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Thread: Hey Rod is this thing for real?

  1. #21
    LHBA Member spiralsands's Avatar
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    Atom v. Molecule

    Quote Originally Posted by GENE13
    A hydrogen bomb surely releases much more energy than is put into it.
    A Hydrogen bomb splits the atom, not a molecule.

    H2 is produced in every battery by the splitting of an acid molecule. Oxygen is also produced in that same battery by the oxidizing of the battery plates. But once released they instantaneously fuse creating water which keeps the electrolyte a particular strength and level. To reap hydrogen, you would have to keep the released gases separate as soon as they were released. You would have to somehow filter the gases to pick the hydrogen molecule away from an Oxygen atom. Good luck!

    Just as a side note the Japanese also built a solar car that had a a steering wheel that wasn't attached to the car. Sort of like a wireless mouse? The Germans have built a diesel car that gets over a 150 miles per gallon. Now THAT car, I can't remember its name, they expect to actually produce in Europe in the next few years. It was shown at the Belgium Auto Show this year. I read about it on line while researching a possible new car for myself. I accidently left the back windows down on my convertible and then it rained for 18 hours. So rather than grow mushrooms on the rug, I thought I might trade it in. With that German car I would be able to make a weeks worth of trips back and forth to work on one gallon of diesel. With my truck, which I am forced to drive while the detailer shop dries my car out, I get only one trip back and forth for a gallon and a half.

  2. #22

    OUT OF CONTEXT

    Quote Originally Posted by spiralsands
    Quote Originally Posted by GENE13
    A hydrogen bomb surely releases much more energy than is put into it.
    A Hydrogen bomb splits the atom, not a molecule.

    H2 is produced in every battery by the splitting of an acid molecule. Oxygen is also produced in that same battery by the oxidizing of the battery plates. But once released they instantaneously fuse creating water which keeps the electrolyte a particular strength and level. To reap hydrogen, you would have to keep the released gases separate as soon as they were released. You would have to somehow filter the gases to pick the hydrogen molecule away from an Oxygen atom. Good luck!

    Just as a side note the Japanese also built a solar car that had a a steering wheel that wasn't attached to the car. Sort of like a wireless mouse? The Germans have built a diesel car that gets over a 150 miles per gallon. Now THAT car, I can't remember its name, they expect to actually produce in Europe in the next few years. It was shown at the Belgium Auto Show this year. I read about it on line while researching a possible new car for myself. I accidently left the back windows down on my convertible and then it rained for 18 hours. So rather than grow mushrooms on the rug, I thought I might trade it in. With that German car I would be able to make a weeks worth of trips back and forth to work on one gallon of diesel. With my truck, which I am forced to drive while the detailer shop dries my car out, I get only one trip back and forth for a gallon and a half.



    TO THE CONTRARY, I never said otherwise, YES A Hydrogen bomb splits the atom, not a molecule.
    However, keep in mind a molecule is also made up of atoms..............



    My thread was based on what Rod said about perpetual motion. I was commenting that an atom can give off a terminus amount of energy in comparison to the energy put in to it, and that it does so because of a chain reaction that takes place. I further thorized that (IF) through electrolysis we could create a chain reaction, "NOT AN ATOMIC REACTION, WE'RE NOT MAKING BOMBS" then we would be able to create more energy out-put, then the energy that it would take to run the electrolysis.

    Like Rod I also believe it's possible, and can be used, "as I said in a prior thread", in a supplemental way.

    I hope this clears up my meaning. :-)

  3. #23

    Something about square wave pulses

    I think that some of these people are on to something different. Rather than simply use straight current, they use a square wave pulse. Some of the "hydrogen tap" videos on YouTube show people's hoome-brew experiments using Meyer's model (or what they think his was -- he's another one who claimed to have a 100% HHO on demand car, who died an untimely death...)

    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hydrogen+tap&search_sort=vide o_date_uploaded

    I sorted this search to show the most recent ones first. The experiments are often not very scientifically controlled -- very amateur.

    This guy is using some kind of oscillator. http://www.freewebs.com/jhines2/index.htm http://www.youtube.com/madscientist67

    EDIT: From madscientist67's youtube page, if you look at his subscriptions, theres a bunch of other experimenters there.

    Do you guys who have a clue how electicity works think they might be on to something? Might it be possible that pulsing the electricity at the right frequency and with the right plate setup might increase the output per unit of energy? (That's how clueless I am... I'm not even sure what unit to use -- volts? amps?)

    EDIT: I found a copy of Stan Meyer's patent. Maybe it will make sense to one of you guys, lol. http://www.waterforfuel.com/209207861.pdf

  4. #24
    LHBA Member spiralsands's Avatar
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    sines and squares

    Usually an oscillator is used to create a sine wave which is then processed to make a square wave. A square wave is a combination of the frequency and its harmonics and then cleaned up for whatever it's used for. In electronics it is usually used for timing purposes or a switching signal. But I haven't a clue how it would be used to liberate hydrogen or break up a water molecule.

    A battery producing H2 and O is vented to prevent explosions. Explosions can happen if the gasses are trapped and overheated. Which is why checking battery temperature is usually a good maintenance practice. Maybe there's a technology in there somewhere that may find its way to reality but it doesn't seem that any of the videos I watched really explained what it was. Maybe I'm missing it I did notice in one video where a guy was giving his presentation he kept referring to his patent. If he has a patent or one pending he probably isn't going to reveal his process unless he thinks he's gonna make some money. He just never came clean with the basic theory. So I don't know what to make of it.

    Just for your info Klapton, the frequency is how many cycles that sine or square waves occur in a second. Sixty cycles is your frequency for alternating current that runs your house. Your house AC is usually at 120 volts which is how big the sine wave is and the current, the amps is the force (like water through a hose) that it travels. Batteries produce Direct current which does not oscillate. It is either positive or negative in relationship to ground potential. Don't know if this helps at all. I think it's an interesting chat anyway.

  5. #25

    I guess what I don't get...

    I guess what I don't get is which measure best describes the amount of ENERGY involved in the big picture. So, let me explain my understanding of the big picture...

    H-gas production would have to start from a battery. Energy from the battery zaps the water, producing the H-gas. The H-gas burns in an internal combustion engine, turning the explosive energy into movement (spinning). The spinning causes the alternator to generate electricity which then feeds the H-gas production AND makes the car move.

    The problem with this is that burning the H-gas doesn't produce enough energy to generate enough electricity to keep producing enough H-gas using electrolysis as we know it, let alone enough surplus energy to move a car at the same time. This all makes sense to me.

    The question, I guess, is whether or not doing something to the electricity (something that does NOT require more raw energy) can increase the amount of H-gas produced from the electrolysis. This is where the wave patterns come in. If I understand correctly, it should be possible to manipulate the electical current to pulse or something without actually increasing the overall energy (again, this "overall energy" is the measure I'm not sure how to express) used.

  6. #26
    LHBA Member rreidnauer's Avatar
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    Loremo

    Quote Originally Posted by spiralsands
    The Germans have built a diesel car that gets over a 150 miles per gallon. Now THAT car, I can't remember its name, they expect to actually produce in Europe in the next few years. It was shown at the Belgium Auto Show this year. I read about it on line while researching a possible new car for myself. I accidently left the back windows down on my convertible and then it rained for 18 hours. So rather than grow mushrooms on the rug, I thought I might trade it in. With that German car I would be able to make a weeks worth of trips back and forth to work on one gallon of diesel.
    YES YES YES!!!! Now you're talking. The heck with 60 MPG hybrids that cost you more $/mile when you account for the cost of battery replacements. What a waste of resources. Germany nailed with a simple, straight 120 MPG diesel solution. (they bumped the specs down) Loremo (Low Resistance Mobile) is what I'd love my next car to be. Unfortunately, there's no plans to import this vehicle into the USA. :-( I've been hounding them, and they state it's due to difficult/expensive US safety standards. I believe it's more a marketing issue, being that Americans love big honkin' gas guzzlers, and Loremo doesn't see a profitable path with Americans likely to pull their noses up at a 20 HP car. (they also have a 50 HP version @ 80 MPH, and now an electric li-Ion version too) The projected price has since gone up massively since it's inception. (from $13K to $24K) Basically due to quelling over-optimistic construction costs and the weakening dollar. They've also backed up the production start from originally in 2009 to sometime in 2010.

    Anyhow, run that puppy on Biodiesel or WVO, and put all to shame. :-)

  7. #27
    LHBA Member StressMan79's Avatar
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    A hydrogen bomb does no

    A hydrogen bomb does no splitting of any kind. It fuses Hydrogen into helium (using a rarer isotope Deuterium, but I digress). There is less mass in the helium than in the 2 hydrogens, so Einstein says that that mass turns into energy (Energy=mass * constant^2). Anyway. I haven't followed this whole thread, so I cannot comment further, just know that we (humanity) have only been able to do anything nuclear for maybe 70 years... Anything cabin related will be purely chemical, where mass, charge, energy are all distinct and conserved.


  8. #28

    HYDROGEN BOMB ATOM SPLITTING

    There are two kinds of hydrogen bomb, Fusion and Fission.
    Also there are three basic design types that causes a nuclear weapon to detonate, In all three, the explosive energy is derived primarily from nuclear fission NOT FUSION. Fusion cannot be self-sustaining because it does not produce the heat and pressure necessary for more fusion. It produces neutrons which run away with the energy. In weapons, the most important fusion reaction is called the D-T reaction. Using the heat and pressure of fission, hydrogen-2, or deuterium ( 2D), fuses with hydrogen-3, or tritium ( 3T), to form helium-4 ( 4He) plus one neutron (n) and energy:
    Whenever a heavy atom undergoes nuclear fission it BREAKS INTO TWO OR MORE fission fragments. Also, several free neutrons, gamma rays, and neutrinos are emitted, and a large amount of energy is released. The sum of the masses of the fission fragments and ejected neutrons is actually less than the mass of original atom and incident neutron. The mass difference is accounted for in the release of energy according to the equation E=mc2:
    The uranium atom can split any one of dozens of different ways, as long as the atomic weights add up to 236

  9. #29

    130 MPG car

    Here's a 130 mpg car that's going to compete the automotive X prize.

    http://www.valentintechnologies.com/concept/default.asp

  10. #30
    LHBA Member spiralsands's Avatar
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    Low HP cars

    Quote Originally Posted by rreidnauerYES YES YES!!!! Now you're talking. The heck with 60 MPG hybrids that cost you more $/mile when you account for the cost of battery replacements. What a waste of resources. Germany nailed with a simple, straight 120 MPG diesel solution. (they bumped the specs down) [url=http://evolution.loremo.com/index.php?lang=en
    Loremo[/url] (Low Resistance Mobile) is what I'd love my next car to be. Unfortunately, there's no plans to import this vehicle into the USA. :-( I've been hounding them, and they state it's due to difficult/expensive US safety standards. I believe it's more a marketing issue, being that Americans love big honkin' gas guzzlers, and Loremo doesn't see a profitable path with Americans likely to pull their noses up at a 20 HP car. (they also have a 50 HP version @ 80 MPH, and now an electric li-Ion version too) The projected price has since gone up massively since it's inception. (from $13K to $24K) Basically due to quelling over-optimistic construction costs and the weakening dollar. They've also backed up the production start from originally in 2009 to sometime in 2010. Anyhow, run that puppy on Biodiesel or WVO, and put all to shame. :-)
    Back when I was being all I can be in the military, I had a little car over in Japan. It was a two cylinder jobbie called a Honda Minica. It looked like a tiny tiny SUV but had what was no bigger than a motorcycle engine. I think the top speed was about 50-60 MPH. At 60, you were probably cheating death flying down hill but the roads over there were not designed for high speed anyway. At that time, the 70's, I was told that I could not bring my car back to the states because it did not have enough horsepower to be road rated. These days it's safety standards? I see people riding scooters in heavy American traffic but I can't drive a little Japanese Micro-SUV?

    By the way, I found out on another forum that was discussing energy issues that diesel over in Germany sells for almost 11 bucks a gallon. I was floored.

    A sign of things to come...I saw a group of white guys on bicycles in front of a local grocery store. One biker was towing a bicycle trailer carrying a cooler that he was filling with ice and beer. Another guy was towing a passenger compartment that looked like a 'rickshaw'. And another guy had a side car on his bicycle and had another really big dude as a passenger. The 'driver' was wearing a cone hat...you know, the same cone hats the Chinese peasants wear? Then there were two boy children who had saddlebag-like cargo compartments on their respective bikes. I think the energy of the future is going to be the measured in the miles per pound of hamburger meat we consume.

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