Buy logs or use my own??? [Archive] - Log Home Builders Association Forums

gepper

01-01-2014, 01:05 PM

Hello everyone. My wife and I just signed up for the March class and are super excited about this whole log cabin thing. We recently purchase some land that is thick with oak, poplar, maple and some other stuff. We are planning to buy a sawmill and try to make a little money selling rough cut lumber. My question is should I use my own timber to build because it's available and "free" or try to buy logs? I'm not sure it's so smart to use the timber on our land to build when a less expensive option is available, even though it will be another expenditure. I know this will be discussed in the class but if I decide to use my own, I'd like to start felling before the sap starts running. Any thoughts from you experienced folks? Thanks and I look forward to being a part of the association.

Mosseyme

01-01-2014, 01:47 PM

Welcome to the family. Your journey begins. First a couple of questions. What neck of the woods is your property in. What is the size of the trees on the land. Is there a local logger that could help get the logs down? Do you have means to move them from place to place. How much disturbance and change in your property are you ok with? Logging can be done well and somewhat clean or can leave a real mess. You could possibly get a logger to fell the trees rather quickly then buck them and move them on your own if you have the means.
We have done the logging ourselves, very slow and dangerous due to the terrain we were logging but our motivation was that the trees were dying and had to come down to keep from having them come down on our heads. It has taken us a long time and it really is pushing us on getting them covered before we lose more. We also have a portable sawmill with which to mill the logs not good for home. Logging,Not recommended by the class. A lot of variables.
Maybe give a little more info on where you are, what you have, what equipment you have or a able and willing to buy.
Again welcome and enjoy the journey.

eagle

01-01-2014, 04:22 PM

If you don't want the trees and they have to come down anyway, why not use them. However, it can be a lot more work, time involved, etc. I personally am not going to cut my own (I am not sure I would have enough anyway) because I like trees on my place although I may cut a few if I were to run short or something. I figure I will have enough work ahead of me to be dealing with that part.

JAK

01-01-2014, 04:40 PM

If there straight. Use them. I'm planning to use all my own wood I have. More time and energy than I do funds doing your own hard wood floors awesome welcome aboard and in joy the ride. Joe

drummer boy

01-01-2014, 09:43 PM

We are cutting our own down as well. It is a lot of extra work and time, but I do like the free part. O...and our trees are dying as well...I am scared to death that one of these trees will kill me when they are being cut. I do have help from a logger and do my best to let him cut them while I stand far away.:) BUT it IS slow going. If I had more money and the trees were not being killed by beetles, I would have a log truck come in with some sexy logs. :o

loghousenut

01-02-2014, 04:39 AM

Gepper and Boss Gepper,

Welcome aboard. March is just around the corner and there's a lot to be done before those trees have to drop. There have been folks who walk out of class and instantly are 100% ready to drop their wall logs but most of us have a ton of deciding and prep work that would preclude stacking logs within 6 months of class. If you were my neighbor I'd recommend waiting to drop the logs.

Hopefully you don't have a foundation already waiting. There are things to do and if the logging can wait, let it. Nothing wrong with moving forward on a mill, especially if you are going to be trying to make a buck at it.

Most LHBA members don't do their own logging but I did and I think that's half the reason to build a log home.

You've made the big leap and March is practically here already. That house will get done before you're too old to enjoy it. I say let the calendar win this one and wait to make any decisions on house logs.

gepper

01-02-2014, 09:12 AM

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone. The land is 80 acres right smack dab in the middle of Michigan. We bought it because it was near some family but it turns out the timber was a bonus...that's really what led us to the LHBA. I don't believe it has ever been cut because some of the oaks pretty big...by pretty big I'm guessing 30" in diameter. I recognize logging them myself is quite a task but it's part of the allure of this whole process. I've seen what the land looks like after a logging company comes in and "Select Cuts" and I'm not a big fan. As far as what equipment I have available or am willing to buy, I will soon have a backhoe, sawmill and of course, a couple chainsaws...that's it so far. It seems like a little demo hammer will need to be in the budge as well as some hand tools (bark spud, draw knife, cant hook etc.). I'll probably be willing to rent other items that are necessary (telehandler???). If I were to buy logs, what should I expect to pay? Has anyone done that recently? Even if I use some of my own, I'm planning to build at least three "log homes" on the property and don't really want to take too many. Another question I have is that we are planning a small "grandparents" cabin and we're thinking to do that one first as a "learning tool" but I'm afraid that it will be so much work, I won't want to build the "main" house. Has anyone built more than one and did it suck? Thoughts?

ivanshayka

01-02-2014, 04:24 PM

Hey there fellow Michigander. I am in Traverse City, building 22 mi out of town. I have 5 ac, with red pine on it. I built a small 10x10 with roof overhang porch, I used red pine. Since the next class is in March, Meanwhile read all u can on nonmembers side of the forum. One thing, when I built my shed, it was a lot of work but it drove me crazy and inpatient to start my house. The shed made me more exited about the house. Also, just to mention, if you have any kind of pine on ur land, consider yourself lucky. I have had people quote me between $150 to $300 per log here in MI, plus trucking fee. I hope this will give you a hint. I also would like to contact you if it does not violate the LHBA rules (probably does). I say, what for the class.

logguy

01-02-2014, 05:59 PM

I have 100 acres here in Missouri and had four or five different loggers in here give me a quote on logging 25 acres. All of the guys were iffy on whether they wanted the job because they didn't think they would make much on it. Turns out we both made more than 3x what we thought! I say that to say, those trees are worth huge dough, you may not use as many as you may think you will to build using such large logs, and you may wind up just making such a small dent in your 80 wooded (??) acres that you could wind up improving, rather that destroying, your land by thinning it out. I only have 50 year growth, if that, here. Your forestry folks may come out and give you recommendations on how best to thin your woods out that could really help you make some good decisions. Remember, you've got to clear the sites and driveways to those sites and that's a whole lotta logs if you like twisty driveways!

logguy

01-02-2014, 06:07 PM

Oh--and I agree--WAIT until you take the class. Wait, wait, wait. Just going out on a limb here, but I don't think anyone here would recommend that you make any plans to fall logs until you take the class. I had the same Q and I'm sure glad I didn't.

drummer boy

01-02-2014, 07:50 PM

you are going to hear an echo here on the forums. "Take the class first". i changed my entire strategy after taking the class. I am like loghousenut and am cutting down my logs. I am not doing them alone but with a professional. after the class you may change your mind about cutting them yourself. You will see the entire world differently after the class. You will change a lot. Can't wait to see you on the other side.

gepper

01-03-2014, 03:08 PM

Hey, Ivanshayka. Technically, I'm not a Michigander yet; I actually live in Colorado. We plan to sort of go back and forth for the next few years. It's funny that you are fond of pine...if you're not aware, Colorado is full of pine and I HATE it!!!! That was actually one of the draws to Michigan. Why do you like it? I'd be happy to get in touch if the LHBA is okay with it. If not, definitely after the class.

gepper

01-03-2014, 03:17 PM

Thanks, logguy. Good advice. I plan to contact the forestry folks in the area and find out what they have to say. I talked to a lumber broker this morning and he said the Red Oak would bring about $700/mbf. That seems like a lot but that would be that would be 10 one hundred foot trees, or $70 each and that it with 3 clear faces. I can't imagine I can buy logs for cheaper, especially considering freight. I will certainly wait for the class to make any decision but...

ivanshayka

01-06-2014, 10:31 PM

I like pine because it is a very good wood to build a Loghome with, easy to work with it, relatively strait (depends on the species), and sometimes just to have a little verity in your woods. Let's get in contact after class, definitely. There are few of us in MI. Make sure to do all of your research first, and hopefully you have pine on your land to build with, might save u some $.

Reason for waiting after class is because you most likely change your mind on size or type of structure. Another reason to wait is because with this system you can cut, peel, and stack the log on the same day. There is no need to cure or season your logs. So by the time you get your permits, do your foundation, collect some tools, you might end up at the end of summer and into the fall to start stacking, that is if you are planning on using your own pine( or poplar in your case). You can definitely use your own timber if it is something you want. If you use poplar, it might be easier to peel if cit in the spring or summer, but has more checking.

rockinlog

01-27-2014, 06:39 PM

i am wondering does anyone have an opinion on the best type of wood to use for a log home and by best i mean as far as termites or just overall the best insect resistant i have heard cypress any suggestions would be helpful as i have not even purchased land as of yet also is there a wood that you would try to stay away from? thanks everyone!!

ivanshayka

01-27-2014, 10:14 PM

DON'T use palm trees. Bamboo wouldn't due to hollow inside. Most everything else is a fair game. From what I heard, Skip used to say "use what you have". What it means is any tree that's strait with relatively moderate taper is fair game. My personal opinion is that cedar trees are very good (soft, good R-value, poor insect food, etc). Most fir trees are great, very strong for a conifer. Most any pine is great. Some people on here used poplar, some even oak. I am using Red Pine. Not my ideal choice but this is what I got and this is what I'm using.

rockinlog

01-28-2014, 08:16 AM

jcs3419

01-28-2014, 09:34 AM

Even if I use some of my own, I'm planning to build at least three "log homes" on the property and don't really want to take too many. Another question I have is that we are planning a small "grandparents" cabin and we're thinking to do that one first as a "learning tool" but I'm afraid that it will be so much work, I won't want to build the "main" house. Has anyone built more than one and did it suck? Thoughts?

That's a good question. Like Ivan, I built a cabin to practice. I built a 12x12 shed. It was a blast because I didn't have any code compliance to worry about. The house we are now building (45x36) is a lot more work because of Code issues. We'er actually building in Colorado. What part do you live in?

My desire to build another one ebbs and flows based on my wallet. When I just spent a bunch of money on roofing, I think to myself. I will never do this again! But, I had a guy ask me what it would cost to have me build him one. In two minutes, I was excited and trying to get Fireman9 (LHBA member) trying to get on board to help me.

I can tell you, I will probably build at least one more home when I finish our Colorado home. Will it be a log home? Not quiet sure. It really depends on a lot of variables. I tend to be a "been there, done that" kind of guy. I may try a timber frame after this one!

bkinmore

12-07-2015, 06:25 PM

Where in WA is a good place to buy logs from?

StressMan79

12-08-2015, 10:46 AM

Where in WA is a good place to buy logs from?
W of the cascades logs are straighter but E of the cascades logs have tighter growth rings

rocklock

12-08-2015, 12:18 PM

Where in WA is a good place to buy logs from?

If you take the class and go to the members side I have posted my efforts in getting logs with phone numbers. There were also many suggestions on how to find a private land owner that is selling logs...

IMHO it is not easy until you have a clue how to talk the talk... For example, you do not talk the measurement of tops or minimums. It shows that you are a beginner and they will take advantage of you in a heart beat!

There are logs all over the place in Washington., you just need access... and a little smarts.

OBTW I used 22 of my own logs. I only cleared a 40 by 100 space. Had I cleared 1 acre I would have had enough...

bkinmore

12-08-2015, 08:17 PM

If you take the class and go to the members side I have posted my efforts in getting logs with phone numbers. There were also many suggestions on how to find a private land owner that is selling logs...

IMHO it is not easy until you have a clue how to talk the talk... For example, you do not talk the measurement of tops or minimums. It shows that you are a beginner and they will take advantage of you in a heart beat!

There are logs all over the place in Washington., you just need access... and a little smarts.

OBTW I used 22 of my own logs. I only cleared a 40 by 100 space. Had I cleared 1 acre I would have had enough...
Thanks Rocklock. I'm here in Waikiki, originally from Mililani. Taking the class in Feb, along with a trip to WA. Plan on moving to WA within the next 2 years.

rocklock

12-08-2015, 10:52 PM

Thanks Rocklock. I'm here in Waikiki, originally from Mililani.

I'm in Aiea. I built on Camano Island. I have a ton of stuff if you would like to see... Where are you planning to move too in Wa? I may have a few suggestions...

bkinmore

12-08-2015, 11:05 PM

I'm in Aiea. I built on Camano Island. I have a ton of stuff if you would like to see... Where are you planning to move too in Wa? I may have a few suggestions...
We were thinking Snoqualmie, Fall City, Snoqualmie Pass, or Granite Falls, but nothing set in stone yet.

StressMan79

12-09-2015, 10:07 AM

We were thinking Snoqualmie, Fall City, Snoqualmie Pass, or Granite Falls, but nothing set in stone yet.

Snoqualmie pass has a rated snow load of 300 lbf/sf!

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rocklock

12-09-2015, 11:49 AM

We were thinking Snoqualmie, Fall City, Snoqualmie Pass, or Granite Falls, but nothing set in stone yet.
I am familiar with Granite Falls which is north of Everett but not in heavy snow country. I am unsure of what county the others are in. Stay far far away from King County. You are in the big middle of where many big Doug Fir trees exist.

Camano Island (north end) is in the shadow of Olympic Peninsula, which means we only get about 17-19 inches of rain and the winters are very mild suitable for some one from Mililani. Whidbey Island would be another suggestion for exactly the same reason.

But of course there are many reasons to locate a home... relatives, work, and other stuff that can't be moved... My best suggestion is to take your time and look around... You may find something that you never expected....

bkinmore

12-09-2015, 03:13 PM

I am familiar with Granite Falls which is north of Everett but not in heavy snow country. I am unsure of what county the others are in. Stay far far away from King County. You are in the big middle of where many big Doug Fir trees exist.

Camano Island (north end) is in the shadow of Olympic Peninsula, which means we only get about 17-19 inches of rain and the winters are very mild suitable for some one from Mililani. Whidbey Island would be another suggestion for exactly the same reason.

But of course there are many reasons to locate a home... relatives, work, and other stuff that can't be moved... My best suggestion is to take your time and look around... You may find something that you never expected....
What's the reason to stay away from King County? Taxes & permitting?

loghousenut

12-09-2015, 09:08 PM

Yes and yess

bkinmore

12-10-2015, 05:07 PM

Snoqualmie pass has a rated snow load of 300 lbf/sf!

Sent from my VS986 using Forum Runner
Is that a headache for log homes, or just a roofing issue?

allen84

12-10-2015, 07:22 PM

Is that a headache for log homes, or just a roofing issue?

That's a bunch of darn snow, I'm picturing a bunch of 300LB men on a roof. And I don't think there is a single 300 pounder that would only take up 1 square foot above the knees. I don't think it would be a headache or issue for a LHBA style log home, but might be for the engineer. Yes, it's a roofing issue but also very much an overall structural issue when you are talking about that kind of weight. I think the snow load here in middle TN is 10 lb/sq.foot and east TN might see that kind of load but I think that'd be a record here around Nashville.

Heck, 1-2 inches of snow shuts us down. Our temps cause snow to melt and turn to ice, nobody here can drive in either. Tow truck drivers around here have to be really raking in the money when we have our "winter weather".

allen84

12-10-2015, 08:03 PM

And to answer the original question... If it were me, and my property had the logs I needed, I'd use or sell them unless I wanted them to stay standing for privacy. I'm about to start clearing more of my land. Anything worthy of cabin material will remain standing until I need it. The rest will be sold, burned or both. Slash might be buried instead of burned. Cleared land tends to be more valuable. So I figure I reap most the benefits if I do all the work to clean it up... paid to clear it and increased value if I ever sell.

I've started taking orders for cedar fence posts... I've had enough calls to keep me busy all next week and might end up needing temporary hired help. I have a young neighbor that does a lot of logging, has a saw and is always up for the extra work. Aside from leaving something special behind, my goal is for my land to pay for itself and hopefully one day create a place to experience, create memories and continue to make an income for myself and others.

Also AND probably most importantly, my wife loves the look of an open field/hillside opposed to one that's tree filled. I think we'll all be happy with vegetation that will feed us and not hinder the view!

I price what I sell slightly above what the mill would pay me for it but less than what they would sell for and have the advantage of not actually hauling it anywhere myself unless delivery is arranged.

StressMan79

12-10-2015, 08:10 PM

Is that a headache for log homes, or just a roofing issue?

I got the number from rockengineer. Granted I think it's right at the pass. But 15 ft of snow is not unheard of. My location is 30 lbs/sf, 50 recommended.

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bkinmore

12-10-2015, 08:27 PM

Thanks for all the info guys! Can't wait to see what's on the member's side. Yeah, this Hawaiian severely underestimated how much snow is over there. We'll just visit for skiing:)

rreidnauer

12-11-2015, 03:14 AM

loghousenut

12-11-2015, 07:43 AM

300psf on a stock built 40x40 LHBA home equates to 700,000+ pounds of snow. That would be equivalent to nine fully loaded tractor trailers parked on the roof. Does that sound like a problem?

One had better build a roof steep enough to shed snow, unless one would enjoy the idea of being crushed under several hundred tons of snow and roof.

Finally Rod comes along talking some real horse-sense. It is closer to reality to get a bunch of big rigs parking on the roof than to try and get me, and a bunch more 300 pound fat ole men, up there. My question is this... If the roof is steep enough to shed snow, how do you keep all 9 tractor trailers up there?