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Thread: Sun Direct Power (formerly Sound Wisdom) SG-1 5,000 Watt Solar Generator

  1. #21
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    Sound Wisdom email

    Hi Everyone,

    Last week the Log Home Builders Association received an email from Joshua Daniels of Sound Wisdom, demanding a takedown of this thread. We present his email below in its entirety, unedited except for removing his contact information.

    We are posting his email in the interest of transparency and will be posting our reply shortly.

    -The Mgt.


    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Daniels of Sound Wisom

    Date: Friday, September 2, 2011
    Subject: You're publishing libel.

    The post on your forum at http://community.loghomebuilders.org...enerator/page2 by user rreidnauer contains legally actionable libel, falsely accusing our organization of deceptive trade practices.

    Here’s the worst offending statement, though the whole post is an accusation of deliberate lying about out product: “"5000 watts with 10,000 watt reserve" means nothing without mentioning expanding the batteries and panels. That is the deception.”

    Every system we ship runs 5,000 watts of equipment powered by a set of test batteries as part of our inspection before packing. That’s fully loaded, working equipment that’s pulling 5,000 watts out of the system. We only have one set of test batteries, and it functions for about twenty tests before it needs recharging. We also state repeatedly on our website that such a load can only be sustained for less than an hour by one set of batteries, and that more batteries must be added to use the system so heavily for longer periods of time. Meaning, we can prove his statement false to any jury in the land, and the electrical knowledge he displays in his posts proves that he knew it was false when he made it. As the publisher, the libel responsibility lies mainly on you, unfortunately, so it is with your organization that we must take up this issue.

    Mr. Reidnauer is also correct in stating that the rated wattage of the equipment wasn’t the actual wattage being used. In the video shot in the veterinary barn, the load was a microwave on high, two heaters, and a branding iron, which pulled their full wattage the whole time: they can’t do anything less. Given the electrical knowledge he displayed, we can also prove that to be a deliberate lie.

    We originally registered for your forum only to answer other false statements about our system, and our registration was banned for “selling” in the forums. If you choose to hold merchants helpless to answer false statements about their products and business practices, you make the libel published by you from your users deliberate.

    We don’t believe you intended to do that. However, it is the result of these posts and decisions. It’s in the spirit of resolution that we’re contacting you now.

    That whole thread contributes nothing to anyone’s understanding any longer. If we may make a friendly suggestion, just remove the whole thread. We got to answer the original false statements that were made about our products, and what came after that is irrelevant if it gets removed. If it stays, it’s libel. It’s also a violation of your Terms of Service, in some of the same ways your moderator cited in banning our registration. Specifically, #4 comes to mind. As for advertising, when someone asks for information, if pointing out where it can be found is advertising, you’re doing a disservice to your users, which we also don’t believe you really intend to do. Or is it only advertising if someone from the company in question posts it? If I ask a friend to do it, is it then not advertising? Odd, at least.

    We’re always interested in peaceful resolution of issues, while it can be done. Please stop publishing that false and defamatory thread.

    Joshua Daniels
    Sound Wisdom Life Products
    Sound-Wisdom.com
    A division of the Sea Lions Foundation
    SeaLionsFoundation.com

  2. #22
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    The LHBA response to Sound Wisdom

    Mr. Daniels:

    I'm sorry that you are unhappy with the way the discussion about your product (the Sound Wisdom SG1 5000 watt solar generator) has turned out. However I'm afraid that you have at least partly brought it upon yourself by accusing our users of stupidity ("little short of stupid") and attacking these potential customers who are simply wondering if your product can in fact live up to your claims.

    The internet has a funny way of figuring things out, given a little time and discussion on the part of smart, interested people. If your product is what it claims to be, why would you want to limit the discussion to only your responses? Perhaps some of your satisfied customers will drop in and join the discussion, and post their own videos of your product in use?

    All of your accusations of libel and defamation are baseless. Your not-so-veiled threats to legal action only make you appear to be a bullying, immature crybaby who cannot stand having an open public discussion about your products, your "organization" and your claims.

    I direct you to the Communications Decency Act of 1996, Section 230 (See Wikipedia and EFF), under which the provider of an interactive computer service (such as an online discussion forum) enjoys broad immunity from claims such as yours relating to information provided by a third party (such as our users). In fact the courts have ruled in favor of the providers in such cases EVEN when they have been warned about potentially libelous or defamatory content (Zeran v. America Online, Inc., 129 F.3d 327 (4th Cir. 1997)). This immunity is so broad that any claims in this area are unlikely to survive even the most perfunctory of pretrial proceedings.

    Further, the Log Home Builders Asssociation is a Washington state non-profit entity, and as such is covered by Washington's ANTI-SLAPP (Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation) statute (RCW 4.24.525). Not only are we immune to lawsuits pursuing frivolous claims of libel and defamation related to discussions in the public interest, we are also entitled to attorney's fees in such cases, and a $10,000 penalty to discourage further violations of our free speech rights. Since we have no nexus in your home state of Oklahoma, it is unlikely that you could successfully pursue your claims anywhere but Washington, making you subject to these strict anti-SLAPP laws and related sanctions and penalties.

    In addition to the Washington anti-SLAPP laws, making such ridiculous claims in an actual court of law would put almost any claimant squarely into Rule 11 sanction territory (see both Federal and Washington state rules of civil procedure). Especially after you have been notified (via this communication) about the applicable code above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Daniels of Sound Wisdom
    We originally registered for your forum only to answer other false statements about our system, and our registration was banned for “selling” in the forums. If you choose to hold merchants helpless to answer false statements about their products and business practices, you make the libel published by you from your users deliberate.

    We don’t believe you intended to do that. However, it is the result of these posts and decisions. It’s in the spirit of resolution that we’re contacting you now.
    You were not banned for "selling". When you showed up to defend and make further claims about your product, everyone here was interested in hearing what you had to say. It was your disrespectfulness towards the other users that created the problem. Yes, we have very strict rules against advertising and selling on our forums, but those are usually fixed with a friendly email rather than banning someone. It's only the bullying, boorish, name-calling jerks who get banned without friendly warnings first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Daniels of Sound Wisdom
    That whole thread contributes nothing to anyone’s understanding any longer. If we may make a friendly suggestion, just remove the whole thread. We got to answer the original false statements that were made about our products, and what came after that is irrelevant if it gets removed. If it stays, it’s libel. It’s also a violation of your Terms of Service, in some of the same ways your moderator cited in banning our registration. Specifically, #4 comes to mind.
    Yes, we can understand you wanting us to "remove the whole thread". A quick peek on the internet shows that this discussion ranks quite highly in just about every search query for your product:

    Sound Wisdom Solar
    Sound Wisdom SG-1
    Sound Wisdom Solar Generator

    I imagine that now (or soon) you will be getting calls from potential customers who are asking questions that are similar to those raised in this discussion. I'm sure you would like to sweep this conversation under the rug and have it go away entirely.

    The only one who violated rule #4 in that conversation was you, and as such we will be keeping this discussion up. If nothing else it will serve as a warning to the general public about how poorly you respond to criticism of your product.

    You are a bully, and we do not negotiate or compromise with bullies. We stand prepared to defend our first amendment rights as providers of this forum, and if you insist on continuing with your baseless claims we are prepared to vigorously defend ourselves and to pursue every remedy within our reach against you.

    Please note that our defense would not be limited to merely presenting our legal case to a court. We will go on the offensive. An absolute defense against claims of libel is that the speech in question is in fact provably true. Although the Log Home Builders Association has not yet advanced an opinion regarding your claims, it would be fairly easy for one of our members to buy one of your products and document the actual performance in real-world conditions. Or perhaps locate an existing customer of yours who would be willing to share their product with our engineers who can perform a proper review? It would be fun to disassemble one of your products, document the components inside, research the limitations and costs of the various components, and post the results on Youtube for all to see, regardless of whether the results were positive or negative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Daniels of Sound Wisdom
    We’re always interested in peaceful resolution of issues, while it can be done.
    If you are truly interested in a peaceful resolution, you should cease your juvenile attempt at "playing lawyer" immediately, apologize, and go away before the Streisand Effect comes into play.

    Regards,

    -The Mgt.

  3. #23
    LHBA Member loghousenut's Avatar
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    Solar Power Manufacturers.

    Very informative thread you've got there. I had never heard of the Streisand Effect before today. Would the Streisand Effect work with good publicity or does it only take on a life of its own with the kind of publicity that a person would want to suppress?

    Personally I've never had any experience with the Sound Wisdom SG1 5000, so I'll just stay out of it.

  4. #24
    LHBA Member Timber's Avatar
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    wow.. them's what you call opening a can of worms

    i was going to suggest killing the thread .... but thought it might be more informative not to
    i saw this video ad on a site i visit ....
    does the guy know Rod works in the solar industry??? guess not

    well i saved some people....i will have a collection plate for all the
    unawares ... cash n carry .... i dont do pay-pal

    i will be sure to give rod his share

    wow i just read the can of whoop a$$ the admin handed out to said threats

    oh the streisand effect< she aint the fat lady singing is she? sorry barb, i couldn't resist
    nice home too!
    Last edited by Timber; 09-10-2011 at 11:46 AM.

  5. #25
    LHBA Member merc66rkm's Avatar
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    I think Sound Wisdom got burned...ouch. Good job Rod!

  6. #26
    LHBA Member Timber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merc66rkm View Post
    I think Sound Wisdom got burned...ouch. Good job Rod!
    i think this site and thread=sound wisdom

  7. #27
    LHBA Member edkemper's Avatar
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    Gotta love what Skip designed and that it's still run the same way by the present administration of this list. Beautiful work guys. The law is very powerful when you know what you're doing.
    edkemper

    Class: Valentine's Day weekend 2009

    Feel the Bern!

  8. #28
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    The Streisand Effect has happened to her at least twice.

    I used to live in Beaufort, South Carolina. It's a small, old town, and Ms. Streisand rented a local home there, in the historic district, while making a movie in the area. (There's a positive story that goes with how she left the place -- absolutely immaculate). Well, one morning the Marine Corps Air Station, based in Beaufort, flew jets nearby, and she called the base commander. The top brass took her call and she requested they not make so much noise. The commander apologized politely, asked where she was, and said he'd take care of it.

    The next morning, a formation flew in low and loud like thunder, right over downtown and her house in particular. She did not call to complain again. :-)


    Peter

  9. #29
    LHBA Member Timber's Avatar
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    i was fishing up in Meadowlark Lake in WY. there is a base near there ... some jets roared by that leaves a rumbling hard to describe bacause of the location up in the big horns

    Streisand Effect ....what you want to happen goes viral the opposite

    And then there is that youtube video we need someone to do....Rod??

    more fuel for truth

    http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r257...-Need-Opinions.
    Last edited by Timber; 09-10-2011 at 05:20 PM.

  10. #30
    LHBA Member rreidnauer's Avatar
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    WOW! I really need to not go away on weekends anymore!

    Look, the guy is unhappy that his bread and butter is getting a bruised reputation, I get that. I merely pointed out lacking information in a video that is mentioned in this thread by the OP. When he decided to criticize my knowledge and weigh insults, I simply answered with facts. He, in one breath, asks if I know anything about "this stuff", while in another, says I have electrical knowledge. Yet, he continues (between regular threats of legal action) to provide deceptive information, such as: "We only have one set of test batteries, and it functions for about twenty tests before it needs recharging." Twenty tests? What? 5 seconds? 30 seconds? a minute? What? It just another baseless claim.

    With statements like: "Yes, running an inverter at peak power will kill it fairly quickly, but that one has balls and backbone and will take a lot of killing." and "...and our batteries are designed to take that much power and give it back, day after day." it is this, along with the video missing plenty of factual information, that leads me to call their statements deceptive.

    Really, I've been holding back, but I thought that was enough for one post. I offer Joshua some suggestions. Take down the video mentioned at the beginning of this thread. (you know, the one which mentions flat-out false wattage numbers) Also, work on your customer relations. A good company can be graceful during good times, and also on rough roads. His actions here have done nothing to promote his business. Hopefully, he'll see the error of his ways, make the corrections needed, and get back on track.
    Last edited by rreidnauer; 09-12-2011 at 04:04 PM. Reason: replaced "video" with "thread" in last paragraph
    All my bad forum habits I learned from LHN

    Rod Reidnauer
    Class of Apr. 9-10, 2005
    Thinking outside the vinyl sided box

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