Naysayers

[Bjurandsons]

I have been asked a number of times when telling people I plan to build a log home if I know how cold log homes are. In reading the public side of this forum I see no mention of this as an issue. Any idea why this idea seems so popular?

[StressMan79]

Dunno, my cabin was just chinked, gables insulated, nothing in the roof, still had to shed sleeping bag on 40 degree night, never fired up the wood stove.

I believe Skip said "you will never be too hot or cold in a properly built log home."

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[Blondie]

Bjurandsons,

If you look at my ID you will see that Stressman predates me by two years on this blog. It is true that log homes take awhile to warm up but if they are built properly they are wonderful maintaining a comfortable temperature. But I have never heard anyone even hint of a cold log cabin if they are built correctly.

Blonde

[loghousenut]

A kit house with 6" walls will be cold in winter and hot in summer. A LHBA home will not. I live in the 100° summer weather part of Oregon and I will need no air conditioner. Guaranteed.

[oldtrapper]

I have owned, lived in, and worked in log buildings in the coldest part of Montana and what you have been told is simply not true.

I suppose one could be built to resemble a corn crib and that might fulfill the assertion.. Well built - NO.

[Bjurandsons]

I don't tell too many people about my plans to build a log home but it seems that the people I do tell all have mid perceptions that are just not true. It gets a little old.

[Log Al]

Most of those naysayers think when you say log, they think 6" d log like kit homes. Their frame of reference is distorted by limited info. Like some of us seeing is believing. And yes it does get old :D

[rckclmbr428]

I always planned on having a "haters party" when I finished my first one, throw a big party and invite all the people who said I was crazy out to say "nana boo boo, stick your head in doo doo" but then never did. I guess finishing it up was gratification enough. I've never been much on having others approval.

[Blondie]

I say that if the people around you are negative and are putting you down, then you need new friends. We are available. Lolol

Blondie

[blane]

Just coming off our first summer in our place with no AC. Our hottest day reached 90 but inside never got over 78. Last winter we hit 14 below and all we had for heat was electric wall units and we stayed warm on the coldest nights.

[Plumb Level]

But Rockclimber, you are a little bit crazy, aren't you?

Bjurandsons - also get yourself ready for:

The log walls will settle jambing your doors and windows
There is so much maintenance
Won't those logs just rot away?
You can't run electrical or plumbing in there
You can't have central air or heat
You are going to kill trees to build a home?


Take the class, and all of the above will be de-bunked. Join us on our journey, it is a fun one.

[rreidnauer]

Real log homes don't have temperature issues. Skinny wall kit log homes do. Since most people only known/seen/lived in kit homes, its all they can speak of, along with all the other problems the kits have. Then you have word-of-mouth spreading from them to those with no experience at all.

[StressMan79]

For me, I heard log homes are "buggy". Also called a "log cabin republican"

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[jasonfromutah]

Its ironic that you posted this. I just ready. Yesterday, I posted the "heating" results, so far with my home.

If you believe or take counsel from Naysayers, who have never taken the class, you will never build a log home.

Life is full of people who are not willing to try things. They would rather sit back and complain about others ambitions.

I really enjoyed my completed home these past few weeks. I am glad I didn't listen to the Naysayers.

[Blondie]

I am nodding and smiling. Are you ready yet for your second one......don't answer yet. Lolol

Blonde

[TrishD]

Its ironic that you posted this. I just ready. Yesterday, I posted the "heating" results, so far with my home.

If you believe or take counsel from Naysayers, who have never taken the class, you will never build a log home.

Life is full of people who are not willing to try things. They would rather sit back and complain about others ambitions.

I really enjoyed my completed home these past few weeks. I am glad I didn't listen to the Naysayers.

There are ways to do anything - you just have to want it badly enough to figure out how to get it done! We have been blessed with Loghousenut helping us with all his wisdom! We wouldn't have a clue without him... and the way we met is a story you will have to ask him about. Its amazing!

When we first got the blueprints it all looked like Greek to me... I had no idea how to read (or follow) them. So we made the decision to hire a good friend as our contractor to help us through the process. Neither my husband and I like the stress.... we would rather have someone who knows what he is doing as a builder do it for us. We are content at working hard to make the $$ to pay for it!!

Now we are seeing our dream happening. A little at a time as we have the $$ to build, but there are no debts hanging over us. My goal is to finish with no mortgage and I was drawn to Log Home Builders philosophy on this. As Ellesworth said "You don't need a McMansion" . Build what you need and no more. I heartily agree!

[phlnrth]

I've never heard the cold comment, but this whole log home building idea only appeals to a tiny fraction of the population. They will all think of a million reasons why it won't work... Heck we just bought land in the foothills of the Ozarks in Oklahoma. We're from Washington and California, all of our friends and family think we're NUTS for moving to OK where there are 0 building permits, 0 inspections, and beautiful inexpensive land to build a cabin and grow some pigs, cows and kids on.... Shoot... when I type that out loud I guess I am a little crazy. For the record we won't be eating the kids....

[blane]

. For the record we won't be eating the kids....
Thats funny :)

[phlnrth]

Thats funny :)

Thanks Blane... I didn't want anyone to be confused... :cool:

[WNYcabinplannin]

Success is the best revenge. I love having all my past naysayers eat their words(& a good meal) when they see my cabin :)
Here's three buddies who never thought a cabin could look like mine...
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/10/epatuna5.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/10/mu3ymeba.jpg

[loghousenut]

Success is the best revenge. I love having all my past naysayers eat their words(& a good meal) when they see my cabin :)
Here's three buddies who never thought a cabin could look like mine...
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/10/epatuna5.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/10/10/mu3ymeba.jpg

Did ya get any sweat out of them or are they the "freeloading" type of naysayers?

[WNYcabinplannin]

Yeah- they did my stainless tile backsplash and rocked the basement ceiling. He was trying to talk me into a timber frame 5 years ago. Admits me ignoring him was the right thing ;)
It's the guys that questioned the pre-chink gaps and thought I could throw a cat thru that now understand. Those guys don't get a tour and a meal!

[Basil]

Ok, I'll admit, my log home is a little cold. YEAR ROUND. In the summer it is cool. In the winter it is cool. That's because I built a 25' vaulted ceiling in the main house, then tiled with stone throughout. And therein lies a lot of the problem with advice. There is no one piece of advice that applies to everything. Had I kept my ceilings low and had I carpeted instead of tiled, I bet my house would be toastier in the winter, at the expense of some summer comfort. I live in Kentucky, so our winters really aren't that bad and our summers can be extremely hot and humid. I built this way by choice, knowing what the consequence would be. It wasn't an issue until last winter, when we had below zero nights for nearly a week straight and the heat stopped working. But you know what? Even then I kept the (2900 sq foot) house from freezing with a single wood stove.

Naysayers? Haters gonna hate, nothing you can do about them. Except show them that they are wrong. We had a couple of big parties after we moved in and that pretty much shut them all up. As the logs went up I got more and more naysayers, and developed a theory that people really didn't want to see me succeed, maybe because it would show them that they could have done it too but didn't. They chose a mortgage, I paid for mine in 5 years. I also noticed that while more of my friends/family/acquaintances were trying to tell me it couldn't be done as i went along, more strangers were showing up to cheer me on. I became a tour guide some days, showing people around that had heard about the crazy guy building the log house. They were all encouraging me. Made me really reconsider the motives of some of my friends.

Many of them aren't my friends anymore. And I'm good with that.

[loghousenut]

Many of them aren't my friends anymore. And I'm good with that.


They never were your friends.

[jasonfromutah]

"It's the guys that questioned the pre-chink gaps and thought I could throw a cat thru that now understand. Those guys don't get a tour and a meal!"

That is always the biggest DOUBT! Heck, I remembered thinking "I wonder if the chinking will look OK"?? Now, I actually really like the varied gaps, and the "extra" chinking. It really tied everything together. I would not hesitate to build, for a second, if my logs were a little crooked (however, that another topic for discussion).

Its amazing, now that the builds over, its all positive comments and no one call anything into question. It sure has been enjoyable, having our log home 95% completed these past few weeks. Stay the course and good things will happen!

[eagle]

I hope I have many naysayers when I start because I love to tell people I told you so, even if I keep quiet they know. When I mentioned it to my mother she was the first to say it was not a good idea. A bit of discouragement from family but all the more reason...

[rreidnauer]

. . . . and developed a theory that people really didn't want to see me succeed, maybe because it would show them that they could have done it too but didn't.I believe my parents had that same motive. Even to the point of attempting to sabotage my plans.

[panderson03]

now that's just sad

[blane]

My dad worried we had made a huge mistake and before we did this he tried his best to talk me out of it. He knew I had no carpentry skills whatsoever and feared I was going to ruin his grandchildren's life, and we would wind up living in the dumpy single wide the rest of our lives. So, even though he was a naysayer I think he was genuinely concerned for us. He loves our house now and says it is the most beautiful log home he has ever seen "he hasn't seen anyone else's work from LHBA" :) And quite honestly, there have been quite a few times I have proved him right, but not this time.

[Basil]

Hey, some of them DO have your best interest in mind. They worry for you. My dad had always wanted to build a log home himself, and he wants to be the expert on everything. He kept telling me how I was going about it wrong, that I was wrong about costs and so forth. Then he saw the logs going up and started helping. He was the only one there to help me set the ridgepole. After that he never commented again, except to complement. HE saw the look in my eye, he knew it would be finished one day. Now he comes over and just brags about how nice and comfortable my home is and what a good job I did.

[Mrs. Len]

Rather than being naysayers, I have been asked a lot of questions. Fortunately, I was well prepared for them as I had exhausted all I could come up with on Len, LOL. The typical comments in the way of questions: Aren't they...

Impossible to insure
Prone to easily catch fire and burn to the ground
Drafty and hard to heat
Expensive to build
Dark inside
Require a lot of maintenance

All who know Len, don't doubt his ability to build our log home. No one has dissuaded us, in fact, we are fortunately receiving nothing but encouragement. By spreading the word to my business associates, friends, and family, we are quickly collecting a lot of valuable free building materials (favorite is the complete Maple kitchen).

[Tom Featherstone]

You can't control what "others" say, think, act or do. You do have complete control in your choice in how you react to it....

My wife Linda & I will be celebrating 35 years of marriage this November and for 35years+, we've talked, prayed,planned, and continued to pursue the dream. The "Naysayers" are still there. That has not stopped us from continuing forward. We haven't heard/read anything new of what others are encountering with the negative. I don't expect that to change, just one of the many challenges of life. Our House logs are sitting in our field awaiting construction come spring. Many have bet against us to even get to this point. Many have changed their viewpoint. I know there are still bets against. I could care less..

Our Dream that started long ago has been a wonderful journey. It's where we are at now, that is not even close to what we thought it would be. Getting to "NowHere" has seen many ups & downs, twists & turns, triumphs & defeats. You just keep moving forward. Turn a polite, deaf ear to those that for what ever reason don't agree with what you do. They can only effect you negatively, if you allow it. It is your Choice.

Don't ever let anyone decide your Dreams for you. Dream Big! Adjust your sight when necessary to allow yourself the possibility that even greater things are to come and enjoying every possible moment you are able to pay attention to.

I feel sorry for the "Naysayers". I can't imagine a life without dreams coming true?? Little ones occur all the time. You just have to open your eyes! :rolleyes:

Tom

[John W]

Dare to do great things.

[kahle]

The original question that started this thread asked about why the idea that log cabins are cold is so wide spread. I think I have a reasonable answer to that. It all comes down to R-value. The R value of wood is about 3 per inch which gives a 12" diameter log a maximum R-value of 36 and an average R-value of about 25. A chinked seam with a few inches of insulation in the middle only has an R-value of about 10 which is about as bad as a double paned window. If that's all you know about how to keep a house warm, that's not very impressive. What logs have that frame houses don't is thermal mass. Thermal Mass delays heat transfer and makes log homes especially well suited for environments that have warm days and cool nights. Brick and adobe houses demonstrate the same property but I don't think the general public gets just how effective this can make a structure. Codes also generally completely overlook this property and only talk about moisture barriers and the R-value of insulation. If all anyone is looking at is the R-value, then there is little wonder that everyone assumes a log cabin will be a cold home.

[rreidnauer]

Quite right. The whole R-value/U-factor thing was born from flimsy building techniques and also as a marketing ploy. Take fiberglass insulation for example. Compression, moisture/humidity, air infiltration, etc greatly affect (negatively) thermal performance, but all a homeowner/bldg dept cares about is saying, "there's R-xx in that wall/roof."

For my bldg dept, since they can't record a "factor of thermal performance" for my walls, they demand windows meet a U-factor standard of or below 30, and that the heating system exceeds 90% efficiency. Doesn't matter that my structure will be more efficient than most stick framed homes. They need to see numbers. This is also why I said on another thread, that I believe manufacturers are padding their R-value's. Sure, they have to go through testing to get the value certified, but it doesn't have to be under real-world conditions, nor does it have to be sustainable. (product degradation)

[pastormichael]

I have told friends about building my own log cabin and they think I'm crazy.

[Blondie]

You are amongst friends!

[Shark]

I have told friends about building my own log cabin and they think I'm crazy. 99% of people will....
Don't let it worry you.

[blane]

A good friend of mine, who never said a word to discourage me while we were in the middle of our build told me after we were finished while he and his family were over for dinner one night that he thought I had lost my mind for doing this. That night while he was looking around he said he sees now why we followed our dream. He even helped me peel most of the logs and did a lot of stacking but never was a naysayer only a nay thinker.

[loghousenut]

He even helped me peel most of the logs and did a lot of stacking but never was a naysayer only a nay thinker.

He is a true friend.




Then again, he might be the kind of a guy who would let you run around with bad breath because he wouldn't want to offend you with the truth. The more I think about it the madder I get. If you had a bad BO problem, he'd probably just let you stink instead of handing you an alcohol swab and suggesting that you use it under the pits. Now I am really steamed at this guy. I think you should keep a close eye on him. Watch him like a cat watches a Pit Bull. I'll bet he'd poison your dogs while you were at work just to be mean and spitefull...

OK, maybe I am overreacting. There are several kinds of friends. Some try to talk you out of your mistakes (mistakes in their mind) and some try to support you, and help you pull yourself out of those mistakes (mistakes in their mind). There is Mother Teresa and there is Dr. Phil.

Would you mind apologizing to the ole Boy for me. I feel so abusive.





PS... Lock the henhouse when he is around.

[blane]

oh my, i almost chocked! thats hilarious, and my buddy would laugh at that one.

[Tom Featherstone]

The original question that started this thread asked about why the idea that log cabins are cold is so wide spread. I think I have a reasonable answer to that. It all comes down to R-value. The R value of wood is about 3 per inch which gives a 12" diameter log a maximum R-value of 36 and an average R-value of about 25.

Knot to be a knit picker......... Wood 1.3 R per inch... Thermal Mass, they don't have a clue. But they "those that are smarter" know its exists, it's real, just can't put a number on it yet. It's part of the reason "thermal mass" why we're still able to build with logs. They did set a minimum diameter where we live, 12". You can no longer build a year round residence in Marquette County, Mi. with anything else because of our climate and energy codes. Most Kit homes were of smaller diameter, 6-8". I was never able to afford large enough logs that I believe we needed to live here, until after taking the class in 08'. Our house logs are laying in our field and ready to be stacked in the spring.

Apples to Apples... I've been in many log homes of all different diameters and construction. The only ones that were "cold" were those that were poorly constructed or lacked an adequate heat source. The bigger the Mass, the better it will perform with all other construction being equal. What you Don't get in a conventional frame is Mass, just a resistance to heat loss or gain. ICF's/ buildings are probably the best thing going in todays building world. But they're not wood. A lot more work building a log home.

I'm crazy, just ask any of my Naysayers.... There is a fairly large family of "crazies" in the Members Forum. It's a safe bet that anyone that has taken the class is considered so..... Love them All! They have kept my head in the game when we've hit the many hurdles that you encounter in this endeavor. Most of them don't know what an inspiration they've been as I don't respond to most posts, I've read most of them and have since before my wife & I took the class. We Will build with the logs we have in the LHBA method. It is the method that I believe is the best for us and having a fair knowledge of log construction it is doable by us. I know it will be warm.

Tom

[JAK]

Boy we are a rare breed of people , everybody says I'm nuts ,it's to much work . How can u say your having fun ,I don't know I just love it . I can't explain it . But I think u all know.

[rckclmbr428]

Build a man a fire, you'll keep him warm for the night. Set a man on fire you'll keep him warm the rest of his life.

[rreidnauer]

er, . . . . . or something like that.