his logs apart and put them back together, so the numbers on the ends would be right side up?

:-D

[rockinlog]

No, the best thing to do is use a synthetic chinking that is color matched and seal it just like caulk. Then it's water tight at the top and flexible. Don't pay LHN much mind. He's still angry at me for convincing him to take his perfectly good roof off and putting it back on. ;)
lol i hear ya and thank you for the info on the chinking in your business i can see you not being able to wait for logs to season before you build but if you could would you? Also does the type of wood you use also dictate how long it takes a log to season or more so the weather so you dont have problems with gaps,cracks in chinking or is it not that big an issue either way

[rockinlog]

Deja vu. Weren't you the (first) one to tell Bo he has to take his logs apart and put them back together, so the numbers on the ends would be right side up?

:-D

lol shhh! bo's inspector frequents the site:p

[Tracyblott]

Brook, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. If I had ten years, then this log home would be done a lot cheaper. My County issues a building permit for one yr with two 6 month extensions. Everything takes twice the time because my location is so remote. I'm paying out big bucks so I can get er done in the allowable time constraint.

But, I love the home and I love building it.

What happens if you do not get it built in the time frame, do they make you burn it down so something?

[BoFuller]

What happens if you do not get it built in the time frame, do they make you burn it down so something?

You have to renew your permit. And the code has changed, so things that were okay before, might not be okay now. If you don't renew, they fine you.
Fortunately I finished. I went a couple weeks over, but I was so close they didn't care.

[Tracyblott]

You have to renew your permit. And the code has changed, so things that were okay before, might not be okay now. If you don't renew, they fine you.
Fortunately I finished. I went a couple weeks over, but I was so close they didn't care.

Ok not as bad as i thought it might be, how much would the fine have been? only wondering because i plan to build with no help from anyone and i dont see myself being able to finish in 18 months all by my lonesome.

[rreidnauer]

Every place is different. Bo's place is worst case, Steve W hasn't been in contact with the bldg dept in years. He finally stopped in, and they said his permit is still good. My place, I have to have activity within six months. "Activity" can be as little as calling and saying, "I'm still building." This can go on indefinitely for my area.

[Tracyblott]

Every place is different. Bo's place is worst case, Steve W hasn't been in contact with the bldg dept in years. He finally stopped in, and they said his permit is still good. My place, I have to have activity within six months. "Activity" can be as little as calling and saying, "I'm still building." This can go on indefinitely for my area.

Thanks Rod maybe i was about to worry over nothing, heck i cant even find the online site for the folks that issue the permits in the county in which im building in. the people i bought the land from said that the building codes were on the relaxed side of things so i might not have any issues at all. i just dont want to get the walls and roof on and somebody from government shpw up and tell me i got to rip it all down for one reason or another.

[rreidnauer]

Best answer: call or visit the bldg dept. You don't have to say who you are or where you're at. Go ask questions and see how they are.

[loghousenut]

For 15 years or more, fear of the Building Dept was one of the things that kept us from starting to build. Finally at a local "Home Show", down at the fairgrounds, the County code folks had a booth and I worked up the gall to stop in and explain my fears. They said it was all fine and that they was from the Government and here to help me. Not long later I gave them a bunch of cash and they let me build thins thing.

Every 6 months they send me a scary letter that says I have to call them and give some oral testimony of my progress, or lack thereof. This bunch of Inspectors seems OK to work with.

My situation might be totally different than most folks. It seems like everyone who works in that County building brings their paycheck in to the Muffin Store at least once every two weeks. I have been working at the Muffin Store since they were all little kids and so they recognize me and trust me as a fellow who is gainfully employed and overpayed. They knew I had the cash and they wanted it so they most likely decided to make it easy on me... Everything is marketing. That does nothing to explain Bo's situation with his Arizonian Inspector. I suspect that his Inspector is a good judge of character and most likely knew by instinct that Bo was going to need a bit of prodding and handholding.

You'll do fine.

[panderson03]

we too have to show evidence of progress. we've been working on our build since 2010 and they say we're still OK.
:)

[sdart]

We have the same story. As long as we do something every 6 months, we can take forever to finish. The county comes by every 5 years or so to update their files. They came by last year, looked for all of 5 seconds to see that indeed, we were not yet finished, and away they went.

[panderson03]

wow SaraH :) our's comes by every spring so they can levy more taxes (the further along we are, the more the let us pay them..)

[donjuedo]

"let ..." LOL!

[panderson03]

TEE heee :)