Can you build a LHBA home on a monolithic concrete slab?

[Prissy Pink]

My husband and I are planning on building a log home. We are selling the log home we built in 1996. This time we are seriously considering going to the LHBA class in March and building a butt and pass log home? Can we put a LHBA style home on a monolithic concrete slab?

[rreidnauer]

Just a flat slab without any additional structure below the perimeter? I'd say no. Some sort of footing (which could be combined with the slab pour) to carry the high weight and possible point loading would be needed. And, in Northern climates, depth of foundation needs to get below frost levels. Finally, it's usually not a good idea, due to the proximity of the logs to soil.

[StressMan79]

I did a slab poured inside a stem wall. Made the footer 8 inch thick with lots of transverse bar. Still took 4.5 yd. Bout 30 inch wide. Lots of detail as to how to get the floating slab to work.

[rocklock]

We are selling the log home we built in 1996?
Can we put a LHBA style home on a monolithic concrete slab?

I would like to hear more about the home that you built and why you have selected LHBA style.

I presume that you know that whole logs weigh a bunch and must be supported. A monolithic slab could be 4 inches with a wire mesh as the reinforcement... My logs weigh between 150,000 and 200,000 pounds and need to be supported.... Then there is the frost line in Middle Tenn. I have no idea where or how deep the foundation needs to be... but it ain't 4 inches... In general, the recommendation is to keep your logs at least 1 foot above the soil. My log home is above 18 inches...

So, the short answer is NO!. But of course there are many options to modify the area so that your logs will not be moving around on there own.
If we knew more about the frost line, the dimensions of the slab, the soil structure and some more stuff, we may be able to help.

[Prissy Pink]

I would like to hear more about the home that you built and why you have selected LHBA style.

I presume that you know that whole logs weigh a bunch and must be supported. A monolithic slab could be 4 inches with a wire mesh as the reinforcement... My logs weigh between 150,000 and 200,000 pounds and need to be supported.... Then there is the frost line in Middle Tenn. I have no idea where or how deep the foundation needs to be... but it ain't 4 inches... In general, the recommendation is to keep your logs at least 1 foot above the soil. My log home is above 18 inches...

So, the short answer is NO!. But of course there are many options to modify the area so that your logs will not be moving around on there own.
If we knew more about the frost line, the dimensions of the slab, the soil structure and some more stuff, we may be able to help.



Thank you for the advice. If we pour a concrete slab it will have a footing around the perimeter that will be below frost line with rebar throughout to meet codes requirements. Our intent is to have the slab just outside the logs drop down 3 inches from below finished floor and extend 8 feet out around the entire perimeter for a covered porch floor. so hopefully this would resolve the issue of soil being too close to the logs. Does this sound doable?

[loghousenut]

Yeah, but why?

There are several ways of doing it all. Take the class. You won't regret it.

[rreidnauer]

That would be completely doable.

LHN, whatever happened to that guy that use to say that concrete is cheap? I'm going to take a guess at the 'why' comment. The design would be perfect for elderly or disabled persons, having everything on the same level without need for ramps.

As for disadvantages, the only one I can really think of is you are committed to the floor layout once you set your under-slab drain lines. (though, even that could be altered with some doing as long as you don't run radiant heat lines in the slab)

[Prissy Pink]

It is looking like building a LHBA log home is not going to work for us here in Middle Tennessee. We had already purchased blueprints for $700.00 that do not have the specifications for a LHBa home. The roof system would have to be changed. That would be more expense. Also we would need to incur the expense of the class. Also we have priced some milled 6 x 12 logs that appear to be less expensive ($5.60 per linear foot) than the unmilled logs for and LHBA home. We really like the look of the LHBA log home but we could only build it if it could save us some money. Can you assure us that we can save money on the cost of the unmilled logs?

[rreidnauer]

He he. The cost of the class is quickly recovered in savings on the job. The knowledge base of the member's side is worth the cost of the class alone. Once you start thinking non-traditionally about acquiring materials, costs can really drop. Of course, none of us can guarranty you can get your logs cheaper. That would really fall upon you. LHBA can show you the door, but you must walk through it yourself. The decision is yours. I make no money or incentive to convince you to do so, but believe it would be in your best interest to attend the class.

As far as plans, now that you have a set, you could draw your own, transferring the code specs to your set. Most bldg depts are pretty easy going on residential home plans as long as they show the code requirements.

[Blondie]

Whoa! Prissy Pink! I am more than delighted that you have found this site. First of all please notice that we are not trying to sell you anything. There is a class you can take if you so desire, however "we" will Give info to you freely. Let's see your first question was handled well for the Stressman and Rod. They are professionals. However you do not need to be a professional to do the research on unmilled logs in your area. Please call around and find an independent logger in your area and ask him.

Unmilled logs of say 14inches in diameter, properly treated will last longer, require no insulation and are inexpensive compared to the milled logs.

PLEASE before you spend another cent read this blog more thoroughly and do some research. If your money is half as dear as mine it is not be thrown away.

If you have more questions, lets us know.

Blondie

[patrickandbianca]

Nothing is ever guaranteed. However, the cost to chuck your blueprints, go to the class and build an LHBA home CAN be way cheaper than building with milled logs.

5.60 a linear foot seems high. I paid about 3.40 a linear foot, a lot of people get them cheaper, some pay more. Using what was taught in class, I ended up with a total finished cost of $31 a sqft.

Patrick

[loghousenut]

It is looking like building a LHBA log home is not going to work for us here in Middle Tennessee. We had already purchased blueprints for $700.00 that do not have the specifications for a LHBa home. The roof system would have to be changed. That would be more expense. Also we would need to incur the expense of the class. Also we have priced some milled 6 x 12 logs that appear to be less expensive ($5.60 per linear foot) than the unmilled logs for and LHBA home. We really like the look of the LHBA log home but we could only build it if it could save us some money. Can you assure us that we can save money on the cost of the unmilled logs?

Pinky,

If you had $11,000 invested in a really nice classic 66 Chevy pickup, with only $5,000 left to make it perfect, is that the truck you'd want to be tied to for the next 10 years even if the truck you really wanted was a 4x4 crewcab diesel? Aim for what you really want. Temporary diversions are all just a part of the process. The journey starts anew every minute and it starts from here (wherever here is). Whatever happened yesterday was just schooling for what will happen today.

Build the place you want to. Live in the place you want to live in. If you tossed all of the headstart you have toward the wrong place in the creek and started over... Well you know what I'm gonna say. Take the class.

Prior investment should not guide you to a decision that you think is wrong. You are building a home for your Grandkids.

Don't think for a minute that I'm saying there is any reason why you shouldn't go ahead down that other road... I'm just pointing out what you seem to be saying.

[loghousenut]

Pinky,

PS... Don't know which method of building would be cheaper in the long run. I think it would be nickels and dimes compared to the total bill. I do know that either would be doable and if you wanted to do either method with your own hands, and without a mortgage, you could get er done.

We'll be a lot more help if you choose LHBA just because the members side is so full of baloney from so many people who have done it. The collective bunch of us seem to know a lot about the quirks and solutions for this particular system of owner-building.

[Prissy Pink]

[QUOTE=Blondie;99520]Whoa! Prissy Pink! I am more than delighted that you have found this site. First of all please notice that we are not trying to sell you anything. There is a class you can take if you so desire, however "we" will Give info to you freely. Let's see your first question was handled well for the Stressman and Rod. They are professionals. However you do not need to be a professional to do the research on unmilled logs in your area. Please call around and find an independent logger in your area and ask him.

Unmilled logs of say 14inches in diameter, properly treated will last longer, require no insulation and are inexpensive compared to the milled logs.

PLEASE before you spend another cent read this blog more thoroughly and do some research. If your money is half as dear as mine it is not be thrown away.

If you have more questions, lets us know.

Blondie[/QUOTE


Ok. We are researching. And my husband found a logger on line who may be able to help. us with the cost of our logs. We are going to the mill tomorrow to look. So I'm hoping that LHBA is still doable.

As far as drawing our own set of plans and transferring the specs. That seems very difficult. My husband nor I are draftsmen. Is it easier than I'm thinking?

I also found the website for the Tennessee Forestry Association. It has a long list of loggers. So far no one on that list wants to sell unmilled logs. I think they make their money in the milling process. Still trying though.

[StressMan79]

Don't forget the area taken by d logs vs whole logs. @ $5/8x12 area. So $7.50/sf. If you look around, a 12 in log should be around 3.50/ft, so maximum of $3.50/sf... half what you pay for the milled "logs".

[Prissy Pink]

We are researching. My husband found a logger online here in Tennessee who may be able to get us unmilled logs pretty inexpensive in comparison to milled logs. I am still calling every one online I can find in this area. So my husband says if we can save on the logs it mays still be doable.

About the plans. Drawing up our own set and adding different specs sounds rather difficult. Neither my husband nor I have any drafting experience. Is this easier than I'm thinking?

[rreidnauer]

You're still making some poor choices that will cost you money. Such as, you said you're going to the mill to look at logs. That's the wrong person to talk to because they are the middle man. Break out the White Pages and find loggers there, and not someone with a fancy website and shiny trucks.

As for drawing your plans, go to your building department and chat with them. No better way to get a good feel for things than to know exactly what they'd be looking for. Ya don't have to identify yourself if you're worried about your privacy. You're just there to ask questions and get advice. I bet it'll go way better than you may fear.

[Prissy Pink]

Just a note to Blondie. I would like to talk to you. Thought I saw a message from u but I can't find it now. My number is [redacted by admin]. Please give me a call.

[Prissy Pink]

Actually we are going tomorrow to look at some poplar logs that belong to a logger (not a mill). I'm excited. If we can get these logs for less than the milled ones then we can build the LHBA way. He has quoted us a price that is about $2.00 a linear foot. This sounds pretty good to us depending on how they look and if they can be peeled easily. What do you guys think?

Also is there any way to find out how many places are left in the class? I sure don't want to wait too late.

[Plumb Level]

Welcome to the website. I paid about $2.30 per lineal foot for my logs, including delivery. As Stressman pointed out, you are getting a lot more material with a whole log.....so don't just compare prices per lineal foot.

That extra material translates into better R value, which will save a lot of money heating and cooling over the long haul.

You mentioned a full wrap around porch which will keep water off the walls. In my opinion, this is absolutely necessary with D timbers or any type of milled timbers. You end up with flat surface on flat surface, and moisture really likes to be drawn into those types of spaces...then it remains trapped. With this LHBA method, as long as you have large overhangs, it isn't necessary to do a full wrap around porch. So maybe you could just do porches on 2 or 3 sides and save some money that way.

Also, big logs have serious cool factor that can never me obtained with milled lumber/timbers.

Taking the class will pay for itself whether you build this method or not.

[loghousenut]

Pinky,

Your phone # just went out to a ton of good and bad people. You oughta edit it out. After class you'll be on the private side and it's safe there.

And if you're going to class, don't commit to any logs. Consider everything you do right now as investigation and inspiration. The same, or better, deal will be there after class and your timeline may change as you do.

[Prissy Pink]

Pinky,

Your phone # just went out to a ton of good and bad people. You oughta edit it out. After class you'll be on the private side and it's safe there.

And if you're going to class, don't commit to any logs. Consider everything you do right now as investigation and inspiration. The same, or better, deal will be there after class and your timeline may change as you do.

Hey longhouse nut. Can u tell me how to edit out my phone number?

[rreidnauer]

Go to your post, there is a "Edit Post" button to the lower right of your post.

[loghousenut]

Hey longhouse nut. Can u tell me how to edit out my phone number?

Nope... But Rod can.

[rreidnauer]

.....and admin took care of it already anyhow. :)

I just remembered, I don't think regular users can edit posts.

[Prissy Pink]

.....and admin took care of it already anyhow. :)

I just remembered, I don't think regular users can edit posts.


Well I did it anyway (edited my post) so no one else can call me. And while Im here what do youguys think of getting 12" tulip poplar logs for about $2.00 a linear foot and peeling them and using the bark to make siding for the dormers and part of the garage? The poplar bark is supposed to last about a 100 years. Did you learn anything about that in class? Oh and by the way, my husband and I took the plunge and got signed up for the March class. We are so excited about it. And Blondie I'm not spending another dime till after the class is over.

I sure do appreciate you guys advice. That plus looking at some of the houses going up in pictures was very convincing. Can't wait till class.

[rreidnauer]

Poplar has been used by some here. A little more work due to relative hardness compared to conifers, but it has an amazing texture when peeled. Don't know if you'll successfully peel it in perfect sheets to use as siding. Is 12" the top measurement, or at the butt? My personal cuttoff is 12" tops, preferably 14+.

[Prissy Pink]

Poplar has been used by some here. A little more work due to relative hardness compared to conifers, but it has an amazing texture when peeled. Don't know if you'll successfully peel it in perfect sheets to use as siding. Is 12" the top measurement, or at the butt? My personal cuttoff is 12" tops, preferably 14+.

I don't know yet about the top measurement of the logs. We haven't gotten to see them yet.

The poplar log peeling is supposed to be very easy if you harvest them in spring or early summer according to the logger that we talked to around here. I'll wait to buy anything till after class. I got my flight and hotel booked today. So excited.

[ivanshayka]

Logger is correct about peeling, but he failed to mention that the tree will be filled with sap/water and be supper heavy. The water is not the issue, the issue is when this tree is trying to dry it will check tremendously. Poplar splits little more than usual anyways, cutting it in a summer will only potentiate it (?spelling). Great idea on waiting to do anything before you take the class.

[loghousenut]

Logger is correct about peeling, but he failed to mention that the tree will be filled with sap/water and be supper heavy. The water is not the issue, the issue is when this tree is trying to dry it will check tremendously. Poplar splits little more than usual anyways, cutting it in a summer will only potentiate it (?spelling). Great idea on waiting to do anything before you take the class.

I think you mean potatoate... Has something to do with the Cambrian layer that happened about 840,000,000 years ago.

I say peel em in the winter too, but I've never done anything with poplar except firewood.

[rreidnauer]

Starting to feel like a Dan Quayle skit.

[JAK]

I thought he was a politician

[rreidnauer]

So did he. :p

[dazedandconfused]

I built with poplar, cut in Nov tried peeling right away, and they laughed at me ( the bark that is) came back in april peeling was much easier, not sure about full sheets but I had 30 ft pieces, here a pic of the texture which I love, large overhangs, and Skip says use what you got, i cut mine on the property.


http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb401/jweber52376/Log%20Home/DSC_0191.jpg (http://s1204.photobucket.com/user/jweber52376/media/Log%20Home/DSC_0191.jpg.html)

[AkChas]

Whew! Wow - I was reading through this thread and it felt like watching a train-wreck, in slow motion! I was cringing at the thought that the Pinks were putting the cart before the horse by going out to buy logs, pour slab, et cetera -- without benefit of having taken the class (Don't Look!!! :eek: ).

Then the "Whew" factor kicked in when I saw Pink-post, indicating she/he/they, were enrolled in class! (Wow! That was a close-call).

Pinks: I'll echo -- and add -- that the cost of the class will pay for itself MANY times over, along the entire process of your build! Even if you do NOT build LHBA/Butt-n-Pass, you will gain knowledge (wisdom), that will help you all along the way. And then there's the access to the resources (and characters), on this Forum -- especially on the Members side -- along with solicited (and UnSolicited) advice for every step along the way (as you no doubt have gotten a taste of in this-here thread). Oh! And then toss in the Labor resources gained! Many of us (myself included), tend to help other members with their Log Home builds, which is a Win-Win. The builder gets "free" labor (only cost to builder is usually Grub, sometimes Suds : ) and conversely, potentially, there's the availability of member-help on yours, when you decide to build (Grub/Suds cost may still apply). And don't even get me started on the resources here by Professional Engineer members, actual Full-Time / no-kidding / Real-Deal member(s) that build as a full-time profession, whose talents can be drawn upon / hired, at various critical stages of your build.

In short, You have stumbled upon a Life-Altering web resource. Take the class, join the LHBA and you will understand and wonder.... "What on Earth was I thinking???" Welcome Mr/Mrs Pink! Enjoy the adventure!

Chas

[loghousenut]

For the second time today I have had to ditto what Chas has to say. Just plain ole ditto. Go back and reread his post and put the LHN stamp on it.

[Mosseyme]

About that poplar, Yes a dream to peel in the spring, and is beautiful, late summer/fall not so much. We were going to use them for girders, tried for about 5 minutes to peel one, couldn't even get to the wood on 2 inches, went and told him I couldn't peel it. He came and spent about 5 minutes trying to get the spud through to the wood. We put it on the mill and made 6"x 8" beams out of it for the second floor joist.

[Prissy Pink]

Thanks to everyone who posted above. We have our poplar logs. About 55 at 42 feet long. Went to the class in March. It was very informative. The basement is going to be poured this week or next. I will try to attach a picture later.

[panderson03]

wow. thanks for the update. so glad you're moving forward. can you post some pic's?? Whoo Hooo!

[Prissy Pink]

Go to Wheres Prissy Pink? I'm posting pics there.