A better way to PEEL and DEBARK?

**rocklock** · 02-26-2011, 02:08 PM

A few thoughts about peeling bark from Douglas Fir (also Hemlock and White or Noble Fir). Other logs may be different.
I have a real problem with how we talk about cambium layer and the like... I was taught in biology about the xylem and phloem cells that make up the layer of Cambium Cells... The Xylem cells make the woody layers that are more or less dense which make the yearly rings... OK then, I got that off my chest. See below.

I have been taught that the annual layers help shed moisture hence it is good to just remove the bark and keep the ring structures intact. The easiest way to do that, IMHO is with a spud or scraper that rides along the sapwood and leavers the bark (phloem) off... You are then left with ( in Douglas Fir) a dark streaky dirty layer of stuff that can look quite attractive sometimes.

If you want to remove the streaky stuff you can use a power washer with out tearing the fibers of the heart or sap wood. It can be easily done because I have done it. Check out any of my logs.

One thing about peeling logs from an ergonomic perspective is that the leverage from a long handled spud is really important. Note; the spud in the picture is the original Blue Wonder, the perfect spud.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/IMG_2573.jpg
The reason you want to power wash the logs on the ground is because you want to put up clean logs and not need to power wash both inside and out like the below picture.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...1/100_4087.jpg
About logs that has been peeled with a draw knife. They look like this - you can see different annual rings. some folk like it... I don't care for it... But that's just me...
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...f/100_0256.jpg

Below is taken from the Encyclopædia Britannica.
"cambium, plural Cambiums, or Cambia, in plants, layer of actively dividing cells between xylem (wood) and phloem (bast) tissues that is responsible for the secondary growth of stems and roots (secondary growth occurs after the first season and results in increase in thickness). Theoretically, the cambium is a single layer of cells, called initial cells; practically, it is difficult to distinguish the initials from their still-undifferentiated daughter cells, and several cell layers are collectively called the cambium, or cambial zone. Cambial cells divide to produce secondary xylem cells toward the central axis of the stem and secondary phloem cells toward the outside. The cambium originates from undifferentiated cells that have retained their embryonic capacity for continued growth and differentiation."

**superloggy** · 02-26-2011, 03:38 PM

The only reason to leave the cambium layer is if you don't know how, there is no benefits to keeping it only negatives. But leaving it won't cause the house to immediately fall apart or rot or anything like that. I have seen people leave the bark on and build, but those were trapper/hunter cabins built in a few days with out any regard to the appearance. Some people do a skip peel leaving strips of cambium which quickly turn dark brown really for a striped type look. So what every ones personal preference for what they want their house to look like they should do that and they will have a great house.
But if you want your house to be clean, smooth and see the beautiful grain of the logs and want it to stay that way for years peeling with a drawknife really is the only way to go.
Not to mention the mess the cambium layer will make of any of the protective finishes available on the market.
Luckily peeling a log with a drawknife isn't that hard if its what you want to do. One of the best log peelers I have met was 58 years old and probably 140 lbs. Its no surprise he was the best at shapening a drawknife I have ever seen tho.

**edkemper** · 02-26-2011, 07:02 PM

Personally, I'll stick with the Skip Style Home and stick with the Associations recommended ways of doing things. Of course you can do it any way you want.

As for which peeling method looks best? I'd love to hear which homes in the student built homes section you find unattractive because they didn't use a draw knife on their logs.

**superloggy** · 02-26-2011, 07:58 PM

If thats your preference thats great. It's easy and quick and cheap like it is intended.
The lhba, butt and pass stack, bark on style is meant for the person who is only going to build one house without having any previous experience. That's not saying you don't have to be somewhat handy. But the system works together and that's a great thing. Actually a lot of log home companies have terrible building systems. They use incompatible features that are soley meant to look unique or give them some useable sales pitch over their competition. I have been contracted to build huge mansion size log homes using round notches (which are terrible from an thermal efficiency and structural stand point) but that is the look the owner wants and it's their nickel.
And I'm not advocating anyone to go against their training and knowledge if they are not comfortable/knowledgable/skilled enough to do it. But their are many different ways to build a log house and once built they will all out last you or I.
If someone asked me what the perfect way to build a log house was I would respond is first the way you are able and second the way you want it to look. Just like a conventional house they don't all look the same or have all the same materials(brick,wood,vinyl etc). What one person likes and wants isn't anothers choice or budget.
The only difference between someone being capable of building lhba style and all the other methods is chainsaw skills and tool sharpening skills/knowledge and a couple more cheap tools(good chisel,transfer scribes,flexible square,drawknife)

**loghousenut** · 02-27-2011, 11:12 AM

Open invitation...

Open invitation to any member who wants to borrow a few of my collection of 16 peeling spuds. I extend the invitation to include my drawknife collection. I have a dozen or so and they are extremely useful. I have always shied away from the "carved" look that a draw knife gives to a wall log and, because of this preference, I have had usually peeled wall logs with spuds. Whenever friends or family have been around at peeling time they have always had access to the drawknife collection but once they know that the "carved" look is not what we are after, they tend to gravitate to their favorite spud.

Obviously we who love the LHBA style of building tend to lean toward the "don't carve away the log" teachings of our departed mentor Skip Ellsworth. I buy it and live it and it makes sense to me, and yet there are plenty among us who build LHBA homes using lathe turned logs. Their homes turn out great, as they would have if they had used drawknives to carve a texture into the logs.

I LOVE drawknife work and have peeled my share of 5" poles over the years, but in my life the primary use for a good drawknife is making tool handles out of firewood. Give me a straight bolt of clear Ash wood and set me at the shaving horse with Grandad's old drawknife and I am in my element. Perhaps it makes little sense to save $10 in todays USA in the making of a hammer handle but, then again, maybe I'm not totally in today's USA. In my world, any hammer head is worth a quarter and sooner or later I'll have a handle set into most of my bucketful.

Superloggy, It is kinda nice to have someone from the LHOTI side of the world to yak at without all the name-calling and posturing that tends to come from both sides at times like this. It'll probably break down sooner or later and deteriorate into all of us rolling around in a muddy gutter, but I'm here to say welcome to the fray. We all get stuck in our own comfort zones and hold hands with those of like minds. You can hold my hand if you want to but I'm sure you will understand how we will always think of you as "that guy superloggy".

Next time you are in Medford, Oregon I wish you would stop in at Costco and look me up. I am the largest thing in the building that is not a forklift and everyone knows I am building a funny looking log house with a big ridgepole. The association asks us not to give out our email address or phone # on the non-member side and I respect that. I'm sure the moderator won't mind my invitation in the manner that I have given it.

**superloggy** · 02-28-2011, 12:53 AM

Thanks loghousenut,
I appreciate your offer if I get to do a set up close enoughto Medford and I have time I will look you up and of course you would be welcome to come check whatever house/style I have on the go.
I realize I'm not this websites intended audience and you won't fully accept me into the fold. I have worked on more log homes than I can remember(I actually worked for the worlds largest manufacturer approx. 500 units a year) and almost every log building company I have contracted for has their own system and ideas. And they all think they do it the best way. I don't agrue or call names its not worth getting emotional over I just want to get the job done and have a happy client.
I do admire everyones passion for log homes here, its a sentiment I share in a different way and I appreciate you tolerating me.

**Timberwolf** · 02-28-2011, 09:01 AM

Having peeled my share of 60ft logs, I will state with 100% confidence that if I'd used a drawknife, I'd still be peeling. 1.5" thick bark on the butt of the 22" plus, winter cut, EWP pine logs I used was not drawknife friendly. Takes a pile of effort with a spud. Done correctly, you get a perfectly smooth, cut/knick free surface that looks just like nature intended, with no cambium.

**loghousenut** · 02-28-2011, 09:47 AM

Ya build on the common ground and ya let the uncommon ground find its own level. Of course sometimes all that uncommon ground gets soggy and full of slung mud (from the mudslinging) and the entire mess goes downstream in a flood of foul language and insults, taking whatever you have built with it all the way to the sea.

We are passionate and yet I find this forum to be one of the most civil on the web. I think it remains civil because most of us follow a similar dream and, though we are a diverse lot, we have so much in common. It is even more so on the members side of the forum. Folks from all over come here because they are attracted to a dream of freedom and simplicity. Attracted to the notion that, right now in the 21st century, we can build a home for our family and own it when we are done with it. If we keep it at that level it stays fun and nobody gets hurt.

Once in awhile someone like me spouts off about politics or religion and the next thing you know everyone is ganging up on everyone else and then the moderator has to step in and moderate all that freedom of speech. Then it gets back to the common ground part of the forum and folks concentrate on the task at hand... Building a home with their own hands. Once in a while someone from outside the group spouts off about how it OUGHTA be done and the thread deteriorates into a scramble for bigger and better slanderous insults from all sides. Sure, it's fun for awhile but it's not productive and no wall logs get stacked while it's happening.

Superloggy, you spoke in a previous post about not being welcome as a member because you are already a builder. It is a shame to exclude folks who have so much to give from the members side, and yet it is totally understandable. Pick any one style of building (round notch, dovetail, mud brick, hay bale) and teach a system to a bunch of rank amateurs who want to build, and that system will stand on its own past the architect, engineer, and building inspector to possible completion as a family home. Once you start combining one or more systems, you get the project to the complexity that requires skills and creates problems that cannot be addressed in a short class or on a forum.

Our method (I am only a student from 20 years ago and a LHBA member) teaches one way to build that is incredibly simple and creates a bulletproof home. It is doable by folks like me. When the few rules taught in class are followed it works. Every time I have broken a rule it has cost me money and time. Breaking some of those rules may cost building integrity and risk injury or death. The idea of this group is to keep teaching that one method and keep a string of satisfied students living the dream. It works. The instructors discuss and describe many methods of log building in class but the system would not work if the focus were not on the LHBA butt and pass method. As a student I can see that. As a guy who loves building with logs and yet does not want to be a contractor or work for someone who is a contractor, I LOVE it!

This kinda thing doesn't come along every day, and when it does it doesn't often keep going for decades. As you look through the photo gallery you will see things to nitpick about and you'll see things that you woulda done differently. We all do. You'll see those same "why did he do it that way?" things in my latest project. I don't know why all those other folks did it that way but I know in my case, we did it that way because that's how Skip woulda done it and it works.

This is what it's all about... A college kid who will take time out to work on a house for his Mother... And his Grandchildren!

**drummer boy** · 02-28-2011, 09:59 AM

Nice photo. Very inspiring. I have seven special needs children that we homeschool. My hope for them is that they embrace this way of living called community. Caring for family and generations of them to come is true community. This is somehow lost in our society today. I hate that. LHBA has truly embraced this concept more than even my church. (I am a pastor) I would love to take them through the class so they can see community in action and in training. Thanks for the photo.