Looking for help!

[Remodlrj]

Hi, my name is Jay and I am seeking some answers on a problem my daughter has encountered on a log home she purchased. The home has some rather severe foundation issues that need to be addressed. Another problem that was brought to her attention was that her logs were assembled with a system that employed some sort of springs that aligned the logs vertically and also kept tension on them from sill to top plate. She was warned that removing the sill without securing the " springs " could result in destabilizing the logs above. I am a builder that has no experience with log homes ( I assume this is some sort of a kit ) so I am trying to find any validity to this claim so that I can advise her how to proceed and be able to help her when I visit her in a few months. Any information will be more than I have now and deeply appreciated.

[donjuedo]

I know I can't be of any help, but I think pictures would help others to comment.

[allen84]

Where is it located? Sounds like a can of worms. Sell it while the market is still good.

[rreidnauer]

Temporary bracing of the wall logs could be done with vertical wales inside and out. I'm assuming that it is a chinkless coped design, so to tie inner and outer wales together without introducing holes in the logs, you'd have to take advantage of window openings, then to tie tops together going over top of top course, under the bottom course. 4x4s or 2x6s would probably be sufficient to maintain stability of the wall logs.
Not sure what you intend from here. You planning on jacking up the structure to perform foundation repairs?

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[rocklock]

Some how this should be quoted as what not to do...

I am really sorry about your daughters problems and I have no advice other than insuring overhangs and drainage get water away from the house.

But I built and stacked my own log home. I know how incredibly heavy logs are, and why anyone would have springs as a securing devise is beyond my comprehension.

best of luck

[loghousenut]

First question is how long has she had the house?

Yeah, whatever is going on with those springs is something to figure out. This ain't the way it's done here in LHBAland.

What are the foundation issues. Can it be hydrojacked or is it falling apart?

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[Remodlrj]

She bought the house last fall and it has been a nightmare for her. The cellar walls started crumbling over the winter. The house itself so far seems to be stable. The foundation is not. The idea of the "springs " are what is puzzling. I can't seem to understand the concept, because they would have to be fairly heavy to be effective. The person who made the comment didn't know who the manufacture was. Has anybody else heard of a system like this? We would just like to do some research before attempting repairs. The foundation work will have the to be quite extensive. It seems as if the bottom log would have to be anchored to the foundation with some sort of mechanical fastener ie: anchor bolt. So where does the spring anchor? Some sort of washer type device but then how do you thread a spring of any type through the remaining logs. She doesn't have any building knowledge herself and the home inspector apparently looked the other way on quite a few issues. The house can be lifted because the slab is in good shape she says, but I would still like to have some insight before I demo anything.

[Remodlrj]

A few questions I didn't answer - the house is in Anchorage, not sure if I can do the repairs without a great expense in tools or time to get mine there. It is a chinkless coped design. It can be hydrojacked but if I am not doing it, I want the builder to have as much information as possible so as not to compound her problems.

[loghousenut]

What has her lawyer suggested?

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[rreidnauer]

The springs make sense for a cope kit home. There are full length vertical tie rods within the walls. The springs are there to take up for inevitable log shrinkage, and keep the joints all tightly fitted together as the structure settles during that shrinking.
It will be challenging to raise the structure. You didn't mention dimensions, but I'm assuming it is not over 40 feet in either dimension. To avoid wale supports, you could, one at a time, slack off a nut on the spring loaded vertical tie rods, break out some of the foundation at the tie rod, then weld a stop to the tie rod at the underside of the bottom log. You could either cut the tie rod from the foundation, or break out more of the foundation to expose it. Then tighten the nut again and repeat.
You probably want to do this with lifting cribbing in place, as I don't know how many tie rods there are, and how much of the foundation will have to be compromised to get to them.
The cribbing would be four cross layered boxes of 6x6 or railroad ties arranged in the basement, where then two holes are made in the foundation to install two I-beams that will run the length of the basement and rest on the cribbing. Several perpendicular I-beams would be installed across the top of the two previously inserted ones. At the walls, a piece of heavy angle would need to be fitted under the bottom logs to provide support, and it would rest on the I-beams. The two initially installed I-beams on the cribbing would then be jacked up to transfer the weight of the structure from the foundation to the cribbing. The foundation could then be repaired or replaced. The new foundation would have window openings where the long I-beams are, to allow the extraction of them after the foundation is restored.
If the structure is only single story and you don't require to actually raise the structure any, you might be able to reduce the intensity of all this by supporting from the first floor instead, if it's well tied to the walls. You'd stud out some temporary walls in the basement, installing diagonal braces both to support in and out, but also crossing the face of the wall to prevent studs bowing or racking. This method typically involves a handful of jacks to push up a little on the floor, while the temporary wall is built, so when the jacks are removed, the temporary wall will be actually carrying weight of the structure. These temporary walls would be built as close to the foundation wall without being in the way of reconstructing the foundation.

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[loghousenut]

Rod, you are the most eloquently industrious hermit I have ever known. We need to have a big ole pealing party at your house.

[mudflap]

Rod, you are the most eloquently industrious hermit I have ever known. We need to have a big ole pealing party at your house.

yes.

he probably doesn't want SYP, but if someone has a truck, I can find enough neighbors with trees to load it up. sheesh. won't leave me alone with the "you want any more logs?"

[rreidnauer]

Rod, you are the most eloquently industrious hermit I have ever known. We need to have a big ole pealing party at your house.

These are the kinds of problem solving challenges that I really like digging into. I'm the guy my company sends, when nobody else can resolve an issue.

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[panderson03]

good man to have around, Rod. glad you're here

[Remodlrj]

I had only mentioned foundation walls in my previous posts, not type of walls. The walls, as you might have guessed are concrete block. So does that mean that the rods are anchored into a bonding top course and then extend upwards. Then I would assume, perhaps wrongly, that the rods are threaded rods that are extended with coupling nuts every few courses so that the stacking of the logs would be less tedious. Then there is some sort flitting with the "spring " or tension ing device in the top plate log. So would I have to access the nut on the top plate between joists? I am hoping to get her to provide some better information from photos, etc. But that won't happen until next week as she is out of town right now. Regardless, are the spring systems common with the these type of kits? And are there typically any 'rules of thumb' spacing requirements or suggestions? If they are not typical systems, it might help me track down the manufacturer.

To answer another question, the legal process is very tedious and my intentions are to avoid at the very least, the chance for any catastrophic failure.

Once again, thank you for your responses to this thread. I will keep trying to get more information from her in order to further work through this problem. Thank you!

[Remodlrj]

I have to agree whole heartedly to that statement. I had a long career in remodeling taking on the jobs that no one else would even consider. There are a lot of lessons to be learned about structures and what could be done to them rather than what should have been done. The one thing I learned is that almost anything can be fixed with the right applications of time and money. Someone who has been out there and has the experience and patience to think things through and is willing to share that knowledge is a very valuable asset.

[allen84]

I don't know any more or less about kit homes than most everyone else on here but I'm trying to wrap my head around whatever this "spring" device is... I wonder if they used some type of helicoil in the logs, as to be able to thru bolt the next layer of logs down. And yes, it should be anchored to the block wall one way or another. Another component of many kits, that I don't believe has been mentioned yet, is screw jacks.

[rreidnauer]

I believe your understanding of the tie system is likely correct Remodlrj. I don't know whether it is a common practice with kithomes however.
Depending on how the structure is built, there may be no screw jacks. (which would be found under vertical supports that would be supporting ridge beams, purlins, or girders) My guess is, you won't find any, because they already went to the trouble of making a maintenance free self tightening system for the wall logs.

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[Remodlrj]

The problems my daughter has is with the foundation which was apparently very poorly designed and executed and imho fraudulently hidden from a naive first home buyer. I don't know where this is heading but I sincerely appreciate this forums knowledge and intentionally respectful dealings with someone with limited knowledge with log homes. When I can acquire more information or insight into this debacle I'll get back to you all. In the meantime, thank you!

[dvb]

Found this article that may explain what they did.
https://www.loghome.com/articles/log...ing-solutions1

[rreidnauer]

I gotta try to remember to take a picture of a place about an hour north of me, that they are building a new foundation under. It's up on cribbing and the ground has been graded around it. I'll be driving past it later this evening again.

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[rreidnauer]

There we go. Appears that the footer has been poured. I would have liked to gotten more detailed photos, but nobody around to ask permission to do so.

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[loghousenut]

I did that on two different stick houses when I was a fresh your lad.

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