Clueless Newbie

[JJ83]

Hi Everyone!

First post here so I hope I'm in the right area. :o

I'm really interested in taking the LHBA class in November, but I wanted to see if I could get some clarification on some things before taking the plunge:

1)Is it really possible to build a nice log home (like some of the featured student homes) with tools that can all fit in a car trunk (minus the ladder)?

2)Can almost anybody really do this? I'm not physically incapable but it just amazes me to think logs of those sizes can be moved and placed without heavy machinery!

3)Is it still possible/realistic in today's economy to make the dream come true on a modest budget? My wife and I were looking at purchasing a home and based on what I've seen on the site it seems like with the right amount of know-how, elbow grease and determination you can't beat building your own log cabin! Plus the thought of avoiding a 30-year sentence is something that's always caught my attention! :D Also I was wondering if anybody had recently purchased cheap logs (like Chris H. cheap, who got them for $.50/tree according to the FAQ) and what the going rate was. I know I'll have to wait until after the class to find the source, but I was just wondering if prices were even close to that these days.

4)Is there really still such a thing as "dirt cheap" land anymore? I'm in (rural) NY and land has quite a price range in these parts.

I've got plenty of other questions but I guess this is as good enough a place to stop as any - thank you to everyone in advance for your help and support! I've seen a lot of helpful people on this side of forum, I can only imagine what the member side is like! :D

[panderson03]

welcome jj83:) we love newbies!
1) yup:) there are many of us currently building!!
2) YES it is possible! many do it. folks are currently building using the 'only with tools you can fit in your trunk' process. not us though. we used a telehandler !
3)Yup :) my husband and I are doing it right now:) we're paying as we go. do 95% of the work ourselves. when we're through, we won't have a mortgage; we'll own it free and clear.
4) gotta look really hard to find the right property at the right price. its not easy, but there are deals out there

[JJ83]

Thanks panderson03! I'm glad to hear there's still hope. I wondered if many of the things I've seen on the site were still applicable today - thanks for clarifying. I know I'll have to do my homework to get the right deals on land, materials, etc. but I'm looking forward to the journey!

How far along with the build are you and your husband? Are you staying on-site during the build or taking weekend trips? What's been your biggest hurdle? Sorry for all the questions I'm just getting psyched to think I could really make this happen! :D

[panderson03]

:) I remember when I was in that place too (REALLY interested and SO EAGER for any info I could get ! now we've got the Members Side for all the info we could ever need.)!
we're building 2 structures; a BnP 36x36 garage and a BnP 35x35 cabin. we started our log home journey by taking the class in May 2009. we started site clearing March of 2010 for both structures. did excavation and cement work for both structures at the same time and then focused most of our attention on getting the garage done. got a roof on that one last year and hope to have it completed by snow fall this year. we're working on loft floor now so we can get the garage doors in :) did spend a month putting up the logs on the cabin this year. will try and get that one weathered in next year. we'll see if we can do it :)

[rckclmbr428]

You can have your home only 2 of 3 ways. Good, fast, or cheap. Most people here go for good and cheap.

[fishlkmich]

(4) I found 11.5 acres for $20,000 where I want to live. It has all of the material that I will need (other than concrete, rebar, wire, plumbing, septic, well . . .) growing on it. Now I just have a couple of acres to clear. How are you with a chainsaw?

(3) I hauled out three truckloads of wood for the OWB this weekend and have another truckload on the ground. Took about 12 hours. Good thing that it was in the woodlot next door and not on my land, three hours away! With a full time job, your build site needs to be close to home/work. All of my logs/lumber came with the land. Will need to buy a portable mill, or hire a sawyer. The distance will probably require me to hire out my dirt work, too.

(2) I think that I can and if I don't try I'll never know.

(1) You would need a REALLY big trunk, or make a bunch of trips. But, you COULD do it.

[donjuedo]

OWB

Overwater Bungalow? Oracle Warehouse Builder?

;-)


Peter

[jasonfromutah]

Yes you can.

However, start preparing yourself for a lot of hard work and dedication. Be sure that your wife is on board with the idea and have her take the class with you. There are no quick shortcuts as far as I am concerned. What there is, is good instruction on a sound building building principle that anyone can achieve. There is alos excellent instruction on how to plan and prepare for the build.

It was worth it to me (to build). But, as I said its a lot of hard work. You can do it; make it happen....

[blane]

Feel free to cruise through our blog to see how we built our place with the tools that will fit into the trunk of a car. "Not all at one time though". I would look for land with usable timber on site to save money on logs that you can use for pasture later on. And if you can, try to live on site if possible. Shop around for the best deals even if it means you call 20 different suppliers for materials, and salvage surplus stores are your friend. You will save most of your money with your own sweat though. So, yes almost anyone can do this who is not afraid of hard work.

A shot of our latest progress.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vOoAltHjLPA/UE52DMlO0FI/AAAAAAAACvg/ZXy11toeQBE/s1600/IMG_2733.JPG

[Tokn]

Holy Big-Un blane - that is one massive home!
I too am looking and thinking - have lots of red pine on parcel I bought near Effie, in northern MN. The sizes are all over the map - from 10"-28" so I should be could maybe if I elect to harvest them. Much smaller size cabin is my vision - 28 x 28 or similar with a half loft. I have no way of bringing in a cement truck so it will be bags of sakrete when the day comes , hopefully in summer of next year. Can something this size be supported by just concrete piers?
I really want to have my walls as low as reasonably done to look nice and support a loft - thinking 7-8 logs max in height, mainly because it me and myself doing the build. No way to get big equipment in to help out - big rock outcropping surround build area. There are numerour 100 year old cabins around me that were built w/o equipment so I sure as heck can too.

Are the classes ever during the week? I work weekends - just changed careers and thats what it is I guess until I call it a day.

[Tokn]

typos abound above - how does one edit them? I can see no provision to do so

[fishlkmich]

Overwater Bungalow? Oracle Warehouse Builder?

;-)


Peter

My Over Worked Body has an Outdoor Wood Burner.:)

I highly recommend one if you want to pay for exercize and can't stand a gym. I get my exercize in the woods and fresh air. The wood heats my water and I get forced air heat, instead of the hot spot that I had with the indoor model. The bugs, ash, bark, dirt . . . stay outside. The investment forces you to work for the wood to recover your cost. I have virtually free heat after four seasons of burning. I get a small propane tank filled every two years to do my cooking, heat water in the summer and run my dryer.

[blane]

I don't think they ever do weekday classes but you can always take a vacation. My place is 35x35 2 stories on piers so what you have in mind would work fine. We used no heavy equipment after the grading on this build. But we did have the foundation piers pumped in from a cement truck. It only took about an hour to pump in all my piers.
Holy Big-Un blane - that is one massive home!
I too am looking and thinking - have lots of red pine on parcel I bought near Effie, in northern MN. The sizes are all over the map - from 10"-28" so I should be could maybe if I elect to harvest them. Much smaller size cabin is my vision - 28 x 28 or similar with a half loft. I have no way of bringing in a cement truck so it will be bags of sakrete when the day comes , hopefully in summer of next year. Can something this size be supported by just concrete piers?
I really want to have my walls as low as reasonably done to look nice and support a loft - thinking 7-8 logs max in height, mainly because it me and myself doing the build. No way to get big equipment in to help out - big rock outcropping surround build area. There are numerour 100 year old cabins around me that were built w/o equipment so I sure as heck can too.

Are the classes ever during the week? I work weekends - just changed careers and thats what it is I guess until I call it a day.

[Tokn]

Amazing blane - that place looks soooo much larger than that footprint. Maybe it's the height that make it appear to be so. ?
I'd give anything to get a cement truck in - sure make things easier. Many in area stayed small in size on what they did build for this reason - access.
I just made a career chage - jobs are almost non-existent in the area so I am feeling might Blessed to have one. The comp is exceptional and more than I used to make doing a 40 so I intend to hold onto it.
Maybe in a year or so I can slip away for a weekend class but no way now, at this point in time.
I have a logger coming by tomorrow or Wednesday to give me a bid on dropping some lumber. I could but won't - things shall be tight to get dropped without getting hung up. I saw this guy selective cut a few months ago and he was felling in small spots like it was easy as 1-2-3.
I have a tractor that I can drag them to a common staging area for storage. He asid the best time would be a few months - he timbers for some local log home builders in area. That actually is how I found him - I was looking at hiring all out and being done

[mco65]

Amazing blane - that place looks soooo much larger than that footprint. Maybe it's the height that make it appear to be so. ?
I'd give anything to get a cement truck in - sure make things easier. Many in area stayed small in size on what they did build for this reason - access.
I just made a career chage - jobs are almost non-existent in the area so I am feeling might Blessed to have one. The comp is exceptional and more than I used to make doing a 40 so I intend to hold onto it.
Maybe in a year or so I can slip away for a weekend class but no way now, at this point in time.
I have a logger coming by tomorrow or Wednesday to give me a bid on dropping some lumber. I could but won't - things shall be tight to get dropped without getting hung up. I saw this guy selective cut a few months ago and he was felling in small spots like it was easy as 1-2-3.
I have a tractor that I can drag them to a common staging area for storage. He asid the best time would be a few months - he timbers for some local log home builders in area. That actually is how I found him - I was looking at hiring all out and being done


sounds like your WAY ahead of the game..

[Timberwolf]

Amazing blane - that place looks soooo much larger than that footprint. Maybe it's the height that make it appear to be so. ?
I'd give anything to get a cement truck in - sure make things easier. Many in area stayed small in size on what they did build for this reason - access.
I just made a career chage - jobs are almost non-existent in the area so I am feeling might Blessed to have one. The comp is exceptional and more than I used to make doing a 40 so I intend to hold onto it.
Maybe in a year or so I can slip away for a weekend class but no way now, at this point in time.
I have a logger coming by tomorrow or Wednesday to give me a bid on dropping some lumber. I could but won't - things shall be tight to get dropped without getting hung up. I saw this guy selective cut a few months ago and he was felling in small spots like it was easy as 1-2-3.
I have a tractor that I can drag them to a common staging area for storage. He asid the best time would be a few months - he timbers for some local log home builders in area. That actually is how I found him - I was looking at hiring all out and being done


I'd recommend keeping those trees upright and growing until you take the class.

[blane]

What Timberwolf said! Leave em alone until your ready to something with them.

[Mosseyme]

Agreed about the trees staying green until time to use. We did our own logging and have been a long time doing it because of the location but we had to do it asap because they are dying and don't last long standing dead. We are now stressing about getting them under cover before they start to rot. Leave um up!!!
We went to a Thru-Fri class but they haven't had one since. There were several other people there that were able to come only because it was a weekday class. Put in a request for weekday class and notification of the class. We have people who have been waiting for a weekday class as well.

[Mosseyme]

Agreed about the trees staying green until time to use. We did our own logging and have been a long time doing it because of the location but we had to do it asap because they are dying and don't last long standing dead. We are now stressing about getting them under cover before they start to rot. Leave um up!!!
We went to a Thru-Fri class but they haven't had one since. Put in a request for week class and notification of the class. We have people waiting for a weekday class as well.

[Tokn]

Thanks guys and read enough here to know why you say that. The way this is going to play out is I, me and myself lol.
I will either start to build next summer or I will hire it out. I know trees come down in the winter for sap reasons - bet 30-40% of the cabins/homes around me are log. Some are butt and pass, some are coped. Even saw a cord job - cool but not for me.
If I cannot get 'er done someone will. I'd rather fund some of it than wait to long. I am unfortunately not a youngster anymore. :(

A neighbor up the way took the class years back when Skip was teaching it. Early 80s I think. Pete somebody is his name ... he built his own with some help. Still a solid home but could use a power wash and serious stain. He must be in his late 70s and doesn't seem to mind the look. He has a piece of lakeshore and land that people would kill for....probably did 100 years ago. lol

So what other boo-boo's do you feel I may make before getting to class ?????- I'm not a CL kind of guy, will buy quality local used items if they there and always prefer to spend in the community I live in. Makes everyone happier - and we all are neighbors at that.

My game plan is to have a local guy with a Wood mizer cut my flooring now too so it is dry and hopefully ready to use. I will be building a solar kiln onsite for this purpose.
I've spent many years as a hobbiest woodworker so will be making all my own cabinets, doors, etc as I love to do that stuff. I plan to us emy tools at home and haul in via pick-up to the site. No way to make the cut backs with a trailer behind - in the bed or on the racks is the only way to go. Unless I waited for freeze and skided across the lake I guess - but then up up and up and up by hand. No thanks

[blane]

I would not do any grading either or septic work until you can make it to class.

[Tokn]

I would not do any grading either or septic work until you can make it to class.

Are you a mind reader?! lol
There can be no grading done - I mean literally none. Canadian shield monster boulders make that a given if the township would even give it a blessing. They won't so I don't need to worry.
We will be forced to use a stinking mound system for septic it appears. Everyone around in area had the same issues and even with attornies involved the township codes prevailed. nI a couple places a simple leach field should have been the solution the septic guys all stated. Deaf ears

Not sure if we will be drilling for a well when the time comes or using a massive holding tank and hauling in as needed. We can/will pull some water from the lake nearby for certain things like irrigation, etc as necessary. Everyones okay with that

My #1 worry was if a pier foundation could support the size home we are planning and that seems to be doable - thanks for the pics as that helped put my mind at ease there.
I have not the foggiest idea how we will create a large enough staging area to put this puppy up - that may be the biggest hurdle to deal with, not counting the labor involved of course

[Mosseyme]

tokn,
While not the most preferred way to build, you can make some breaks in the wall as in bump outs or in, thus shortening the logs. Then you would only have the ridge pole and cap logs plus the support logs that would be long and difficult to handle in your situation. Some people have used 2 piece caps and ridge pole as well.

[loghousenut]

My #1 worry was if a pier foundation could support the size home we are planning and that seems to be doable - thanks for the pics as that helped put my mind at ease there.
I have not the foggiest idea how we will create a large enough staging area to put this puppy up - that may be the biggest hurdle to deal with, not counting the labor involved of course


You said you have a neighbor who took the class from Skip. Isn't his place is in piers? Most LHBA homes were until recently. Piers are perfect for building where you have to do it all by hand. Make one form and set it up for a new pier every day if you want to.

You won't be the first one to mix his mud by hand. You could probably toss a mixer in the back of your truck to get it in to the site if you wanted to. If that Canadian Shield bedrock is nice and close to the surface it will make a great solid surface for piers and you'll save on concrete at the same time.

If you have trouble with space for staging your logs, you could have several smaller log decks scattered wherever you can. In class you will learn how to make a proper log catalog so that as you stack your walls you will be able to find the exact log that you needed just by going down the list. Then you will take off with your tractor to skid it to the site, knowing exactly where it is by the number painted on the butt. We had 4 separate log decks and all decisions were made while looking at the house, not the logs.

If you want a log home on that spot and want to build it yourself, this is the perfect system to use (in my weathered opinion).

PS... You can edit out a few of those annoying typos as soon as you post. There is an "edit post" button at the bottom of every new post you make. I sue ti every time I psot. (ha ha)

[Tokn]

Funny you should ask about his place - it's sitting, one corner on a large boulder, then has rocks used for the rest. Not a real bonafide pier to be seen unless they in the middle of it where I cannot see them.
Looks level - he claims near purrrfect, lol, maybe 22x24 or 22x26 ?? or so when I think about it and looks plumb relative to surroundings. I'm not sure it would pass a level test but he could care less I imagine. He did it with materials that were available mostly.
Re: editing ---- where? What am I missing? I see an edit tags but that is it. Am I blind?

[JJ83]

Feel free to cruise through our blog to see how we built our place with the tools that will fit into the trunk of a car. "Not all at one time though". I would look for land with usable timber on site to save money on logs that you can use for pasture later on. And if you can, try to live on site if possible. Shop around for the best deals even if it means you call 20 different suppliers for materials, and salvage surplus stores are your friend. You will save most of your money with your own sweat though. So, yes almost anyone can do this who is not afraid of hard work.

A shot of our latest progress.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vOoAltHjLPA/UE52DMlO0FI/AAAAAAAACvg/ZXy11toeQBE/s1600/IMG_2733.JPG

Wow! That is really something. I would like to think I could use my own timber when I find the right piece of land, but I was just wondering what the average cost of timber was (and what recent deals were going for these days as everything seems to rise with inflation). I can only hope to be able to produce something remotely close to that beautiful - perhaps taking the class will change my tune? ;)

@ rckclmbr428
Absolutely - Good and cheap is the way for me!

[loghousenut]

The price of logs and the price of land with logs on it is a relative thing. For us, here in the heart of former timber country, it seemed like property with marketable timber standing was gonna cost us so much more than buying logs, that we finally settled for a piece of land that we wanted to live on knowing we would leave the trees standing.

I found my logs for free through a Craigslist ad but had to swap a ton of labor for them and had to pay to haul them 3-1/2 hours. Probably the most expensive way to get free house logs but we like them. However you find your logs, compare it to shopping for a 30 year mortgage... It'll be a bargain.

This thing gets done by regular folks all the time. We also used a telehandler but it will end up not costing a thing if I ever sell it and get my money back out of it. The class truly does teach how to do it all with tools that you can load in your trunk. As we speak it is being done by folks just like you in dozens of places all over the country. It's just the matter of getting a little knowledge and a little support and rolling up your sleeves. The LHBA system works.




As for that pesky edit button, I see it directly under the "T" in the sentence that begins "Last edited by loghousenut..." at the bottom of this post. I don't know for sure but maybe you have to be a member to edit your posts.

Heck, that feature alone would be worth the price of class.

[edkemper]

JJ83

> perhaps taking the class will change my tune? ;)

It'll even change the instrument you're making the music on. :D

The same is true for your lumber. Fast and good is buying it from Home Depot. Cheap (and slow) would be cutting our own lumber. We are thinking of the slow route and being able to not only say we built the house but we can also say we also cut the lumber. We're even considering thick slabs of our lumber for our kitchen and bathroom counters instead of Granite or similar.