Log Home Footprint Advice Butt & Pass

[DanBlue]

*Disclaimer* My post below includes words such as "easy" "simple" and "leisurely" please understand that I am not delusional, and I expect this researching/buying/building butt & pass process to be one of the most difficult and epic endeavors I will ever be involved with....so please take these terms in to consideration within the context of this process I'm wishing to start...Thank you in advance!

New to this forum and very excited about the possibilities. Basic question for you all of you so I can start planning on building my log shell myself. Where and when I end up purchasing my logs will be determined later after I get some qualified feedback from you kind folks.

Question: What square foot log "box" is the most practical and easiest to build..taking into consideration ease of "building out" the interior stuff..i.e.kitchen, bathrooms, and the plumbing...once the shell is done? We are thinking of a 28' x 45' rectangle footprint, then build a loft inside using about 1/2 (or 630 sq. ft.) for the loft area. Perhaps 2 bedrooms and full bathroom downstairs, and then an open loft, with perhaps an additional bedroom and bathroom upstairs.

Is there a simple "schematic" footprint I can use as a reference that makes all the interior walls/rooms, plumbing and electric "easy" once the "box" is built and the roof, windows, etc are in place?

What diameter logs would be the most cost effective without compromising structural soundness? 8" logs look as cool as any I've seen....

Ideally we want to build the most practical "box" that is eventually very easy to "build out" on the inside...Our goal is to have the "box" structure done , then take our time with the interior buildout...In other words, we plan on having a secure, water tight "shell" in place, so we then have the time to save money, and build out the interior at a more leisurely pace..

Perhaps there is a reason to plan on a footprint that is 25'x 35' for some reason..I don't know...but I know there must be a "magic" structural footprint that offers an easy, practical build from beginning to end....

Thank you all for your consideration!

[Plumb Level]

Hello Dan - welcome. Where are you located?

You will notice that most of the pictures on this website tend to be of square boxes, not rectangles, but there are several elaborate builds (IMO). Most people build square because:

1. you get the most square feet per lineal feet of logs
2. all of your logs are the same length, except for a few specialty logs for the roof. This gives you more options when you are picking just the right log to bring things back to a plumb wall or a level wall.
3. having the same length logs helps you deal with log taper. If you think about a 45 foot log and a 28 foot log. That 45 is either going to be a lot bigger than the 28 on the big end; or a lot smaller than the 28 on the small end.....or it is going to have some of each. Either way, in your corners, where the 45 footer meets the 28, you will have some issues with the heights not matching up. It is a log home, and nothing is perfect, but equal taper of all logs sure does help.

Anything is possible, including a couple square boxes adjoing each other.

On log diameter, go bigger! More insulation value, less rows of stacking, less chinking lines, more cool factor.

[DanBlue]

Thank you Plumb Level! This helps a great deal...I live in Bethlehem Pennsylvania, and we are looking to purchase some land within the next year about an hour north of here close to the Poconos. So it's decided..I will go square for certain! Is there a good "standard" footprint (Sq. ft.x sq. ft.) you would recommend for ease of building and eventual finish buildout? We want open floor plan, vaulted ceilings, as much exposed log in the interior as possible, a loft area that looks down onto the main floor area, steps to the 2nd floor/loft area that could also contain a small bedroom and bathroom...

I'm thinking to meet our square foot "minimum desires" perhaps 32'x32' with a loft of 512 sq ft..any thoughts on this?

As well, I will need to familiarize myself with the terms you mentioned. i.e. chinking, plumb wall, level wall, log taper, (I think I understand the taper issue) this is all new to me although I've had a keen interest in log cabins for years..I've started to seriously consider trying to build one and since I've run across The Log Home Builders Association and read about the possibilities, I'm seriously interested in planning this out...I feel confident after reading through the site...and I am a big planner, so I'm confident I could do this.. I need to get to one of the classes but don't know exactly when that will be possible. Thanks again for your kind post and clarification!

[logguy]

Definitely take the class. It will save you thousands of dollars and headaches!

Read everything on this site too. One thing that absolutely drives me nuts is deciding which course of action to take when you've got to break the code on something new. I'm not the sharpest pencil in the cup but I've got enough going on upstairs to make decent decisions--any of which should work fine--but when I built my barn, for example, it took several years because of all of the unproven decisions I had to make. It all worked out but it took me forever to make several of the big decisions. With this method of log home building, we're all on the same page and these decisions can be decided upon much faster. Every step involves proven techniques and there is someone here who has probably done something just like you're thinking--and if it varies from Skip's proven methods, you can learn from others' mistKes before you make them on your own! ;) I suggest you take a class offered in the city of Goldbar, WA, if they're still holding them there, and stay in the lodge build with Skip's techniques. Awesome, breathtaking. It's a 3-story, 10-room lodge, erected in two weeks by a guy and his daughter. It's surrounded by snow capped mountains.

[StressMan79]

Take the class. A 32 ft wall is a good size, divisible by 8 and all. An 8 inch log is tiny. Go at least 10 or 12, tops. You'll pay around 100 bucks each for your wall logs, say 12 logs high for a 14 ft high wall, you'll need 48 + 20% = 57 logs for your walls. Dont forget gerders,caplogs, RPSLs, and rafters/ridgepole... you are looking @ around 8000 bucks for logs...

[rocklock]

I have built a 31 by 31 with a walk out basement. I stacked my logs in 12 1/2 days. 63 logs and its not a record. My home is very comfortable and warm. My logs were 10& 11 with a few 12s in the mix.
Best of luck.

[DanBlue]

Thank you StressMan79...This is exactly the information I'm trying to get! Sorry if I these questions sound stupid, but:

1) What exactly is the benefit of the 32 ft walls being divisible by 8? Does this make my fit and finish interior buildout potentially easier?

2) I assume the 12 logs high for a 14 foot wall is taking into account the tiny gaps between each log that are filled with the insulation correct?

3) what is the 48 + 20% mean? Also, is this equation assuming a 10" log?

4) Are the gerders, (RPSLs what are these) and rafters available at the Home Depots of the world?

5) I'm assuming the ridgepole is that big long beautiful log attached in the middle of the rafters that runs the length of the interior ceiling ..is this true?

6) does the 8k estimate give me logs ready to be installed, or do I need to "peel" them? Any prep work I might need to know about, or is that turn key logs?

7) With all of these items you mention, will I be ready for the roofing?

8) Finally, Does that estimate include the truck delivery? If not, what would that generally cost..I guess assuming a 100 mile delivery distance worst case..+/-

Thanks so much for the qualified information!!

[DanBlue]

Thank you Rocklock..I've run across your posts, and you really do have a handle on this subject, so I do appreciate your input very much.

I'm afraid of trying for a basement..I believe I'll hire someone to clear and "level" my build site properly, (can I do that myself?) and set concrete posts for a crawl space so the house sits above the ground, and I believe this is a cost effective measure..

As well, do you think I'll need to rent a crane of some kind to build my log walls?

Thanks again!

[rckclmbr428]

Every build is different, some people pay a lot for logs, others get them free. Some do everything themselves, others hire out parts. Some use lifting poles to set logs, others use cranes or forklifts. Some take 2+ years to set the walls, i just set a 36x36 house with 16' walls in just over 3 days.

[donjuedo]

4) Are the gerders, (RPSLs what are these) and rafters available at the Home Depots of the world?

5) I'm assuming the ridgepole is that big long beautiful log attached in the middle of the rafters that runs the length of the interior ceiling ..is this true?

6) does the 8k estimate give me logs ready to be installed, or do I need to "peel" them? Any prep work I might need to know about, or is that turn key logs?

7) With all of these items you mention, will I be ready for the roofing?


4) No, Home Depot does not sell these. They are more logs. The girder goes across the house horizontally and supports the second floor. An RPSL is a Ridge Pole Support Log and runs vertically to hold up the ridge pole.

5) True, plus some exterior roof beyond the gables.

6) You, or helpers, need to peel logs.

7) Yes.

Class will help greatly for all of these. :-)

[DanBlue]

So I discovered Vern and Sara Street in Sapulpa Oklahoma that have built a beautiful log cabin and provided a website totally devoted to the build..step by step with pictures.

In a timeline format, they describe step by step exactly what takes place, (with pictures to match) and it certainly is eye opening...All I can say is THANK YOU Vern and Sara for sharing this because now I understand some important things. You guys have a beautiful home, and it really is amazing! Side note-There was never any mention of "building to code" or "permits" so I assume Vern and Sara had the luxury of avoiding any of this annoying permit/inspection stuff for whatever reason..I would not have that luxury.

1) It is clearly unlikely that one person could build one of these log cabins by himself/herself with a few block and tackle pulleys, muscles, hand tools, and some saws (I have no friends or family to help me with this build.)

2) I had started to loosely budget around 30-35kK ALL IN to get the structure water tight with windows and locking doors, (no plumbing, no finished flooring, no electric, just a bare box) but even with free labor, this does not seem to be realistic in any capacity..I was preparing to take as much time as needed to get the deals on the wood, hand tools and materials piece by piece..

3) With the rental or purchase of CLEARLY needed sawmills, 4WD trucks outfitted appropriately, (I currently own a VW Jetta) tractors with front loaders, forklifts, a blaster for corn cob blasting of the wood (this is classic!) all the block and tackle pulleys and ropes (that you clearly need 2 to 3 folks to make lifting/placement of logs work) a well drilling device, and finally one of those hydraulic bucket trucks the phone company technicians use to get to the top of a telephone/electric pole, I have come to the conclusion that:

a) To build this thing appropriately, you need other human beings committed and involved on a CONSISTENT basis. If you have no "friendly" help, you've got to hire out that help and the expense negates this whole process. The reason I want to build a log home is the financial freedom I was hopeful it could provide, but I do not have access to free labor or 70-80K or more cash for the manpower/equipment needed. I can not afford to order truckloads of wood only to see it sit on my land for months and months as I try to save pennies to hire the help and rent/purchase the equipment I need to lift the logs onto rebar...to do this on any type of budget, I've learned that it is a "time sensitive" process...when you find a good deal on something, you've got to grab it..but your other ducks must be in line to make that system work.

b) I do have latitude with my job as I work from home and could devote several hours during the week "on site" but again, to gain any traction, one clearly needs the equipment resources and labor to stay within some type of budget..Isn't a modest budget plan the whole idea of this thing?? Budget is important as that is the biggest factor (live mortgage free!) in this whole process...sure, we could all live off the grid in a beautiful log cabin easily with 200k at our disposal..but then I'm are handcuffed just as I would be with a cookie cutter home...which I hate..we currently live in a rental home built in 1900..we like old authentic stuff...

Nonetheless, perhaps I need to come back down to earth and plan on building a 12'x 12' structure on the land and simply having that as a tiny retreat.

Any input is greatly appreciated! Thanks for your patience and consideration.

[DanBlue]

Hello donjuedo, and thank you for this clarification..I was able to study these items on Vern and Sara's website, so I have an acute understanding of what is what now.

Thanks again!

[StressMan79]

Thank you StressMan79...This is exactly the information I'm trying to get! Sorry if I these questions sound stupid, but:

1) What exactly is the benefit of the 32 ft walls being divisible by 8? Does this make my fit and finish interior buildout potentially easier?

2) I assume the 12 logs high for a 14 foot wall is taking into account the tiny gaps between each log that are filled with the insulation correct?

3) what is the 48 + 20% mean? Also, is this equation assuming a 10" log?

4) Are the gerders, (RPSLs what are these) and rafters available at the Home Depots of the world?

5) I'm assuming the ridgepole is that big long beautiful log attached in the middle of the rafters that runs the length of the interior ceiling ..is this true?

6) does the 8k estimate give me logs ready to be installed, or do I need to "peel" them? Any prep work I might need to know about, or is that turn key logs?

7) With all of these items you mention, will I be ready for the roofing?

8) Finally, Does that estimate include the truck delivery? If not, what would that generally cost..I guess assuming a 100 mile delivery distance worst case..+/-

Thanks so much for the qualified information!!


Concrete forms are often in 8 ft lengths. ICFs are 4 ft


The 14 ft wall is an estimate. I assumed a 14 inch average effective diameter, accounting for taper and gaps. The class will show you how to decide how high you go, taper concerns, etc.

The 20% is to allow for logs that aren't perfect. You can likely use some extras as rpsls. Additionally, the top course has the 2 caplogs, and 2 shorer dbl butt logs, so only 46 wall logs...

[DanBlue]

Thank you for the details rcklmbr428 , but why on earth wouldn't someone simply bite the bullet and hire or bring in some human help and simply rent sophisticated equipment if they could accomplish a 16' wall of 36x36 logs within 3 days? Lets be reasonable and call it a 7k proposition with hiring people for 3 days, and some lifting equipment rentals from Sunbelt for 3 days....I'm IN!!! Unless someone has a fascination or ideological reason for spending 2+ years setting the walls themselves, I don't get it....

[DanBlue]

Thank you stressMan79! I've enjoyed watching your youtube videos..very helpful!

[StressMan79]

Keep in mind Ronnie is a professional. You ever watch a professional roofer/rocker/painter/etc... hella fast. Took me a month to set 48 logs... with 2 helpers and a forklift. Logs were onle 27 ft long.

[rreidnauer]

Unless someone has a fascination or ideological reason for spending 2+ years setting the walls themselves, I don't get it....Lets see.

-Pride of building one's own place
-Control over the build
-Cash limitations
-The challenge
-Bragging rights

[rreidnauer]

2) I had started to loosely budget around 30-35kK ALL IN to get the structure water tight with windows and locking doors, (no plumbing, no finished flooring, no electric, just a bare box) but even with free labor, this does not seem to be realistic in any capacity..I was preparing to take as much time as needed to get the deals on the wood, hand tools and materials piece by piece..It doesn't? This is why you need to take the class!

[BoFuller]

Lets see.

-Pride of building one's own place
-Control over the build
-Cash limitations
-The challenge
-Bragging rights

Good one, Rod.

[DanBlue]

I completely agree with everything you've mentioned Rod, but I guess my fear would be having the resources to finish setting up the logs, but then having to go months and months while I save more money to build the roof section, etc....how long can these logs sit there essentially exposed to the weather without compromising the integrity of the wood?

I have all the confidence in the world in myself from the research I've done to plan and execute the "wall build" within a five day period with a few qualified hired hands and renting a log crane and maybe a construction elevator to make the RPSLs and ridgepole instal easier..I feel confident in meeting a reasonable and doable budget for this task, but I was concerned about leaving the build site in this condition with no roof, etc. for any extended period of time as I do my shopping for the finish materials and save the money needed for such materials..could take me a while to save this money....

Perhaps the wall build would be perfectly fine to leave for a year or so as I planned the buildout thats left for things like the rafters, roofing, floor base,closing gable ends, etc....not to mention the electric, plumbing, plus, plus, plus....although I guess the "final finish" stuff could be phase 3 after I get the cabin "waterproof" with roof and front door that can be locked...

Thanks again for the advice and feedback..I do look forward to taking the class sometime in the (hopefully near) future!

[StressMan79]

Dan, just take the class. They'll tell you all you need to know and more.

[rreidnauer]

I'm helping one member who's logs have been sitting exposed for the last three years due to major personal setbacks. (who BTW, happens to be building near where you're planning to) The logs are holding up fine, even despite getting neglected of some class practices. We just finished up setting the ridgepole, and it will be sitting through another Winter.

As far as accessing needed resources, it's surprising what one can do when pressed to do something necessary.

[dvb]

I would say, "Have a little faith in yourself". With the exception of a couple of weekends here and there, my wife and I built our home ourselves. I placed my 40' ridgepole myself with hand winches. Most of the work I did by myself with a lot of pre-planning and perseverance. Calm down, take the class, spend a couple of years getting organized and git er done! I did it, so can you!

[Mosseyme]

In the class they will explain why you may need to take a couple of years to really get started, saving money, getting those deals on tools, preparing your site ect. You will get so much info and access to the members side that will answer most of your questions. I have seldom had a question that I didn't get multiple answers to from members and staff within hours. I believe there is a class in Nov. The sooner you get to the class the happier you will be and if you wait you will realize how much time you wasted thinking and planning things that all get changed after the class. A member near us has built his home with the block and tackle method and only had his Suburban to pull the lifting lines with. He has a beautiful home for his family and is close to moving in. Also there a few builds going on near you and after the class you might be able to help and learn and gain some confidence of being able to do this. BTW, we are in our 60's and have done 90% of this ourselves even the [not recommended] logging of the logs.

[PeeCee]

I know the oft repeated "take the class" mantra can make this forum seem a bit like a cult, but it IS the soundest advice. The quickest way to get your questions answered and get access to the members' side where everyone is posting questions and giving advice on every stage of the build.

A lot of people want to get their ducks in a row and do what they think is best so they can hit the ground running after class, but after taking the class and bouncing ideas off members, you will probably wish that you had saved all the planning for after you had taken the class.

As for building alone. I did all of my stacking and rafters for my first place alone. It can be done, but it's a lot of extra work. Strapping up a log--running over to the crane to lift it--lowering it almost into place--climbing the wall to get it where I want it--climbing down the wall--lowering the log a little--climbing back up and wrestling the log into place--and back and forth until it is where it needs to be. I've got two people on my current build. The logs are a lot bigger, but it only took a fraction of the time to set them. It's a lot safer working with someone, too. I can't imagine that there are no able-bodied people in your area with a bit of time on their hands that wouldn't want to earn 100-150 dollars a day for a week or two.

That said, there are several members who are building alone and swear by it. Personally, I prefer working with someone, even though one person can easily handle many of the aspects of the build.

Looking forward to seeing on the members' side soon.

[DanBlue]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful messages....I really do appreciate it. In all honesty as much as I've fought the "establishment" or thought I was fighting it, fought conventional thinking, being independent...I've actually been a slave to commercialism, disposable culture, with the expectation of immediate gratification....born in the early 70s, I'm of the generation that is completely out of touch with self reliance....it is holistically a very scary thing on a grand scale...If something were to go terribly wrong in our daily lives, I'm confident most would not be able to cope with it...I'm committed not to be on of those folks...

sorry for the philosophical digression, but it should help answer my previous posts for feeling a need to have everything qualified and figured out for my plan to build now. This commitment to build a cabin will be a great learning tool for me as I try to learn new ways of living and behaving. i.e. getting away from the current ways of life, and developing a new self reliant life.

Thanks for the support and does anyone know when the class after Vegas will be held?

[rocklock]

Dan Blue you will fit right in with your philosophical explanation it seems we have many more than one philosophical explanations a bounding. Build log home, get a years worth of food, learn how to can, grow berries, life will be good. OBTW my oldest son was born in 72 so I may understand.

[DanBlue]

Thanks Rocklock April 1973 here, so I'm sure you understand...it was a perfect environment for "consumer & entertainment needing" kids...baby boomers making money, manufacturing of goods (mostly crap) accelerated, the WalMart folks were just starting figure it out on a grand scale, toy manufactures/retailers became very savvy i.e. the Star Wars franchise as just one example...."brands" became our gospel.....I could go on and on....why would I want a farm or raise chickens? I have everything available anytime I need it from McDonalds or the grocery stores!!!

Interesting fact: The food we buy in grocery stores travels an average of 2000 miles to get to the shelves....that is scary as hell..

[DanS]

Interesting fact: The food we buy in grocery stores travels an average of 2000 miles to get to the shelves....that is scary as hell..

Only if you don't take ownership of the fact that you BUY it.

You've got a choice in the matter. Use your pocketbook to make your opinion heard.

Dan

[DanBlue]

That is right Dan! That is the whole purpose of the fundamental shift of lifestyle I'm planning which includes the cabin.

Be well,

[rocklock]

Interesting fact: The food we buy in grocery stores travels an average of 2000 miles to get to the shelves....that is scary as hell..

Just a quick note... I went food shopping yesterday - in Hawaii. The cost is scary. A can of green olives in Washington was less than a buck - in Hawaii it was almost 4 bucks... In Washington I buy meat from a local meat market - local meat. I buy veg's from a stand that only get stuff he either grows or local guys come buy and sell extra stuff. I buy flour from a mill that has local sources.

I read a book about the adventures of eating stuff within 100 miles. It was scary. But in Washington it was very easy. In Hawaii, its impossible. In Washington I grow my own lettuce, herbs, garlic and much of my own berries.

So IMHO we must all do the best we can, when we can.

Best of luck

[Gomer]

I can grow and create most of what I want to eat but obviously not al.
'pose I can build a logger if I truly want to devote all it takes to it - but that's not gonna happen.
I can hire out a build, any build of any type and likely play GC on it, at least where I am. I'd still feel a lot of pride and get 'er done in a timely manner instead of fretting for a long time and letting the build own me. That's cheaper than a mortgage - but since my health if getting shaky, a lot more expensive in time and mental health
So my decision is likely different than yours Dan and very different from those who totally build their own.
I admire the manner in which each one of us accomplishes what is our ultimate end result - be it a stick-stone or log house.
Tally ho and a buildin' we all go.... cheers

[logguy]

It doesn't? This is why you need to take the class!

I wonder if he had seen your build thread! :)

[Shark]

There is a reason why the most common reply is "take the class" because they teach 99% of what most people are asking about before taking the class.
It's well worth it.

We built our place starting in '07, moved in '09, and getting ready to move. Will be building a second one . It's hard work, but much less hard than paying off a 30 year mortgage on a stick built home that won't last 50 years.

[revid]

got a link to Vern and Sara Street's website? thanks

[2Determined2Quit]

got a link to Vern and Sara Street's website? thanks


http://www.vernstreet.com/loghome.htm

[rocklock]

stores travels an average of 2000 miles to get to the shelves.
Living in Pa you should be able to buy everything you need with in 100 miles or less - if you try...
I have 1 years food in my basement. I was at a store yesterday that was selling the very same kind of stuff for less than what I paid.
Even COSCO has emergency food in containers... Any place that sells bulk food can be used. I have my own flour (and other kinds of stuff) mill but it needs to be rotated and cooking potato soup is a challenge (leeks help).
My wife questioned my sanity when I planted fruit trees before I finished the roof... After eating peaches and plums for the last two years she understands... Wait until my cherry trees are heavily producing...
Everyone in Pa should have 5 apple trees and a ton of blue berries.

[loghousenut]

Rocklock, you missed the "t" in Cosco. Don't let it happen again.

[rreidnauer]

Rocklock, you missed the "t" in Cosco. Don't let it happen again.
Loghousenut, YOU missed the "t" in Costco. What shall thee's punishment consist of?

[Tracyblott]

Loghousenut, YOU missed the "t" in Costco. What shall thee's punishment consist of?
I think he's a feather and gag ball kind of guy.

[loghousenut]

Rocklock is anything but dyslexic... he has no excuse.


Me?... Well use your imagination and be generous to me.

[edkemper]

> Loghousenut, YOU missed the "t" in Costco. What shall thee's punishment consist of?

Muffins?

[edkemper]

PS: Forget the muffins, have Costco get another order of Persimmons.

[Neal]

Hello Dan, its an old post hope full your still on the site. Can you supply me with the Vern and Sara cabin build website. I don't see any link.
Thanks, Neal in Las Vegas NV.

Gtb4uz@aol.com

[panderson03]

as requested, Mr Neal :)

http://www.vernstreet.com/

[DanBlue]

Sorry Neal, I just logged in after being off the grid for a while...Thanks for supplying the link panderson03! Hope to chat with you all soon!

Danny

[etd66ss]

I know the oft repeated "take the class" mantra can make this forum seem a bit like a cult

This is definitely the feeling I am getting. I'm still on the fence, but reading as much here as I can. I'm getting tidbits of information here and there while reading all these threads.

[John W]

etd66ss, you're just getting started. Take some time to review the posts. Engage in some conversations and threads with the long time members. Find a member house near you that you can go look at!! That's what sold us on the class. I lurked for a long time before I went, and the class filled in all the fine, nitty-gritty details you can't get from the open forum. You'll be able to get the general concepts, but not the actual how-to until you go. Just reading the open forum, you might get to about 75% that you think you can do it yourself, after class, you'll be at 100%.

[loghousenut]

CULT...

noun \ˈkəlt\

Simple Definition of cult
1: a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous

2: a situation in which people admire and care about something or someone very much or too much

3: a small group of very devoted supporters or fans




There are many professional log home/kit home builders who would put us in that 1st definition. Most folks would put us in that 3rd definition. Probably 95% of us who are LHBA members would agree totally with definition #2.

I think this is a healthy addiction. I have three or four regrets in my life and this LHBA thing is not one of them. I think you oughta take the class... There will be free Koolaid. Then stop by my place and we'll burn a steak or two and talk about your log home.



You're gonna love it.

[rocklock]

This is definitely the feeling I am getting. I'm still on the fence, but reading as much here as I can.

Remember there is a money back guarantee that has not been used for good reason. I hope you have looked at the student built homes...

Look at mine - not in the student built cause I not finished yet. Look at Pam's place... You will note that each is different even though we have started out with the same class, and many with the same plans... You will notice that mine has 22 glass filled doors, windows and skylights. Mine is not a dark cabin, but a light infused home with lots of color, art and stained glass.

If you want to build with logs, this is the way to go. Good luck

[etd66ss]

Remember there is a money back guarantee that has not been used for good reason. I hope you have looked at the student built homes...

Look at mine - not in the student built cause I not finished yet. Look at Pam's place... You will note that each is different even though we have started out with the same class, and many with the same plans... You will notice that mine has 22 glass filled doors, windows and skylights. Mine is not a dark cabin, but a light infused home with lots of color, art and stained glass.

If you want to build with logs, this is the way to go. Good luck

I guess I apologize for hijacking this thread, but yes, most definitely I have looked at every single student home. Lot of nice work!

[rreidnauer]

It's OK to hijack threads. Heck, Loghousenut will probably make you a knight or something.

[MPeterson1020]

I'm still on the fence, but reading as much here as I can. I'm getting tidbits of information here and there while reading all these threads.

Keep on reading! Then take the class and read some more! It is SOOOO worth it. I wish I would have taken the class sooner! But as LHN would say, my timing is just right..... :) I remind myself of that often when I feel I should be more along. I don't regret taking this class at all and reading all the posts on the members side makes me even more sure this is the way to go. Before class I had read at least 75% of the posts on the public side and have since been trying to read all the ones on the member side.. So much information, friendship and support. Even when I start to freak out, they can calm me down... :)

[BoFuller]

It's OK to hijack threads. Heck, Loghousenut will probably make you a knight or something.

Knighthood? I hijacked a thread once, and LHN chastised me for a month.

[loghousenut]

Knighthood? I hijacked a thread once, and LHN chastised me for a month.

Bo, quit trying to change the subject!

[John W]

Science is a subject, let's talk about that!