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Thread: Hey Rod is this thing for real?

  1. #1

    Hey Rod is this thing for real?

    My dad has found this sorta hydrogen generator deal on line and he is getting the stuff together to build one. I think I understand most of the details. It goes under your hood and is pretty small. Basically it is water in a sealed chamber with a coil of stainless steel wire suspended in it. When electricity passes through the coil it breaks free hydrogen atoms that then escape from it through a tube to your intake supplementing/boosting your regular fuel. Is there enough hydrogen in a small volume of water for this to be feasible? It sounds like snake oil to me.

  2. #2

    Link?

    Do you have a link?
    I've heard of this before but I've never seen any proof from a reliable source that it works.
    I think Mythbusters did a special on gadgets that are supposed to improve your gas
    mileage but I can't remember if this was one of them.

  3. #3

    Got it Ponyboy

    It is water4gas.com Ponyboy. This is a flip flop deal cause I am always trying to prove to my dad that something will work and he is telling me it is nuts where it is vice versa here. LOL Tell me what you guys think.

  4. #4

    Hydrogen Linkies

    Hydrogen add-ons:

    http://www.drive-on-water.com/?gclid=CJavlvLvtZICFQ8vHgodf3h_kQ
    http://water4gas.com/2books.htm?hop=kevinkanny

    Daniel Dingel, a Phillipino inventor, claimed to have run his car on 100% on-the-fly Hydrogen, but kept his method secret, because he wanted the Phillipino people to gain from it, not the greedy bastards who apparently came to see his car. Here's his story on You-Tube:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVhXrvCCILw

    Stan Meyer, whose untimely death has fueled many conspiracy theorists:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6yRn4IAsrU&feature=related

    The "Joe Cell" is another Hydrogen on demand invention that people are trying to replicate:

    http://www.thejoecell.com/
    http://pesn.com/2006/04/13/9600257_Bill_Williams_threatened/

    Here's one snippet of Joe himself talking about his car:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7785149275674305332

    I found lots of info, including linkies to other sites, including a forum for hobbyists trying to replicate some of this stuff here:

    http://peswiki.com/energy/Main_Page

    My car is brand new and still under warranty, plus I can't afford to have it not work for me. So I won't be trying anything like this. Once I get my log home built (couple years from now, lol) IF I have some money to throw at an old junker, I might give it a try, hehe.

  5. #5
    LHBA Member rreidnauer's Avatar
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    Sort of real


    I mentioned before, that I have considered building an electrolyzer to SUPPLEMENT gas which would (hopefully) increase gas mileage. I don't know how much energy will be consumed to generate the hydrogen for the engine, but I can assure you it can't be a self sustaining system like Daniel Dingel claims. (he kept his "secret" because it can't work)

    The thing to remember is, water is not an energy source until it's "cracked". It requires an outside energy source to do that. And since nothing is 100% efficient, that makes it impossible to generate enough energy to power the engine, which provides the electric for the electrolyzer. It always takes more energy to make hydrogen, than the amount of energy hydrogen can provide. This is the current problem with hydrogen power today, as it's still terribly inefficient to make.

  6. #6

    I'm optimistic - have you REALLY looked into it, Rod?

    Quote Originally Posted by rreidnauer
    The thing to remember is, water is not an energy source until it's "cracked". It requires an outside energy source to do that. And since nothing is 100% efficient, that makes it impossible to generate enough energy to power the engine, which provides the electric for the electrolyzer. It always takes more energy to make hydrogen, than the amount of energy hydrogen can provide. This is the current problem with hydrogen power today, as it's still terribly inefficient to make.
    I think that there just might be something different about what these guys have come up with. It has something to do with a square wave pattern at the proper resonance frequency that "cracks" the H2O with less current than brute force current.

    I have no freakin clue about electricity, really. I worry about being able to do any of my own electrical work sometimes, especially setting up anything off-grid / solar etc. because the stuff you post, Rod, blows my brain out.

    Have you actually looked into any of this stuff, Rod? Or are you simply dismissing it based on whatever law that guy came up with 100+ years ago? I only ask because if you haven't given it any serious consideration, I'd be VERY intersted in your opinions about it AFTER you have, since you seem to be the most electrically inclined guy I know.

    I don't ask or say this to be critical, or call you "closed minded" or any such nonsense either. But if we look back at scientific history, how many things did we believe could not be done, are now commonplace? I think of the Sound Barrier, the notion that the whole universe would explode if you split the atom, etc.

  7. #7

    Klapton I got something

    Klapton I got something different from Rod's post. He's not dismissing the idea of the thing possibly supplementing your fuel and giving you more mileage. He is referring to some guy that claimed he could run his car off the system and no other fuel. The electricity for the process is coming from your alternator (powered by the fuel in your tank) which is capable of producing plenty more extra electricity than what a car's electrical systems need. I just didn't know how much potential hydrogen/power supplementation you could get out of a small volume of water. I am way to lazy to figure out the math and I knew Rod could put the numbers together off the top of his head. So Rod, bottom line, how much hydrogen energy can you obtain from a gallon of water? I remember them saying something on the site about "tweaking" your setup for your vehicle. I suspect that this has alot to do with the rate that you extract the hydrogen from the water. You don't want the most efficient stripping because that will take all of the hydrogen out of your water source quickly and give you a short period of boost. You want a setup that will crack the hydrogen out at a steady pace and inject the hydrogen into your fuel/air mix over time. LOL...I feel like the Doc talking about the flux capacitor and I am not NEARLY knowledgeable enough on this thing to be making any assumptions or suggestions. Does anybody know if there is any truth about these things being part of world war 2 aircraft fuel systems? If someone told me the thing was part of 70 year old aircraft technology and they figured out way back then that it was beneficial it would probably sway me over the edge to believing in it.

  8. #8

    I'm aksing about the crazier stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Dye
    Klapton I got something different from Rod's post. He's not dismissing the idea of the thing possibly supplementing your fuel and giving you more mileage. He is referring to some guy that claimed he could run his car off the system and no other fuel.
    No, I wasn't misreading his post. Supplementing is clearly viable. The only real question there is getting the mix right to do more good than harm, and a question of how much benefit you can really get from it. I would never do it with a newer car with computer-controlled ignition, fuel injection etc. Nor would I try it with my primary auto.

    I was addressing his dismissal of those more controversial claims. There are folks out there working on reproducing some of these gizmos, using square waves, etc. And I just wondered if Rod has looked into any of that stuff. The guy who "proved" that it takes more energy to crack hydrogen by electrolysis than the hydrogen combustion will produce used simple, brute-force current, without any consideration or experimatation with wave patterns, frequencies, various plate configurations, etc. I'd just like to hear the opinion of someone who has a clue about electricity has to say about these experiments after having devoted some serious thought to them.

  9. #9

    Jola klapton! Hey I posted

    Jola klapton! Hey I posted that last message without watching any of the videos you had on your previous post. WOW! Is there REALLY that much energy in water? That one guy said you could get a hundred miles out of 4 ounces of water. One claimed you could drive from L. A. to New York on 22 gallons with his system. Another one said that hydrogen is 1700 times more powerful than hydrocarbon fuel. I think I will pay a little more attention to pop's effort to put a system together.

  10. #10

    I dunno about anyone's specific claims

    I don't know about anyone's specific claims. I'm also not sure exactly which thing you are talking about.

    I'm no chemist, but I'm pretty sure that if you took the same mass of gasoline vapor vs. hydorgen gas, that the hydrogen gas will make a much bigger kaboom. (How's that for scientific jargon?)

    The problem that Rod pointed out, which is the big problem with hydrogen combustion cars, is that it takes MUCH more energy to create hydrogen gas by electrolysis than the combustion of the gas will produce. In other words, to zap the water to make hydrogen requires electricity. If you were to use a gasoline generator to produce the electricity, you would use more gasoline zapping the water than you would just using the gasoline to drive your car.

    But this is based on the typical, brute-force electrolysis method of sticking two electrodes in the water and zapping away.

    There are two basic theories / supposed inventions for hydrogen on the fly. One is to use frequencies, wave patterns, and electrode plate spacing to "crack" the water using way less current than brute force.

    The other is to use some kind of carbon rods and use PLASMA to do the electrolysis. (Plasma is one of the "phases" of matter, like liquid, solid, and gas.) I'm guessing that the energy generated by the phase change is great enough to crack the water molecules with less electric current than brute-force zapping. (An example of harnessing phase change energy is refrigeration/AC/heat pumps, where using mechanical energy to compress and decompress freon between it's liquid and gas phases generates heat energy.)

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