Masonry heaters

**bnlitton** · 02-13-2006, 12:24 PM

I know this is quite an old post .. but I'm writing this in the hopes that someone will look back on it and maybe see my question. Would it be possible to incorporate a 'water heater'(a water tank) into a masonry heater? Any thoughts our suggestions on this?

Brandt Litton

**gregorama** · 02-13-2006, 08:39 PM

Yes, I have seen them designed and used on the web; sorry, I can't remember where; it's been over a year since I found it. Stainless steel coils, thermosyphon into a tank, then a heat exchanger inside to head DHW and/or water for radiant heat. It wasn't too hard to find, as I recall..

greg

**bnlitton** · 02-14-2006, 10:51 AM

Thanks! Awesome! I'll do some searching on that. If anybody has any other ideas or leads on this, input is sure welcome! Thx Greg!

Brandt

**Klip** · 02-17-2006, 07:12 AM

I've been interested in heaters for about 10 years now. I built one in my home last winter and am absolutely enjoying it this year. I used a design mentioned in the old posts above, from Maine Wood Heat for a Finnish contraflow design.

My only regret is I did not incorporate domestic hot water. It can be done very simply. My natural gas bill has dropped at least 66% this year and I think with free hot water I'd be paying even less.

Masonry heater expert Norbert Senf has the best info on this and almost anything else heater related.

Try- http://mha-net.org/msb/html/hotwater.htm

The most simple plan uses a basic principle of phyics called a "
thermosyphon". It uses a simple 1/2" stainless steel "U" in the rear of the firebox. The water in the loop is heated and rises exactly as hot air rises (fluid dynamics). If you can place a storage tank above the heater, no pumps or pressure is needed. The temperature difference alone cycles the warm water up into the storage tank. This storage tank preheats your hot water before any other appliance. It's a very simple and elegant solution. No pumps or power needed.

Maine Wood Heat also sells a more radiator type heat exchanger for hot water that works on the same principles.

Of course, you can also use pumps to push the water through the heater if the storage tank is not above the heater. This requires careful design of the pump system. During a heater burn, water MUST run through the coil exchanger. If the water doesn't circulate through the coil, it will turn overheat to steam and expand causing a dangerous result. So pump systems may need a battery backup so you can burn during a power outage.

I talked with the MHA president Jerry Frisch about DHW. He is a real believer. He lives in Washington state and said he provides 100% of his DHW as he heats his house with one of his custom built heaters. he mentioned a story to me where his hot water heater's pilot light was out all winter and he didn't notice until the spring when he stopped buring his heater.

**bnlitton** · 02-27-2006, 10:49 AM

Great info!
I have another question for you.
We may be looking to build in an area of the city where they don't allow you to burn in fireplaces... yeah, I know ... It's not where I'd normally build, either. But, because of the incredible deal on the lot and the great resellable/desireable area, we are considering it. I still like the idea of the masonry heaters, though.
Would it be possible to make a 'masonry propane heater'? or something other than wood? Would it even be worth it? Could you heat up the mass of the heater with another heat source other than wood? - without getting too expensive.. I've just only seen wood-fired masonry heaters...
Thanks for your help guys! (-still no decisions made ... just wanting to learn and collect info!-) :)

Brandt

**rreidnauer** · 02-27-2006, 11:03 AM

That actually sounds like a very interesting twist on this type of heater. If you can match the BTU's to a load of wood, I see no reason why it's wouldn't work. Automatic and clean operation to boot.

**Klip** · 02-28-2006, 05:25 PM

I have not seen any gas-burning masonry heaters, personally. I know Tulikivi has an electric backup, with long resistor coils running inside the contraflow channels.

I also would suggest checking into the local building code. The Masonry Heater Assoc. formed with a primary goal of dealing with regulation issues. I know they have successfully incorporated masonry heaters into many wood-fire pollution control schemes.

The EPA currently recognizes masonry heaters as inherently clean burning (when designed, built and used correctly). Heaters are not required to be EPA certified.

Colorado, Washington, and Utah have recognized heaters as a clean burning device and exempted heaters from wood burning bans.
http://www.rmhpba.org/rocky_mountain_region_winter_bur.htm

I believe all wood burning appliances are unfortunately currently banned in San Francisco. That's the only US spot I know currently.

Not trying to discourage you from looking into alternative fuels for heaters, just hopeful that local authorities haven't made an uninformed decision. You may be able to find more information for your new urban home location burning regulations talking to the local building inspector.

Klip

**clairenj** · 02-28-2006, 07:12 PM

Is anyone on the forum now who can give me a pointer about a propane gas boiler not firing? We just got here to the house and the neighbor called and said she smelled propane. I now smell it slightly inside so we hit the kill switch, My plumber who installed it is not answering, the gas company has no emergency nightime # go figure and I don't want to call the firedepartment just yet. It is 11 pm EST. thanks anyone?

**gregorama** · 03-01-2006, 04:58 AM

call 911 and tell them you smell gas; the gas company WILL come out.

**dbtoo** · 03-16-2006, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by clairenj

Is anyone on the forum now who can give me a pointer about a propane gas boiler not firing?

Clairenj - what was wrong with your propane boiler?
I have problems with a servel refrigerator not burning properly, and my propane heater will occasionally blow out when there are very high winds. (Does the nj stand for New Joisy?)