HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical

[Dowadudda]

I have seen on this site somewhere, that once done with the class, the real hurtle for most people during their building is either doing this part of the construction themselves or contracting it out. I seen on here that the suggested reads are primarily telling a future builder to know this stuff.

Luckily, I can do all of these easily, due to what I do for a living. But. I may find it scary if one of you called me and asked me to do your home. Because. I simply have no clue how to do one. There is very little information available to most, but, I am a HVAC/R contractor, and in all my time in the trade, I have never read or seen anything about it. Wire runs are easy. Plumbing I am assuming would follow a similiar path. Ducting, is gonna be a night mare. You can build chases. No big deal. But. How do I get my air moving right in them tall ceilings with out consuming the space with chases.

How about big diamter logs, same as structure, hollowed out, lined with round duct, maybe sort a make it look like RPSL.

I called a few buddies up North, where log homes are popular here in MI. One buddy, He says, he himself has always wondered. It's not a matter of doing it, but doing it right. Most average people have zero idea how to do it the right way, providing quality conidtioned air quality.

How do I eliminate Stratification in those big open spaces I want. How does a log structure act with humidification and IAQ issues. And if in and of itself sucks that way, I got to build a system to handle that. My assumptions right now are this is going to be the part that will make me have to think hard to get er right.

My questions are about load calculations. How on earth do I do a load calc on a log home to determine in choosing how big of a heating and cooling system I will need. I have 3 different software programs that assist me with doing load calculations for homes and office buildings. I have never seen anything on Log Home Structures.

I aint freeqing out about putting the shell up. I have read enough and hopefully I can connect the rest of the dots at my class coming up. But, my deal is, just from previous experiences, doing anything for alternative home type construction can be a real bear, and since I have never done a log home, it's bothering the crap out of me to know.

[H2OFowlerandWife]

Dowadudda,
As I read your post I see that you are focussed on forced air. The thing that may suprise you is that a lot of people are using other alternate methods of heating and cooling.
I see that you are taking the class. Go with an open mind and you'll begin to think outside the box. I don't say this to be sarcastic but I too work construction (plumber -15 yrs Residential, commercial, industrial, I have done more HVAC in the last 10 yrs than plumbing) I know how most people in the trades think. A log home is a different animal compared to stick frame.
Good Luck
You'll be fine and things will start to make sense after the class

[Dowadudda]

thanks for the reply. Your right, I am assuming a lot I guess. I would think in floor radiant would be a good option. I figure by what I have read on the site, and in my other research a lot of people aren't thinking too much about a/c and are using like masonary fireplaces that are acting as heat sinks, plus windows on the prevailing side by sighting the house right. Heat gain in summer aint near what a leaky stick built is like.

And that's all great. But I will have it 68 degrees when it's 100 out. It'd sure be a shame to invite my family and freinds over and it's sweltering in my house. Not gonna have it. I have intentions of buidling the stucture as taught and stick to0 the cheapest way to do that with ncredible quality, but on the creature comforts, no doubt things like a plasma tv will be hanging from my mantle. LOL.

[rocklock]

My cousins have a three story home that has a kind of great room. When it get too hot in the upstairs, and too cold downstairs, they turn on the recirc fan and with in minutes, the temp changes quickly.
I plan on having some kind of recirculation setup....

[Dowadudda]

i am sure I will figure it out.

Looking forward to the class. I will be there this weekend.

[TracyN]

Dowadudda. I took the class in February and I was amazed at how they heated a 7000sq ft. home. I still plan on using a forced air system in my home, probably a heat pump. It gets pretty warm and humid in Missouri and I'll need the AC.

When you get back I'd be interested in picking your brain on HVAC issues. It's one of the big mysteries to me.

Tracy

[Dowadudda]

no problem.

for me, i think i will be able to come away with a "beginning" of new ways to provide some niche services to folks that are doing alternative homes. i want my own house first of course but.

let me explain.

there is a residential only hvac contractor in my contractors group here in my local area. Neat guy. I am mostly commercial refrigeration. Any way he does niche stuff with wind and solar electrical installations along with his primary hvac business. it is truly amazing what he has done on some jobs, and the kicker is none of it is very complicated. concerning hvac, with all the new technology, new ways, it can then be combined with this "free" electricity to create a fantastic combination of mechanical systems for a new home. cheap to operate, exceptional performance, durable and long lastig. and all that kept in mind of the superior efficiency of a log home.

I have read on here the LHBA supports and believes in Hydronics for heating like "radiant floor". You would absolutely be blown away. Have you ever experienced it? It is an incredible heat and comfort. Very "even". Well with that can be, your domestic water. So basically I heat source of energy providing domestic water heat and heat for home, even for snow melting purposes, so you don't have to shovel. Cool stuff.

[Dowadudda]

I have decided it's not a good idea to turn myself into a HVAC guy. LOL. I am gonna do my own with a high velocity duct in the center and do some imaginative runs some how I have yet to figure out. After I got back from class and after seeing how being taught to do the flooring system. I like the openess of it and HVACing homes like this is just not for me. I will stick to refrigeration. LOL.

The one cool idea I have had so far is a cloth sock duct, whis could be taken down or drawn back like a curtain seeing as how ac aint a big thing but only for a month or so.

Doing load calcs and such for this type of home is next to impossible for the average HVAC contractor, from my perspecitive. You aint never gonna make a house built like this follow the science of air flow unless you run duct, and if your gonna run duct, it's going to be veiwable unless you box em in chases reducing space. Center wall aint gonna do it all.

[ponyboy]

Radiant forced air? :-)

http://www.airfloor.com/

[Dowadudda]

never seen it, never worked on anythign like it. can't say two words more about it.

[eparks]

That looks like a great idea. I am going to be using radiant heat in the floor. Probably putting the water tubes right under the floor. I'm wondering what would happen if a person create a duct system similar to what these folks did but use the space right above the insulation to pass air through so you could also have cooling along with a forced air heat system. Since the tubes will be under the floor, it will heat the floor and the air in the winter and just run cool air in the summer. Any thoughts or concerns? One concern would be cooling, condensation and mold on the wood. That would be a very bad thing. Let me know if I'm on track or totally out in left field.

Eric

[Dowadudda]

still need a floor to put it in. and that air aint etting upsatir that way either.

It reminds me of raised floor computer room a/c I service.

I got to looking at it and it's really not new stuff. Just packaged to make you think so.

[ponyboy]

I suppose you could run a few ducts from the floor to the upstairs. Looks like you could almost put them anywhere along the wall. For that matter it looks like you could put them in the middle of the floor if you want.

Maybe you could hollow out a log to use as a duct to the second floor and make it look like a support log. :!:


Jeff

[Dowadudda]

I thought about this. but you'd have to taxidermy the log first. Like plasticize it. It may or may not pass code either. If you put the thing thats pictured in that website in your house, it would not be adequate for the second floor.

That have water cooled stand alone units. Carrier is one brand I can think of. They stand in a small footprint, with sound proofing doors. They return air from the bottom and supply out the top. Their very popular in musuems and large open sapces such as warehouses and such. They can be sized for any space. They can be faced with attarctive aesthetics.

I will come back and post a few links. But anyway. I work on a ton of these. This to me would solve the A/C issue. But it's gonna need a space to put it, so it will take up floor space, although not much. It's not gonna be perfect like a forced air ducted system, but I am not of the same mind set I was. Perfect air flow for a log home that is open such as the one I will do, it may not need precise air flow.

[loghousenut]

I know Dowdudda has already solved his initial problem so I think I'll just NOT open that link.