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Thread: Masonry heaters

  1. #21

    Masonry heaters

    We were (allegedly) on an automatic delivery for propane. Somehow, the supplier thought we went to another company so did not deliver. We were on fumes. Obviosly, DUH, I need to look at the tank once in a while. Now the way it was explained to me goes like this; the direct vent unit we have comes with or without an off switch for the blower motor. In the event you get down into the "mix" which is basically fumes and the additive, and the boiler won't fire, the mix should be blown back out. That explains why my neighbors all freaked from the smell. OUr's did not turn off, however so we had to kill all power and the valves because I did not know what the heck was going on. Sooner than later that motor would have died ($$$) luckily we had no frozen pipes. The company magnanimously offered us a $25 rebate for our trouble. The delivery guy ( who put $1400 of propane back into the tank) told us we should have gone with oil. And then he told us not to pay for this delivery! only in "New Joisy"......... Thankyou to all members who responded to me that night.

  2. #22

    rumford firebox

    we use rumford designs in our historic homes. They are not the drafty-wow it's cold in here when the fire is going style fire box. Look for it on our website www.1909house.com Our mason is Portland Chimney. Portland, Oregon.

  3. #23

    solar masonry heaters

    has anyone heard of attaching an active solar system to the thermal mass of a wood fiered masonary heater. active water probably won't work due to the dangers of steam when you have a wood fire burning, but an air sysem might. The mass of the stove just seems like a tempting storage spot for solar heat.

  4. #24
    LHBA Member rreidnauer's Avatar
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    Masonry heaters

    After reading an article from Backwoods Home Magazine, I had a spark of imagination to build an inexpensive wood-fired, thermal mass heater. They described using a 55 gallon drum or a heating oil tank as the combustion chamber and surround it with brick/block/rock to absorb the heat. My idea takes things a step further.

    The dimensions of a 55 gallon drum and a 275 gallon heating oil tank work out really well for combining the two. My idea involves cutting a hole in the end of the tank, near the bottom, the diameter of the drum. With the hole opened up, you can plumb some smokepipe that would depart the drum at the back, about a 1/3 of the way down. There would be room in the tank for the smokepipe to come up and across the top of the drum, and exit the tank near the front. A grate would be added to the bottom of the drum, and a loading door and damper added to the front of the whole thing. It would look something like this:



    Now, here's the neat part. Once it's all welded up and positioned in place, start adding in dry sand through the old pipe ports on top of the tank until it's filled up solid. This would make for a significant amount of thermal mass. You could fill it with concrete too, but if you ever had to move it later, you'll wish you didn't. And, if you don't like the thought of an oil tank sitting in your living room, you can still enclose it in brick or stone, further adding to it's thermal mass.

    Seems like a pretty frugal way to build an efficient heater, as barrels and tanks are pretty easy to come by. (at least around my parts) If you can weld, you're really ahead of the game. (I can, yippee!)

  5. #25
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    Masonry heaters

    Ingenious Rod. I love it. But do you think it might need some sort of air inflow? Seems like it might burn itself out because of lack of Oxygen. Or were you thinking of it with an open front?

  6. #26
    LHBA Member rreidnauer's Avatar
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    Masonry heaters

    Yea, I would add a damper/cleanout on the front that enters below the grate. Picture revised to include that detail.

  7. #27

    Masonry heaters

    Do you think that over some time the 55 gal. drum inside the fuel tank would corrode from the sand coming in contact with the outside skin? My only observation on this system is how would you go about repairing/replacing if the 55 or 275 would rust. I guess that if the 275 would rust there would be no harm, no foul due to the surrounding stone/block/or brick to hold the sand. you would never be aware of it. But the 55 would worry me. Do they make a stainless steel 55 ???

  8. #28
    LHBA Member rreidnauer's Avatar
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    Masonry heaters

    Yea, it's quite possible for it to rust out eventually. Though, corrosion needs moisture, and if you loaded it with dry sand to start with, and subsequent heatings to well over boiling temperatures, it's going to stay dry. If you'd be really worried, just heat it up good and hot, and plugged the bungs in the top once any noticable steam has vented off.

    I'd say there's a better chance of rusting from within the combustion chamber during the off season. That can be controlled with a can of Pam cooking spray at the end of the heating season. Burning good seasoned wood and NOT burning trash in it will extend it's life as well. The heaviest 55 gallon drum I know of is only 16 gauge steel. Oil tanks are usually 12 and 10 gauge steel, and will easily out survive a 16 gauge combustion chamber.

    They do, in fact, make stainless steel drums, though they cost 10 times that of a steel one. And, I can't weld stainless.

    Besides, If it does rust through, it doesn't cost me much. (except labor) I figure I can make one from a salvaged drum and tank. I figure the most expensive parts would be the stovepipe and loading door. Total cost? Maybe $200. With some care, there's no reason you can't get years of reliable service from one before failing.

  9. #29
    LHBA Member StressMan79's Avatar
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    the government's bringin us down

    rreidnauer's idea for thermal mass using a two tanked system is a good one... However, in WA state (and in the US in general) they have some laws that make it very hard to build your own anything... http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hohmade.htm

    However, I am planning on making a similar design anyway using some basic thermodynamics, possibly an O2 sensor and a couple of thermocouples hooked up to my laptop through telephone (maybe CAT-5) wire. The sensors will run a feedback loop that will automatically open and close the dampers based on several things (the desired temp in the house, the rate of change of temp in the house, the temp of the sand in the outer tank, etc).

    Ok, so maybe I'm getting ahead of myself... all of these sensors. Can anyone think of a simple way of regulating the O2 input automatically without
    1) manual adjustment
    2) electronics that have a tendency to break?

    If I can't do it the simple way, I'll just do it with redundant electronics.

    In short, I am convinced that thermal mass is the way to go. Further, with secondary firing, this stove can be extremely efficient and long burning. I am willing to make provisions in my home for it, and build it later (albeit probably with a smaller firebox--55gal would heat a small commune--especially in WA), and take my risks with the man.

  10. #30
    LHBA Member StressMan79's Avatar
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    Masonry heaters

    by the way, has anyone ever done any steam cogeneration with something like this? I asked the folks at seton about it, they say it will only make power when you have a heat demand--i.e. winter. I think you could make power even when you don't have a heat demand with this kind of system.

    You would just put the water coils around the firebox and run them to a steam engine... running a generator. If your firebox puts out 50kBTU/hr, that corresponds to 14.6kW, or 19.6hp. You couldn't get all of this in the form of electricity, but say 25% overall efficiency wouldn't be unreasonable.

    3.6 kW might be OK run a very hot fire a couple times/week and you can charge your batteries for the rest of the time--or to run high load implements like power tools for short periods of time. Due to the huge thermal mass, the heat would't dissipate immediately, and your house wouldn't get too hot. However, I would recommend a nice upflow to a large opening skylight for summer use.

    Anyway, this would work best in the winter, as you could run it all the time (or whenever you needed power) alongside your heat needs...good for when the skies get dark and the solar isn't putting out much.

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