Out vs Up

[Trader Jay]

Hello All. I am new to the forums. After reading the multitude of posts, I am convinced I can do this. I am in the planning phase right now. I cannot make the class in March as I will be out of the country. But I will not break ground for at least another 3 years anyway. I figured I can do a lot of my planning and budgeting while I wait for the next class to roll around.

My question:
My wife and I like the open feel of a spread-out log home and we like to build a 1-floor log home that is around 2k SF. There will be a loft above the kitchen. However, i have read that it is better (or easier?) to go up (i.e. 2 floors) then go out. Can someone explain why it is recommended to go up instead of out? My present floor plan has 8 outer walls. Has anyone tried this method with at least this many walls?

We hope to buy land in the north east with timber on it and we plan to do the construction ourselves (with the exception of the roof) including the foundation. Does the class teach about doing a foundation?

Thanks for any inputs you may have.

TJ

[loghousenut]

Welcome Jay...

Our "guru",Skip Ellsworth, used to say "A log home is a free house with a very expensive floor and roof." The taller it is, the cheaper each of those square feet are gonna be. This will all make so much sense in class. Your world and the way you look at yoir future home will change for the better.

One more thing... You oughta go as a couple.


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[eduncan911]

I completely agree with LHN. We were designing our "8" wall home as well, with sketches on napkins and all... Until I took the class, that is.

I grew up with large 1 story homes in the suburbs in the south - all my parents had mortgages on. When I moved to NY and saw them "build up" I couldn't stand it. I really liked the openness and spaciousness of a large foundation. Then you learn pretty much what LHN eludes you: that foundation and roof gets expensive fast, really fast, the more you build out. Two of the key points of the class is how to source and build an entire home without a mortgage.

[blane]

Simple is the key word. Building up makes your foundation much easier and less expensive as LHN stated. If you build up, you build a square box out of one continuous log. Otherwise it is difficult to piece it all together and becomes more complicated. However, I have seen some beautiful homes that have some complicated layouts. So if you are sold on a one story 2,000 square foot home it can be done but it is more complicated and will cost you a lot more money. My roof is the most expensive part of my house and if I did 2300 square feet the way you want to do it it would have been twice as expensive.
Yes the class will teach you how to do it all with the exception of electrical, plumbing and framing interior walls but there are other sources that can help you with those things. We have done everything in our home ourselves and learned how to do it from class and this forum.

[Trader Jay]

Thanks guys. This makes sense. I can't wait to take the class.

TJ

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Welcome aboard Trader Jay. Like you I've had many questions and still do. Taking the class in March. I am starting to grasp the concept and some of the reasoning behind "up not out". It does make sense. Good to see another DIYer here to chew the fat so to speak.

[StressMan79]

Even if all sides cost the same, a cube would give the most volume for a given side area (cost). A short home has less volume and more surface area. Thus it costs more to heat.

[Matt F.]

Howdy, Trader Jay! It might be useful to take a look at this thread - http://community.loghomebuilders.org/showthread.php?9932-Morphing

When I first found LHBA, this morph was already underway. But taking the class really helped bring my attention more in-line with the original idea. The class teaches the steps necessary to build a very specific type of home. The steps used are fantastic, and can result in a solid, nice (warm, not leaky/drafty, and functional - not vast, grand, and "high end"), inexpensive home. I believe that was the original intent.

As you take steps away from the specific method shown in class, things tend to get more complicated and expenses rise. With that said, the instructors did a great job of answering questions that meandered away from the "Skip-style" home.

More so than just teach you how to build a home, the class/LHBA is really more about your mindset. Let's be honest, "average" Americans are lame. What they want is lame, and why they want it is also lame. LHBA is about breaking away from the mold that has created "everyone else." You have the freedom to be yourself, do your own thing, and live your own life. You can use the lessons taught in class to build a great log home, in just about any size or shape you are capable of doing. When you're finished, it just might not be a "Skip-style" home. And that's OK! There are reasons for doing everything. It's your home, build it for your reasons.

There are some really good economic (time and money) reasons for building up rather than out. And for building small, rather than big. It all comes down to priorities, abilities, and resources. But at the end, if you're happy and in a home you love, you win!

-Matt

[rocklock]

Just a word about up...
It sucks when you need to climb 17 stairs to go to bed. Then you forgot to take your pills so that makes another 34 steps. Then you phone is recharging in the kitchen... another 34 steps... It makes my knee hurt just to think about it.

The reality about building a square log home with a ridge pole is you can not avoid having a second floor. If you build a 40 by 40 and the roof is a 6:12 (fairly common epically if you have snow) then your ridge pole will be 10 to 15 feet above your first floor ceiling, which is pretty much a second floor...

I am actually looking into a lift for my stairs... I am almost 69... jeeze... 21 years to go...

[Timber]

1 floor is good / basement smart & very cheap / 2nd floor if and in case u need it / even better.
best thing to do is play with plans and see what you need versus what you want/compromise and
then commit

[BoFuller]

We are doing the 30X30 two story. Currently we plan on making half the upstairs a master bedroom and the bedroom downstairs will be guest room. When it gets too hard to manage the stairs, then we will switch, but for now I'm counting on the stairs keeping me young. :)

[loghousenut]

We are doing the 30X30 two story. Currently we plan on making half the upstairs a master bedroom and the bedroom downstairs will be guest room. When it gets too hard to manage the stairs, then we will switch, but for now I'm counting on the stairs keeping me young. :)

I can understand stairs keeping you young... Don'tcha think you shoulda oughta started a long time ago.






Hhhaha... Happy New Year Bro Bo and Merry.

[LogHomeFeverDan]

lol LHN. Yeah we're planning on the master down. Girls/guest bedrooms up. Let them run the stairs.

[blane]

Running up and down ladders,stairs and scaffolding is not making my knees feel any younger:)

[LogHomeFeverDan]

Running up and down ladders,stairs and scaffolding is not making my knees feel any younger:)

Yeah but the adrenaline of the "build" Blane will make your knees feel younger! It's only when completed and you long to "enjoy" the fruits of your build labor, the knees started protesting. (-;

[edkemper]

I plan on using my build as rehabilitation for my knee replacements.

[LogHomeFeverDan]

I plan on using my build as rehabilitation for my knee replacements.

LOL I'm praying our build doesn't lead to me getting knee replacements! (-;

[LowKey]

Just a word about up...
It sucks when you need to climb 17 stairs to go to bed. Then you forgot to take your pills so that makes another 34 steps. Then you phone is recharging in the kitchen... another 34 steps... It makes my knee hurt just to think about it.
<snip>

I am actually looking into a lift for my stairs... I am almost 69... jeeze... 21 years to go...


This is the only reason I've ever even considered a single story structure...the dreaded stairs vs aging issue.
I have a deep seated preference for bedrooms being on the second story or higher, ground floor bedrooms just don't "feel" right to me.

My plan is to put in a very large DIY "dumbwaiter", one with a platform about 4ftx8ft with a 30 inch high rail.
I love having land where there are no building codes!

[Timberwolf]

LOL I'm praying our build doesn't lead to me getting knee replacements! (-;

I would NEVER build another 2 story. Ever.

IIRC, Skip had a way of gravitating people to helping him build. If you can do that, built 3 stories. I haven't been that successful. If there is ever an next time, i'm staying on the ground.

[rocklock]

A small update... I am now 71. I have built a cube 31by 31 by 34. I broke my leg 4 months ago. All of my stairs have 2 hand rails which I can now go up and down with out the use of a crutch or cane. I have noted that the more room that has become available to the women in my life the more Cra$ that gets accumulated. Hence,in my opinion its not the height or square footage but the planning and discipline that homes and family's have.

Bottom line, a basement is essentially free space (or at least very inexpensive, besides where are your plumbing and utilities going to reside). A second floor bedroom is incredible because its warm up there even when its cold and rainy outside. Skylights for the top floor provides so much light they brighten the entire home...

Building as small as you can afford makes sense as long as you don't spell it cents.

[BoFuller]

I have experienced some downsides to building two full floors, but the positives far outweigh them.

[PresterJohn]

Must.... take..... class....