reality check

[Darin]

I've not taken the class yet and we plan to in Feb, but I need to have you guys tell me if I'm being unrealistic here. The plan is to build next year. We have an idea of what we want to build but suspect that will change after the class. I've read on blogs that the logs need to be seasoned for several months before assembly. Is this the case? If so I may have to come up with plan B.

There is so much we don't know . . .

[thoner7]

there is no seasoning required with this system

[blane]

Green is no problem with LHBA method. Other methods have to season out. Building by myself with my wife and son using B&t took me 4 years though. To do it in one year would have meant doing it full time.

[StressMan79]

Dunno which blogs you have been reading, but if you build a notched style, you better season for years.

Good luck getting done in one season.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Forum Runner

[loghousenut]

Ditto all of the above. Do you really care about your plan or is it just a plan? It's most likely a plan that was made whilst thinking about a kit house and a 30 year mortgage. If that's the case, you will learn about an amended plan when you go to class.

That may make you think that your dreams will be crushed in Vegas... True, dreams have been crushed in Vegas, but that usually has to do with bright lights and controlled substances. LHBA will most likely generate a whole new set of dreams based on things like sweat, and family, and accomplishment, and a home that you build with your own hands that your Grankids will leave to their children.

Somewhere in your family tree you'll find the last person in your lineage who paid cash for the family home. My Son is 22 and his parents are the last in his lineage... so far. He and his love are saving to pay cash for their first home. It can still be done, but not with the type of log home that you've been thinking of. Take the class and let your dreams evolve.

If I were you two and all those kids, then yes... A year would be unrealistic. In the end, the kids won't mind the wait. It is only your adult drive and enthusiasm, coupled with your fancified view of how life is leaving you behind, that makes you worried about months or years. Raise the kids and give them something to look back on.




Yeah, I know... Mighty loose words for a fat ole man with a half built pile of firewood. Just take the class.

[blane]

LHN has been the most profound encouragement for me with his words of wisdom. With 5 kids living in a 35 year old single wide for four years I might have given up a few times if it were not for him pretty much telling me to suck it up. But we pressed on and now have a paid for house that still needs some more interior doors and a few more kitchen cabinets that we are saving cash to pay for, not to mention, I am catching up on some play time with my littles before jumping back in to build mode.

This is not the modern day American dream "2 car garage and a 30 year mortgage". Its lots of hard work and a great deal of satisfaction in the end. So, think about parking a used trailer house on your lot and take as much time as you need and have something to leave the kids besides debt.

[Darin]

I'll start this repeating my closing from the first post. There is much we don't know.

Money and the debt free lifestyle aside (I don't disagree with the philosophy), why does it take so long? Is it the driving of the rebar, the chinking or what? I'm used to stick built and I as a project manager I know I can usually speed things up by adding labor. What I'm seeing is passing comments that indicate that you can't do that. Why? I'm sure we will get that answer once we take the class. If the answer is proprietary I understand, I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

[Mosseyme]

With added hired labor it can certainly speed things up. Just make sure you have help that can follow instructions and not try to do things like they did it somewhere else. It seems helps always want to tell you how so and so would do it. All depends on your own needs, your lot, your equipment, your time input, your logs, your codes, ect, ect, ect. I believe the fireman in Texas built his start to move in just about a year. The guys building two at once are moving along quite quickly, looks like an Ohio build may take about 2 years, Arizona build took a year and half to get permitted but are moving at lightening speed now, most take 2-4, some take much more. There are many builds at different stages going on currently, you get access to the good and bad from those folks on the other side. It really helps to have all these other people posting their issues and solving them. Many times someone has put out a problem and how they fixed it just in time so I don't have to ask.

[BoFuller]

I sped mine up only because the county has an 18 month period allowed. Then new permits, under new code, at new rates. I wasn't going through that again so I got help. 95% of help ends up giving you ulcers, because they think they know better. I found a one in a million that not only knows how, but runs everything by me, knowing that I'm the one who is going to be living there. I would still be stacking the 4th course if it wasn't for Scott.

[StressMan79]

9 women can't make a baby in a month.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Forum Runner

[loghousenut]

9 women... Now THAT is a classic.

One or two people trying to build a really cool stick house, without going in debt too far. And did I mention that they have never done it before, or they work full time, or that they live 3 hours away?

Me, I am just old and lazy and enjoying the process. Your mileage may vary. The LHBA thing is just not the same as most other ways of doing it. I think that's part of why I like it. You''ll probably agree.

[Mrs. Len]

My Len took the class from Skip, 30 years ago, then began logging 6 months later. It took him 2 years start to finish, from the time he began logging, to complete his first 3-story log home. He did this while averaging 60hr work weeks and got very little help, but some with the finish work. This time, Len will devote himself to building our log home (1-story with a loft). He is a very driven hardworking guy, so I don't think it will take him much longer than a year to build our home.

[blane]

You could hire it out and be living in it pretty quick. I didn't and that's why it took me so long. I did have some occasional volunteer labour but I spent many a night after working my day job by myself until after midnight and doing it all over again the next day.

[jasonfromutah]

There is certainly nothing wrong with your question(s).

Here is/are my experience(s):

My 30x30 took 4 1/2 years. Cash flow, full time teaching job, full time side business, 3 boys in High School and Middle school, finding logs, waiting on help........ were all factors.

If I had some cash saved for another build, if I had 2 full time laborers, and about 75% less work and family commitments, I could easily build a log home in less than a year.

I can assure you that stacking logs and pounding re-bar although physical, does not take that long.

There is no easy solution building a log home. However, is it worth it? It sure was/is for me. It is a great feeling to be 99% done!

[John W]

One of the members is a fireman. He worked one full 24 hour day, then had two off. He was 95% complete in a year.

[rreidnauer]

I'm confused. Takes long?

It's still faster and cheaper than a 30 year mortgage.

[blane]

He took a lot of time off and had a bunch of firemen helping him I think. Plus the man is just plain tough as nails. And a super nice guy too.

One of the members is a fireman. He worked one full 24 hour day, then had two off. He was 95% complete in a year.

[oldtrapper]

If ya want to drop coins in the labor slot, Ronnie Wiley can show ya what "speed it up" means.

The beauty of this method is that there is an application of it, just for you.

[thoner7]

One member builds the whole shell in like a week. And yes, he is for hire.

[Brook]

These are my opinions about why it takes so long to build this way.

First of all, you will in all likelihood find it hard to gather the materials. The logs are hard to find, and it is hard to find someone to haul them whole to your site. Most loggers only want to move logs that are under 16 feet long and you will need logs a little longer than your house will be. The rafters and joists are unusually large. Brackets for them if you need them have to be made to order. I have experienced many materials delays in this process.

Another reason it takes so long is that handling such large pieces is slow. Not only are they large and heavy but they are non standard. Nothing in your log house will be square, plumb or level. That means that everything must be fitted in place after being measured and cut. That sounds slow doesn't it? Well, it is. If you hire this done to speed it up, you will pay extra in money.

It is hard to get someone who has the right skills, even among builders. Probably they will not have experience shaping logs with chainsaws, chinking, or any of the many tasks involved. Of course everyone can learn on the job, including yourself. The mistakes will show when you make them, which is not an issue if that is not something that is important to you. It's not important to me. But I did have a more serious issue. I had my floor built the way it was taught in class, only to have it fall apart. Yes, there was a fix, but it again added time, money, and was significantly painful to install (physically painful). The learning curve unavoidably takes time.

I would not do this again. I lived for 12 years in a single wide trailer which was literally falling down around my head as I raised my kids. I would be pleased as punch to live in any house I made by myself. I would be damn proud in fact. There is nothing wrong with a stick built house. It is easy, quick, durable and relatively cheap.

The advertising side of LHBA emphasises that building a butt and pass log home can be done by anyone, and that it will be cheap. These claims are what got me into class and now I am half way through building my house. But now, older and wiser, I do not agree with either concept. It's not something that anyone can do, nor is it cheap. It could be done cheaply, but so could a stick built house. A log house has no inherent advantage in cheapness that I can see. The enormity of this process was not apparent to me until I was already committed.

I would recommend this class if you have your heart set on building a unique log home and you are willing to pay for that luxury with considerable amounts of time, money, backaches and sweat. If that describes you then you will really like this method and should go ahead with no qualms.

[panderson03]

I would definitely have not done it any other way than LHBA.
I don't have the skills or the patience to stick build exterior walls with just our family. but can stack logs.
we found logs not all that hard to find; just needed to do some looking. same with our hauler.
without LHBA, we would not be able to build debt free ( we're paying as we go).
without LHBA, we wouldn't be able to retire; we'd be paying off a mortgage

if we had to do it all over again, we'd definitely go the LHBA way.

Brooks right about one thing. its a lot of work, a lot of sweat, a lot of sore muscles. but all so worth it to us, as we're building our future.

best of luck to you Darin, what ever you decide.

[Brook]

You don't have patience to build an exterior wall stick style but you have patience to stack logs and chink? In terms of time and convenience, stick building is over faster and it is much easier (skills wise too). Hence its appeal for those who have "no patience". Patience is what you must have an abundance of, as well as time, (and money and muscles) if you go the LHBA way. It's possible to build debt free with lumber. I do not understand why people keep mentioning this. In terms of money I would be done spending by now if I had sent all my logs to the sawmill instead and built with the lumber that produced. I guess the "mortgage free" thing comes in to play because the process is so time consuming people do not end up spending all at once?

[Darin]

You don't have patience to build an exterior wall stick style but you have patience to stack logs and chink? In terms of time and convenience, stick building is over faster and it is much easier (skills wise too). Hence its appeal for those who have "no patience". Patience is what you must have an abundance of, as well as time, (and money and muscles) if you go the LHBA way.

Where is the cost Brook? Everyone else seems to suggest how much more economical this method is.

[panderson03]

hi there Brook.
stick builds require a lot of time and patience. throwing up logs is pretty quick
chinking is pretty quick too. I can do a row and a half in an hour. buy some pizza and beer and a lot of friends will volunteer to help
its all the perspective I guess

and frankly, at this point we have a lot more time than money

I'm sorry you're not enjoying the process, Ms Brook!

[panderson03]

Hey Darin. you can have 2 of these three .. cheap/fast/easy.... but you can't have all 3
the way we're building, its slow and cheap, not easy as we're doing most of the build ourselves. some folks hire parts out which makes it easy but not cheap.
too we spend a lot of time thinking about how we can do things the least expensive, hunting for bargains.. which of course takes more time.

[Brook]

I am enjoying it panderson, in a way. But it is not what I would have chosen if someone had explained it to me before I started, instead of me just hearing the "spin". I'll pay the costs, physical, time wise, monetarily, and be happy with my house. I just know it would have been less time and effort to go another way and I still would have felt like the queen of sheba when it was over.

Darin, as I said before, the costs are in the materials, and the labor. You are making a handcrafted thing essentially. There are market forces at work in our society that make everything handmade more costly. A log house is no exception. If you do it yourself it will take time. And make no mistake, unless you are making the barest bones house, it will cost you a lot of money. The LBHA method does not save you money. You could save money building stick frame too, by sending your logs to the sawmill, building with rough lumber, recycling materials etc.

And if you hire anyone to help, you will pay a LOT because it takes so much TIME (not square, level or plumb anywhere thus endless handfitting). I pay by the hour for help and that makes everything we do very expensive because it takes so much time to create. I do not have the physical strength to do the things I pay to have done. Nor do I want the whole process to take ten years while I pay rent in my crappy farm house (thus spending more money). So these are the realities.

I think most people on this forum are so in love with the idea of a log house that a stick frame house offends them. Well, I am not in that group. I simply wanted a house. I love the look of the log house, but now I understand why hardly anyone ever makes one. If a log house is what you want, then prepare to go those extra miles, and go for it.

BTW logs are not "thrown up", nor is it pretty quick. I do not know anyone who works for pizza.

[Darin]

I'm a project manager. We call that the triple constraint in my business. Time, Scope and Budget. You mess with one it impacts the rest.

[Brook]

If you are building with lumber, you can cut all your members at once, because you know how long they need to be. You level the foundation, you can feel pretty good that everything you build after that will be level because your lumber is standard. The things you need are readily available, the help fast and experienced. Everyone knows the drill and there are few surprises. Everything is small enough to be handled by one or two people. That kind of efficiency could hardly be improved upon.