Home Heating methods

[Pioneer_Living4us]

Hi All,

So the property we will most likely be building on will be in NW Montana...heavily forested. I was wondering if any one had any comments or opinions on something I've been researching a bit lately.. http://www.greenwoodusa.com/greenwood-series-wood-furnace.php
Please let me know your thoughts. I would very much like to use baseboard heat but I'm concerned with the wood (Log home)+ steam= mold, scenario.

Thanks!

[oldtrapper]

Check this out. http://www.mha-net.org/ ;-{>8

[rreidnauer]

Using a boiler in the log home won't contribute to steam/mold/humidity. The systems are closed-looped. However, I would have concerns with Greenwood's claims somewhat. The flue based heat exchanger sounds like a potential problem. Dropping exhaust temperatures from 1700° to 300° poses two concerns. To drop to 300° means the exchanger must be operating below even that. (which would make sense since the water shouldn't be above boiling despite being called a boiler) And in being so, it invites creosote formations upon the exchanger and flue beyond the exchanger. Now, perhaps burning the firebox at 1700+° prevents there being any unburnt product left to go up and deposit upon the exchanger and flue, once up to temperature. The second worry is condensation. The vast temperature drop will surely cause it in the exhaust system, and I don't know what materials are used to construct the exchanger and flue. Hopefully it's all stainless, and hopefully there is some provision for a condensate drain. Another worry is how fast it will go through wood. Great to run it like a blast furnace to get the water heated, but then what? They can't be continuing to run at that temp, and if they are, (by stopping flow through the exchanger to prevent water overheating) then it's terribly fuel inefficient.

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[LogHomeFeverDan]

Personally I MUCH prefer OldTrapper's suggestion of the masonry heater. Not only do I feel it's more efficient, it just "fits" better in a log home.

[Timberwolf]

I have a thread somewhere with my experiences covering 5 Canadian winters with one of those things. I have an unlimited supply of free wood (if there is such a thing) and wouldn't buy another one. EVER. The new house gets a Masonry Heater (Lakeshore design) and geothermal backup (or primary, if talking to my ins co. ;) ) Next one will be Masonry Heater, with propane backup.

Most claim "combustion efficiency" in the high 90's. Big deal, so does a campfire. Overall efficiency is more like 50...maybe.

[Pioneer_Living4us]

Thank you all for your replies. Lots to research and think about.

[Timberwolf]

Worth posting again.

Www.woodheat.org

[Pioneer_Living4us]

Thanks Timberwolf. I'll check it out.

[amos]

Hey Timberwolf - i did up my reading on the masonry heaters and i saw a lot of stuff about efficiency / high BTU's retained and that the heat is slowly released so no worry regarding kids running around one of these things and getting burnt. any of this true? do you recommend a masonry heater over a wood stove?

[Timberwolf]

They are 2 different animals to be sure. Both have their pros and cons. All of what you state is true. Up front costs are much higher on the MH, and you definitely have to plan it into your build, versus putting a wood stove in the corner. That said, I wouldn't want anything but a MH. Plus, nothing looks better (imho) than a big ole fireplace in a log home, and the MH gives you that, with the crazy efficiency. There's a bunch on the members side with the Lake Shore in their homes.

[oldtrapper]

That remind me of one more plus about a MH. Because the fire is burned fast and hot there is almost no creosote build-up. ;-{>8

[Mrs. Len]

Check this out. http://www.mha-net.org/ ;-{>8

Thanks for that post. I'll be showing this to Len tomorrow. He was planning on building a Rumford Fireplace, but I like this much better!

[oldtrapper]

You're welcome. Check this out. I took this class and can recommend it. This is a very doable DIY project, but it requires doing your homework.

http://www.northhouse.org/courses/courses/course.cfm/cid/231

Check out this young fella who did one on his own.

http://jaredbarnhart.blogspot.com/search/label/masonry%20heater

[Mrs. Len]

You're welcome. Check this out. I took this class and can recommend it. This is a very doable DIY project, but it requires doing your homework.

http://www.northhouse.org/courses/courses/course.cfm/cid/231

Check out this young fella who did one on his own.

http://jaredbarnhart.blogspot.com/search/label/masonry%20heater

Great, thanks! Len and I will get any literature we can and do our research before we undertake building one. In addition, I will seek out any in my community who have done it.

[thoner7]

So here is a question that will likely get lots of debate - what is the best way to heat a log home with wood??

Same question with any system.

[rreidnauer]

Its a trick question folks! Look out.

What do you consider "best"? Most cost effective? Most energy efficient? Most convenient?

[Mrs. Len]

Probably a Masonry Heater or Rocket Mass Stove.

[oldtrapper]

The MH pollutes the least.

[Mrs. Len]

The MH pollutes the least.

Hurray, I WANT ONE!

[thoner7]

Whats the best way to heat a whole house with wood. Relatively efficiently.

I like the concept of outdoor wood boilers but am not sold on them. I have heard gassification boilers are better?

[rreidnauer]

Highest efficiency then. Catalytic woodstove. Flue temperatures below 200F, most complete combustion, nearly all heat is extracted into the home.

[StressMan79]

Don't forget to make sure you have unobstructed heat flow.

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[edkemper]

I'm just sort of entertained that my area makes the clean air standard such an issue with wood stoves. Yet it is more of a problem with the fires we have all over the state when they are making it subject for discussion. It seems our clean air standard is more impacted by the lack of forest thinning and non-maintenance.

Catalytic wood stoves are very efficient but they don't seem to last like the old fashion types. The expense of buying and replacing them seems an issue.

[dazedandconfused]

Been burning my blaze king princess model, I load it once a day my burn time is real long, like 20 + hours, nothing like a warm fire

[Shark]

We had a pellet stove in our last place, very nice, auto-lite & runs off thermostat. Not as cheap as a wood stove, but much easier to use (bonus for my wife!)

[thoner7]

Been burning my blaze king princess model, I load it once a day my burn time is real long, like 20 + hours, nothing like a warm fire

That is impressive. Does the stove run on a thermostat?

How big is your place again?

[WNYcabinplannin]

I love my Olympic Avalon. Has a rewash that curves the flames towards the glass. Highest rated EPA rating. I get 12-14 hours if I pack it and choke it down a bit.
Only shows smoke from the pipe at start up or if I put a wet log in.

[jasonfromutah]

I have a wood stove and a 40,000 BTU natural gas stove on the main level.

So far, I need only to burn a few logs a day and the temps can rise to 80 degrees and still be 70 degrees the next day. However, we have only been in the teens so far.

Once it gets really cold, I will have my natural gas stove on a thermostat. I realize that wood stoves are not that efficient. However, I could not imagine having a log home and not having a wood stove! I love mine!

[dazedandconfused]

thoner checkout blaze king products, the king size states 40hr burn, the princess 30hr, They are independently rated the most efficient wood stove on the planet, I know I know what is stated is not real life, but if I use oak I get 20 hours, poplar 15hrs, I fill once a day thats it, we have a 30x30 with half loft, and I have the princess model. It is in the corner of my living room that is open to the loft. Wnycabin is right the good ones barely have much smoke cause your heat is more inside then leaving the house, I like the idea of a masonry but didn't have the room for the space needed. Downside to the blaze king, it doesn't have much style they look pretty basic to me, and because of the high burn time you don't see much of a flame, sometimes I have to check if it went out, it doesn't just real consistent burns.

[rreidnauer]

A Blaze King, king size is what I'm planning to install, but haven't chosen which of three styles (and costs) With an advertised 40 hour burn time, if I can just get a full 24 hours, I'm going to be a very happy person. Beyond that is just icing on the cake.

[thoner7]

Does the heat get into the bedrooms well?

[panderson03]

we're planning on Blaze King too. haven't decide on Princess or King yet though. that will be our primary source of heat (besides the in floor radient in the basement).

[thoner7]

we're planning on Blaze King too. haven't decide on Princess or King yet though. that will be our primary source of heat (besides the in floor radient in the basement).

How are you planning to heat the water for that? I was hoping to do the same and still heat primarily with wood

[panderson03]

we'll have a boiler to heat the liquid in the pex tubes:)

[rreidnauer]

Since I'm required to install an automatic, 90%+ efficient heating system, I am planning on closed-loop, glycol, hot water baseboard and a propane condensing boiler. Could also be used for domestic hot water, but hope that the vast majority of it will come from my evacuated tube, solar, hot water collectors.

[thoner7]

Those boilers are somewhat expensive. I was considering using a high-end hot water tank for DHW and radiant. But I'd still like to get the hot water heated with wood somehow.

[rreidnauer]

Somewhat expensive? No somewhat's about it. They are pricey critters.

I think you'd almost have to go with a wood burning boiler to make enough hot water to heat a home with. A woodstove with a hot water loop, I doubt would be able to draw enough BTUs from.

I do recall seeing a neat indoor wood burning boiler that also had an oil burner on it as well. I think some of the outdoor units have that as well. Nice for those days away on vacation or whatever. I wonder if there is a combo wood/gas boiler available too.

[edkemper]

When it comes to discussions on efficient water heaters, I like to look into Ed Begly Jr.s site: http://www.hotwater.com/ed-begley-jr/

[dazedandconfused]

Ok my bedrooms are situated in the back of the home, they do get warm but not to the same degree as the front, however my wife likes a cooler bedroom so win win, I would say the bedrooms get to 68/69 where the front rooms I wake up the next morning at 75 or better, I don't even turn on my propane thermostat at all, it was required for permit. Can't use wood for primary heat, unbelievable.

[smithme2]

I heat with wood using an old (non gasifier) boiler tied to a propane boiler, 300 gallon heat storage tank, radiant floor pex and fins, boilermate Dhw and I like it. But, I have two neighbors who just installed new systems. One put in gasifier outdoor wood boiler. The other did geothermal. The equipment costs were about equal. The geothermal guy borrowed a big excavator to lay the water lines in 8 foot trenches. That is often the reason people are reluctant to do geothermal because it can be pricey.

I haven't done detailed calculations but I bet the annual costs of gas, chains, splitter etc are half of what the electricity would be to run the geothermal heat pump. Wood is probably cheaper on a cash basis but once you factor in time and energy, I'm sure geothermal is the winner. I'd be curious to know what folks electric bills are for a geothermal system. The sales guy told my neighbor it was about $100 per month. We live in upstate ny.

[Shark]

Regarding fancy water heaters etc....:

If you live in an area with an REMC (member owned electric co-op) you might be able to get a free water heater (we did last time, and possibly will again), budget friendly ;)

[panderson03]

interesting Shark. we have a REMC where we're building. will look into the free water heater thing. thanks for the tip