Self-Sustained Living

[edkemper]

Doing a little research on the net.

In an article I found they refer to Trojan T-105 batteries as a newer standard. They say they are priced at $220 a piece. They talk of two banks of 12 batteries each. 24 total.

From the article: 24 T-105 batteries x $220 = $5280


However looking on the internet, I can buy the T-105 batties for $125 a piece.


24 batteries x $125 = $3000


If I have to replace all of them every 8-10 years, I'm betting I could do a little traveling for what I could save by being off grid. That would cost average to just $25 per month. Not including all the (free - sort of) power you stored and used over that same period.

The more research I do the better this looks.

[Kick Forward]

I would say that it is not the computers that would be the problem. Anything that uses electricity to heat is where you really get high levels.

Thanks Sarah. Yes I realize I (we) aren't currently of the mindset of conserving electricity and would have to buy appliances and plan to live off energy we produce, but I just mean I will need constant electric and I will not be able to conserve as much as other people. I'll keep looking into it. People typically lose me when they show off a diagram...

Josh

[BoFuller]

Hi Bo, I never heard of using a forklift battery before. I use more electric than the average person (I assume) being that I work with computers and other gadgets and work from home so I never thought I could depend on solar without spending 10's of thousands. I'd like to learn more though if it may be a possibility with land I purchase to build on. So do you think solar power can be a possibility for someone who uses a lot of electricity? I'm planning on building in Kentucky for reference. My bills are all over the place, from 261 KWH to 1,200+ KWH some months.

As Sarah mentioned, as long as you are not using electric for heating, you will have no problem off the grid. I have a neighbor who has a system that produces over 10K per day and he is not really into cutting back. He wants to be able to use his arc welder while his wife is doing the laundry and has the big screen on.

[Kick Forward]

Great, thanks Bo. It seems that a lot of you are very knowledgable on the subject so I will try and tackle it. I was already going to use gas for cooking, wood as single source of heat, energy efficient appliances - but didn't think you could build a 2k+ square foot home and be solely dependent on solar.

[lilbluehonda]

I live of the grid along ways off the grid and Ed your numbers aren't even close to reality,if your running a entire house you usually use L-16 Batteries or fork lift Batteries ,good Trojan L-16's are 360.00 ea. if you run a entire house you'll probably need 12 or more and a lot of battery interconnects and a stand by generator for overcast days which would double your price,I live off batteries I know it cost alot just gas for the battery charging generator is around 100.00 a month in the winter

[StressMan79]

Modern electronics are sippers of power, the biggest loss comes from your inverter--which is largely unneeded (technically) here's why:

Anything that runs off a computer runs on 12VDC. Even some computers that require more still require DC. AC is only good for converting between voltages (transformers work fairly well), but you could provide DC at say 12V from a 120 VDC source(or really anything down to ~36V). Anyway, most electronics have different transformers that run different parts (like a motor and controller might run ~ 120VDC/12VDC) of the same unit.

Thus it is easier to get a tru sine inverter, but not strictly required. For instance, hair dryers have 2 parts: A fan and heating coil. The heating coil will of course work just fine on DC. What surprises many is that the motor is a DC motor. There is just a bridge rectifier before it, so it would work fine on 12VDC too.

Actually many low power motors are DC motors. Fans, ETC would work fine on DC.

They have CFLs that work on lower voltage, but they cost much more, but what most people don't know is that CFLs rectify the input first, then do stuff do it...So 120VDC would work fine for that too.

LCD backlighting is 120VDC, LED is 12 VDC...but either is DC. You could engineer it to run on DC as well...

FWIW

[BoFuller]

I live of the grid along ways off the grid and Ed your numbers aren't even close to reality,if your running a entire house you usually use L-16 Batteries or fork lift Batteries ,good Trojan L-16's are 360.00 ea. if you run a entire house you'll probably need 12 or more and a lot of battery interconnects and a stand by generator for overcast days which would double your price,I live off batteries I know it cost alot just gas for the battery charging generator is around 100.00 a month in the winter

I know people who don't even own a generator. If you have enough panels, and have your charger set to where it actually tops off your batteries instead of going into float at 85%. Most equipment is set extremely conservatively and needs tweaking to maximize results. But you're correct, a forklift battery is the way t go if you can swing it. More upfront cash and not exactly convenient to put in your trunk.

[BoFuller]

Great, thanks Bo. It seems that a lot of you are very knowledgable on the subject so I will try and tackle it. I was already going to use gas for cooking, wood as single source of heat, energy efficient appliances - but didn't think you could build a 2k+ square foot home and be solely dependent on solar.

Yes that can be done. You need to learn about conserving though. Simple things like putting your TV on a power bar and turning the bar off when you are not watching. Many appliances have a large phantom load - they pull a lot of juice even when you think they are off.

[BoFuller]

I live of the grid along ways off the grid and Ed your numbers aren't even close to reality,if your running a entire house you usually use L-16 Batteries or fork lift Batteries ,good Trojan L-16's are 360.00 ea. if you run a entire house you'll probably need 12 or more and a lot of battery interconnects and a stand by generator for overcast days which would double your price,I live off batteries I know it cost alot just gas for the battery charging generator is around 100.00 a month in the winter

Whoa there. I would be a little more cautious in challenging Ed. What is it that you think is way off? I see T-105's for $139, so the price is right on. And 24 of them is plenty to power a good size home as long as you don't have an electric dryer, an electric oven, an electric water heater, electric heaters, or 100W incandescent bulbs all over the house. If you have adequate solar panels, you can run things with heavier usage during the day and be a little more conservative after sundown.
I don't see where he is way off.

[StressMan79]

Yes that can be done. You need to learn about conserving though. Simple things like putting your TV on a power bar and turning the bar off when you are not watching. Many appliances have a large phantom load - they pull a lot of juice even when you think they are off.

The biggest problem with phantom loads, in off-grid applications is ANY current requirement will make your inverter come off standby and take ~5% of it's RATED POWER. That is if you have a 2400 W inverter and you plug in a 5W cell phone charger, You'll draw 120+5 W. A very unuseful waste of electricity. Now if you are having movie night, you can prolly run a 700W microwave off that inverter and have enough left for LED lighting, a LED big screen and a surround sound System. Just don't leave it plugged in when you go to bed (I suggest a battery shutoff to make sure you have no problems)

-Peter