Houseal non-settling system using steel rods and coped corners.

[michaelharleman]

I see that in the handcrafted chinked homes they use a similar method as the LHBA. However, they cope out the ends so that the corners are coped. This is a bit more attractive style. The centers of the logs are not coped though at all. They drill a steel rod through the log and attach each log to each other with steel. I have a few questions:

1) has anyone seen this patented houseal non-settling system? http://www.precisioncraft.com/THS/Product/HandcraftedLog.html Would be it be something you can DIY?

2) If you didn't want to do butt and pass but wanted to do the coped corners would this be something you could learn in a few months or would it take years?

3) With the butt and pass sytem it seems the way to build is with one square or rectangular shape whereas other handcrafted homes have a myriad of shapes which allows for greater flexibility with lot sizes and for building a larger home with wings off of the great room. I am interested in building a home that has a design which has a 27 x 27 wing on the left side, a 35 by 35 center and a 27 by 27 wing on the ride side. Can you do this with the butt and pass system or would it be easier with a coped, chinked, rebared style. I must admit that the handcrafted chinked coped corners look aesthetically better than the butt and pass chinked corners whereas the butt and pass is most definitely much easier to do and to get a shell up quickly.

Does anyone have any knowledge on this subject? Any info appreciated.

[thoner7]

Honestly, it looks like that company is copying the system taught here, only made it more complicated and more expensive [likely significantly more expensive] than it needs to be. I wouldn't doubt it if they took the Class!!If you wanted to notch each log so that they overlapped each other, you definitely could, but expect a ton of extra work for that look. There are plenty of videos on YouTube that teach the technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an2mZpaPTpA

Me personally, I used to like the look of the notched/coped/chinkless designs better, but the more I looked, the more I liked the butt and pass look. And at the end of the day, it wont matter anyways, because I'll still be in a Log Home that will be the envy of all my friends.

You could definitely build the house you just described. The squares would essentially be interwoven and share a common wall

[michaelharleman]

Thank you for the reply thoner7. I looked at that builder's video and website and he seems to be building scribed chinkless houses. Whereas the ones I am talking about have coped corners but he center part is chinked together.

[michaelharleman]

If you look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-J7LJ1AsXQ you can see that there is almost a continuous steel bar that is in these logs. I know that this is much more labor intensive. But this system is different because it seems there is a continuous steel pin and bolt system that creates one continuous steel frame throughout the whole log wall. Also with these homes they are not doing just a simple square or rectangle, which allows for more differentiation.

[Mosseyme]

To each his own preference but this is a whole different cookie than what we do. I would guess many times the labor, and many times the money. They are beautiful but not my personal choice even if I wanted to spend that kind of money. I don't quite under stand how they get the no settle with a steel rod going the whole length unless they have some kind of bracket between the logs to keep them from settling.

[dazedandconfused]

They are beautiful no doubt, anyone else notice how log homebuilders are getting away from the uniform look, swelled butts, overhangs, I do like it for sure just no way to afford it, I bet they are over 200 a sq ft.

[michaelharleman]

I am aware that the LHBA style is butt and pass and rebar. The things I have noticed about this system are as follows:

1) the chinking is not as clean.
2) there does not seem to be as much variety with different wall configurations and designs. Only a single box design with a center pole.
3) In researching what type of build to do I have found that handcrafted log homes are built with different wall configurations and a non-settling steel rod nut and bolt system.

So specifically I am asking has anyone had any experience whatsoever with doing saddle notches, chinking and multiple wall configurations to allow for wings on the house off of the great room and other designs. I understand that most everyone here uses one single style but as there is some overlap with the chinking and the non-settling system I see the only difference being the saddle notching at the end. So has anyone had any experience with this style of building which precisioncraft, sierra log homes and others do and which it seems a diy home builder could do possibly - but I'm trying to figure out if they have done it. Also, anyone seen this husseal non-settling system steel rod system?

[ivanshayka]

It is very easy to do with multiple wall configuration with butt and pass. Yes, here we do butt and pass and most do square box 2 story due to ease of building, economical, heat/cool, etc. There are few issues you want to consider with notched corners and non-settling log home; 1) hard to notch corners (being time consuming), 2) once logs shrink the gaps of notched corners will open up yielding to air/water infiltration (water is quite dangerous over long-term exposure = rot).

[dazedandconfused]

There are plenty of non square homes on the student section, here is a few, keep in mind this site is for people who want to do mostly the work themselves and haven't done before,so b+p would be the only method that I could do somewhat effectively, without years of notching exp. My advice would be to grab 2 small trees and try this notch corner straight cut (1 minute) then try yours, if it takes you an hour or so then times that by 100, thats 100 hours just for corners, you will find online that some professionals do it much quicker but they have that exp. I was referring to. I took 3 weeks off of work to construct my logs on the wall, girders, rpsl, and ridge and I have no prior building exp. In my opinion a 1st timer could never do that with your type of corner in that type of time, congrats on getting to us and we will let Ronnie Wiley chime in soon cause he has done all types of corners.

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/student-log-home/a-really-cool-log-home

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/student-log-home/mark-and-lisa-sherrodd

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/student-log-home/chaplains-castle

http://www.loghomebuilders.org/student-log-home/wallace-falls

[lilbluehonda]

If you've noticed the whole idea of this building system is something that's EZ that most people could do and could afford,not "lets see how complicated we can make it" just like the chinking sure you can make nice clean lines with synthetic chinking at 20 times the price. Complicated is not what were're about something that's actually doable in a reasonable amount of time is

[loghousenut]

Michael,

I once built a notched 20x24 cabin and I have also played around a bit with the LHBA method. Notches are cool and they are almost fun to do but I don't think I'll ever do them again.

I have never tried to hybridize a notched log building by pinning it to prevent settling but I can think of a reason or two why I wouldn't.

1... The corners of a LHBA building are tremendously strong. There is rebar running in several directions pinning several logs together at each corner. Every log is full sized at every corner as there is nothing cut away by notching. There is a lot of meat in that corner to bind to all that rebar. When the telehandler hits an overdangle on a LHBA building, at full throttle, the overdangle does NOT break off. Trust the voice of experience speaking here.

2... LHBA corners are simple and easy. Of course, if you were planning a hybrid system and planning from the start to have a line of chinking covering gaps in the notches, then those notches could be easier and quicker to make. They wouldn't be a simple and quick as a butted corner but they wouldn't have to be as perfect as a conventional (unpinned) log notched corner.

2-1/2... Any fool and his friends can build a LHBA log home that will be the showcase of the neighborhood. I am proof. If you want to build your own log home with your own hands you are at the right place. You can build as slowly or as quickly as you are able. You can pour a ton of money into it or you can build on a paupers income (almost). You can do it yourself or you can hire a ton of spare hands with buckets of elbow grease.

3... LHBA corners don't rot. I suppose they could, but I've never heard of it happening. Ask around in the industry and see if there are any stories about notched log corners rotting. Even with a huge roof overhang a notched corner is a pocket of exposed wood grain looking for a way to trap moisture and rot. That is not an issue with a LHBA corner. Period.

4... Safety. There are plenty of ways for a fellow, expert or novice, to get hurt or crippled or die building a log home. Once that LHBA wall log is in place, it stays there. You don't have to scribe it and roll it onto the wall to notch it. You don't have to perch up there with a chain saw to make it right. I've done it both ways and I know which method I'd prefer to see my Son doing.

4-1/2... http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Rafters9-2010149.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/loghousenut/media/Rafters9-2010149.jpg.html)



Your link to Precisioncraft included a photogallery of homes that most of us here on this forum could NOT afford. There are several LHBA homes out there that have been built with that kind of budget and grandeur. They are amazing to me in the same way that a privately owned Learjet or mega yacht are amazing. I'll never own one.

I am assuming that you can't afford that kind of a log home and that you want to build your own normal sized home with your own normal sized hands and wallet. That can be done using the LHBA method. You go to class. You converse on the LHBA forum with folks who are in the same boat as you are. You make connections and you use the LHBA network to do things that you probably couldn't have done on your own. You build your home. You do it without a mortgage if that's your desire.

It can happen in almost any county, or country and it can be legal, with the blessing of the local building inspector. The LHBA plans and LHBA connections to licensed engineers can be a tremendous head start.

You could hybridize it with notches and it can be as large and complicated as you want it to be. It will be your home.

If you are my age and building on my budget it will look something like this on the inside when you are halfway finished.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t55/loghousenut/Floor8-2011022.jpg (http://s157.photobucket.com/user/loghousenut/media/Floor8-2011022.jpg.html)



PS... Skip Ellsworth once said that you should build the smallest house that you can afford. I think he was on to something there.

[thoner7]

<----- Ridgepole Envy

[rocklock]

1) has anyone seen this patented houseal non-settling system? http://www.precisioncraft.com/THS/Product/HandcraftedLog.html Would be it be something you can DIY?

2) If you didn't want to do butt and pass but wanted to do the coped corners would this be something you could learn in a few months or would it take years?

3) With the butt and pass sytem it seems the way to build is with one square or rectangular shape whereas other handcrafted homes have a myriad of shapes which allows for greater flexibility with lot sizes and for building a larger home with wings off of the great room. I am interested in building a home that has a design which has a 27 x 27 wing on the left side, a 35 by 35 center and a 27 by 27 wing on the ride side. Can you do this with the butt and pass system or would it be easier with a coped, chinked, rebared style. I must admit that the handcrafted chinked coped corners look aesthetically better than the butt and pass chinked corners whereas the butt and pass is most definitely much easier to do and to get a shell up quickly.

I have discussed non-setteling systems with the engineer that owns the company. My thoughts are -
1. Its very expensive.
2. It works best when there is one story, and lots of square feet... big windows... prow corners or non even corners (like 5 corners) ... with lots of vertical logs.
3. Heating these monsters is a costly problem.
4. Planning must be complete before you start... You just can't change on the fly...
5. Almost all have what I call silly logs. Logs that have been processed to have groves or milled to produce the same even diameter...

Look at my log home...
I stacked all logs in 12 1/2 days... My wife chose where the front door was going to be a year or more after the logs were stacked.
I had a rule, buy the windows then cut the hole. Almost all of the windows were from the local lumber yard's bone yard... Most were less than 50 bucks. My front door was from Craig's List and was a very expensive door some one ordered but didn't want. The side lights were single pane leaded glass that I had enclosed and made thermally efficient.

I could go on and on...

This is the KEY FACT. If you are creative, willing to work hard, don''t like to pay a banker to use their money, don't have a lot of skill or patience to learn the skill to cut a joint, then a strongly pinned butt and pass log home CAN work for you....

If not... try something else.