Old Cabin Being Dismantled; Thank You Insurance Company

[Longhare]

I actually cried when I read this article this morning. (http://heraldnet.com/article/20120623/NEWS01/706239963#Farewells-said-piece-by-piece) I don't know this man, nor have I ever seen this old cabin in the woods not far from here. But the reason it is being torn down nearly makes me sick to my stomach. Because this relic is shifting a bit from its foundation, he no longer wants to cover it with insurance. So the insurance company says, sure, fine; now either fix it or remove it from your property.

This cabin was built by hand 111 years ago, from old growth cedar from the land. The siding is hand hewn cedar planks, the interior clear knot-free cedar. He did contact the local historical society, but they don't have the money, manpower, or expertise to dismantle and move it, nor even a place to put it if they did. So instead, the man is slowly taking it apart, piece by piece, from the inside out. He will preserve as much of it as he can, maybe even sell some of the wood. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. He is 94 years old.

I hate insurance underwriters. Ugh.

Louanne

[rawson]

Wonder if the fellow had any type of consultation for foundation upgrades. Jack the cabin up and add a foundation, these types of projects are fairly common. Got to agree about the insurance companies, to bad he did not drop them and seek another firm. It worked for me been through three in less than a year it can be a real PITA.

[Peach1956]

Since when did Insurance companies have jurisdiction or authority over private property? They assume too much! People need to learn the law.

[John W]

At 94, it's too bad he didn't have someone to go to bat for him before he got to this point, like others have said above. New insurance company. A lawyer probably could have worked something out.

The only sliver lining is the wood is all still stable and dry. People will come from all over to purchase it, and either put it in a new building, closets, furniture, , cabinets, something. It will be in a different form, but the wood is too good to go to waste and will live on in different projects. Any time you can get your hands on 100+ year old wood, it's awesome.

[spiralsands]

Since when did Insurance companies have jurisdiction or authority over private property? They assume too much! People need to learn the law.

They don't have jurisdiction over private property but they can decide whether or not to insure a property based on perceived risk. If you want to insure your home, you have to dance their dance.

[edkemper]

Peach1959,

> Since when did Insurance companies have jurisdiction or authority over private property? They assume too much! People need to learn the law.

Insurance companies have huge pockets and intimate relationships with politicians. There is mandatory insurance everywhere for almost everything we do. Know what I mean?

--------

JohnW,

> The only sliver lining is the wood is all still stable and dry. People will come from all over to purchase it, and either put it in a new building, closets, furniture, cabinets, something. It will be in a different form, but the wood is too good to go to waste and will live on in different projects. Any time you can get your hands on 100+ year old wood, it's awesome.

What will be left of the wood if it's pinned with rebar?

-------

Spiralsands,

> They don't have jurisdiction over private property but they can decide whether or not to insure a property based on perceived risk. If you want to insure your home, you have to dance their dance.

Or we can post a bond instead. But how many of us can afford that?

[spiralsands]

Maybe if you owned your house?

[John W]

Ed-
In the article, it says, '"The siding is made from 12-foot hand-hewn planks. Inside, it's clear-grain cedar panels. Not a knot anywhere." I think there's lots of reclaimable lumber. There were photos of what looked like stacks of lumber from what he tore down already from the inside. There are probably beams inside too.

[edkemper]

John,

Cool. Didn't read the article.

-----

spiralsands,

I hear ya. That is my plan also. If one has enough land, it's not unreasonable to be "self insured." Cutting enough clear fire space and overbuilding the house seems to be some of the best insurance we could buy.

[patrickandbianca]

My second floor tng is 100 plus yo Doug fir reclaimed from a silo near Bozeman, Mt. All 1200 sqft is clear of knots, and the only defects are the occasional bolt hole from the original installation.

The wood in that cabin will sell very well since you can't buy new materials with that kind of quality or character anymore.

Patrick

[BenB]

Peach1959,

> Since when did Insurance companies have jurisdiction or authority over private property? They assume too much! People need to learn the law.

Insurance companies have huge pockets and intimate relationships with politicians. There is mandatory insurance everywhere for almost everything we do. Know what I mean?

Not a fan of insurance carriers but I get why they don't want an unknown liability and risk. I likely would not assume it either as standard risk as it may be a given it's coming down. On someone or something
Spiralsands,

> They don't have jurisdiction over private property but they can decide whether or not to insure a property based on perceived risk. If you want to insure your home, you have to dance their dance.

Or we can post a bond instead. But how many of us can afford that?

One doesn't have to carry insurance if no mortgage but why would anyone want to assume that crazy risk? Never heard of using a bond to insure individaul liability but imagine someone might bite. Crazy cost premium they might.

[FishingAddict]

I imagine with all the wild fires in the US right now the insurance industry has to be scratching their heads and wondering if they want to even insure structures outside a certain parameter --- and I will bet if they continue to remain in the market at all, to be ready as Florida type hurricane premium rates may be a coming in years ahead. None of us would like it but at the same time it would be hard to not understand it too.
Of course this would affect any and all structures and not log home specific.

My brothers place took 3 weeks of call call call to locate a carrier to insure they said - and the deductible was huge.
That said he's happy to just have coverage in place but kicking himself for not having flood coverage. The lake now owns the lower level of his place .... nasty looking, smelling and mighty depressing to look at :(

[edkemper]

Addict,

Insurance companies generally speaking don't go broke because of covering losses. They only go out of business because of bad management and/or criminal acts. They do not get injured by Florida's losses (for instance). They don't lose money on wildfires. They just raise the price to all to cover any losses, their expenses and their bonuses.

You'll totally waste your time worrying about them losing money.

[FishingAddict]

Addict,

Insurance companies generally speaking don't go broke because of covering losses. They only go out of business because of bad management and/or criminal acts. They do not get injured by Florida's losses (for instance). They don't lose money on wildfires. They just raise the price to all to cover any losses, their expenses and their bonuses.

You'll totally waste your time worrying about them losing money.

Not wasting my time at all Ed - if one needs to secure insurance for something and carriers cease underwiting in area it limits those that will, and hence drives premium structures up for those that remain.

My brother (still), my father and 2 uncles all worked in the industry dating back to the 40's, my brother for 40 plus years. All have been actuaries or Department Managers in Underwriting. They have watched many fraternals and mutuals go under over the years, major players like Executive Life and Equitable Life Assurance (now AXA) fall apart due to over-zealous assumptions in the yields needed to sustain product, poor rate structures, likey it all during their careers. And yep - some bad decisions too by management. The human fraility factor I guess.

A couple of disasterous years on the loss side and concentrated risk in certain areas can hurt them, regardless of what you feel. Returns on portfolios have stunk like most of our personal portfolios will attest to, heavy exposure to real estate (commercial) has not been positive, and the laundry list goes on. And indeed many are top heavy in salaries to the upper management types. This seems to be the American way of capitalism and beyond our control.
No - Allstate and the rest were not hurt in Florida to the point they go under but they do drop kick the rates nationally to offset. Smaller regional carriers don't have that option. That said ----- rates have shot up for years and it in past was not so much local driven but the coast losses can and do impact everyone. It about the bottom lione regardless and they will generate the numbers demanding by me-you-all shareholders.

Yes____ They can raise rates and will attempt to but the States regulate that to a large degree.

Naaa - no sleep shall I lose over it but right now it's mighty mighty hard to get a carrier to cover my new place in the UP and when I build this fall I may be self-insuring to a large degree. It's a location issue and every time someone pulls out or tightens underwriting up more it is an issue.

Bottom line is it always comes back to us as consumers.....costs and availability. Spend some time in parts of northern MN where the lodges are around the BWCA and Voyageurs National Park and listen to the stories they have. Says it all ...............

Cheers to all and hope your places are safe and away from the fire areas. Travelers and State Farm now have their own contracted crews trying to salvage exposures they have there ...... kinda funny but guess it's cheaper than taking a hit for the homes. Mighty big $$$$$$$ involved. I was asked to deplot that way ..... naaaaaa. Might be time to retire.

btw - do I sense you dislike insurance companies? ;)

[edkemper]

To avoid wasting any moderators time, I took this off list so my friend and I can have a friendly debate. One of us will have to tie a hook on the other's line when we're finished.

[panderson03]

you're a wise man, Mr. Kemper. go easy on em. hoping to recruit them to help on our build when they've finally taken the plunge and gone to class:)

[FishingAddict]

Not a prob.... we can agree to disagree in private chat. lol
I know where you are building and would assume you had no problem in securing coverage, at least when you applied. Was it SFI or Farm Bureau or Nationwide per chance?
My SIL has had them all nearby your general area without problem in past ... but 2x increase on premium has her searching again. He!! - my HO on main place has run up that 2x too, but it took 5 years vs the one for her.
How's the build going with all the water that's dropped? Most seems south of you but I bet I will get consumed alive by the state bird, aka skeeters to you southern chaps, this weekend when I run to Voyageurs NP on a week long fishing trip. I know the flies were horrible last week too....oh well, It's summer.
One thing I never ever thought I'd want in a cabin is A/C but the last few years make me appreciate it all the more. Minnesota - dew points in the 70's. WTH is that all about? lol

[spiralsands]

Florida homeowner's is a really sore subject with me. In 14 years of owning my last house, my premium went from 750 to 3500 a year. A 1500 sq foot, block house? Meanwhile the mansions that line the coastal beaches get slammed to pieces and just keep getting rebuilt in the same risky place by their insurance companies. My rates were subsidizing them. I could have replaced my whole roof on my own for the cost of only 2 years worth of premiums. I had a little roof damage once and couldn't get a roofer to do my little job because the beach mansions were paying roofers 100K to replace storm damage roofs. And then there's the hurricane deductible. Don't even get me started!!

[edkemper]

Isn't that where they shoot minorities for wearing hoodies?

[edkemper]

panderson03,

> you're a wise man, Mr. Kemper. go easy on em.

Easy? No way! He hasn't invited me to go fishing yet. Do you think that might change if I promise to bring the beer?

[rreidnauer]

Isn't that where they shoot minorities for wearing hoodies?

That was uncalled for.

[BoFuller]

That was uncalled for.

Ed, I'm going to have to agree with Rod.

[pinewood]

Totally uncalled for! Totally off-topic. Please find another forum for that topic Ed!

Dane

[edkemper]

Point taken.

[FishingAddict]

Florida homeowner's is a really sore subject with me. In 14 years of owning my last house, my premium went from 750 to 3500 a year. A 1500 sq foot, block house? Meanwhile the mansions that line the coastal beaches get slammed to pieces and just keep getting rebuilt in the same risky place by their insurance companies. My rates were subsidizing them. I could have replaced my whole roof on my own for the cost of only 2 years worth of premiums. I had a little roof damage once and couldn't get a roofer to do my little job because the beach mansions were paying roofers 100K to replace storm damage roofs. And then there's the hurricane deductible. Don't even get me started!!

I won't ! lol

14 years and a 5x increase prolly the norm. Some is premium pumping, some is value insured, some is that magical pool to cover it all.

I'm never thrilled with the hurricane thing....we subsidize it too and will never have a hurricane of course.
Take a good hard look at the local and state gubbermints here - they are more programs to bail out those that keep repeating the same ol' - same ol' rebuilds and certain claims it makes me ill. And yep - that good ol' supply and demand thing following a Cat is crazy. They contract with a HO and then stick it to the insurance carriers. Viscious circle. A buddy of mine swam with the Hurricane Sharks years back and they ate him up and spit out the shingles. They big, they bad, and they rule the Cat storms. The guys doing the labor see squat. Capitalism run amok. And we all pay either via premium or taxes. I'm done ---- time for me to pack up and head out to chase musky. Happy 4th to all!

[FishingAddict]

panderson03,

> you're a wise man, Mr. Kemper. go easy on em.

Easy? No way! He hasn't invited me to go fishing yet. Do you think that might change if I promise to bring the beer?

Did you not read your PM's?? Offer made a few hours ago. ;)

[Pugsleeplikelog]

Did you know that when you purchase homeowner's insurance, it's not the home that's insured, it's the person who bought the insurance? Mike paid for a year's worth of homeowner's insurance in June of 2011. I assumed the house was insured until June of 2012. When I tried to renew the policy, I found out that the coverage Mike purchased didn't exist the day he passed, which was in July of 2011.

I was shocked the house had no insurance all that time. I'm going to try to see if they will refund that premium, but I'm thinking they won't.
Terri & the Pugs of Joy

[edkemper]

Check with your state insurance regulators. In my state they love questions and complaints to investigate. It will be worth the effort if only to know for sure.

God bless and good luck.