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Thread: Experience with, and opinions of, outdoor wood boilers.

  1. #31
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    Oldtrapper:
    As you know, we have a wide variety and plenty of rocks here in the southern Black Hills.
    Would they be OK to use to build a masonry fireplace?
    You know how to build them – any guess on how long it would take trained person and a novice to build a basic masonry fireplace?
    And would you give any cost estimate for a 30 x 30 2 ½story?

  2. #32
    LHBA Member StressMan79's Avatar
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    Dakota, use an igneous rock. Stay away from limestone/sandstone. Use a granite or similar.

    Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Forum Runner

  3. #33
    There are a few kits out there for Masonry heaters and an instructional video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPqDKpmcJUI

    both could use local stones

  4. #34
    LHBA Member Little Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eduncan911 View Post
    That's exactly right: typical fireplaces sucks the air out of the room, or house, to feed the fire.

    But, I am not sure if I'd say all fireplaces are bad. There are direct-vent fireplaces that pipe outside air, aka "combustible air", into the fireplace to feed the fire so it doesn't use the room's air. It is code in some places because it helps to percent back drafts into the house with negative pressure, like a kitchen hood fan activated.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=fire...ion+air+intake



    ^- an example I was thinking of.

    They work on the same principal as direct-vent wood-stove heaters (hearths). The difference I believe is that a wood stove would radiate almost all their heat in the surrounding air, whereas a fireplace radiates heat out in front, but also into the walls.

    I'd be willing to place a small bet that with enough river rock, slate, and large logs, the amount of thermal mass in a log home could soak up that heat into the logs and river rock where it would be released long after the fire dies out.

    I've been on the fence about thus myself since my green building research where they go over the pros and cons of wood stoves and fireplaces like this. In short, a direct-vent wood stove is almost always more efficient, because you are radiating all heat into the room.

    Then, I found out about circulating fireplaces. Think of a wood stove in a wall, with a fan that draws in cool air from the bottom and forces out warm, radiate-heated out the top of the fireplace like a forced-air system does. Something like this:

    Thanks you very much for in the insight duncan, i did find this post about the outside air idea tell me what you think.

    http://www.woodheat.org/the-outdoor-...h-exposed.html

    And this one made me think that maybe a fireplace would be worth having as a main source of heating in the winter . . . .just maybe?

    http://www.texasfireframe.com/

  5. #35
    LHBA Member Little Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rckclmbr428 View Post
    My scout troop has a small 18x24 hand hewn cabin from the 1840's that had a very large stone fireplace built into one end, about a 1/3rd of the end wall is stone. It takes a while to get it heated up but once the fireplace is hot it radiates heat for a looooong time back into the cabin.
    Wow bet is it a beauty too. I would like to look at wood heat for my main heat source in winter but at the same time if i cant really get efficient heat from a fireplace then why not just do a wood burning stove. I like to try and plan ahead at least if i can, and thank you to all who have chimed in on the topic.

  6. #36
    LHBA Member Little Eagle's Avatar
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    This is a site that keeps popping up in a lot of my search's might be good to check out.

    http://www.hollowtop.com/cls_html/cls.html

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by dakota.abe View Post
    Oldtrapper:
    As you know, we have a wide variety and plenty of rocks here in the southern Black Hills.
    Would they be OK to use to build a masonry fireplace?
    You know how to build them – any guess on how long it would take trained person and a novice to build a basic masonry fireplace?
    And would you give any cost estimate for a 30 x 30 2 ½story?
    I think Elpel said he spent about 6 wks. There used to be a blog by a guy named Jared Barnhart up by Mandan, ND who had never touched a masonry project before and built his own from a Marcus Flynn design and IMO, it turned out nice. Go to the masonry heater site and you will see them built from about everything, including stucco and adobe. The core is always fire brick and the outer jacket is there to store heat and make your esthetic presentation. As many stones as there are around here, I am certain there is something workable. Used brick is a real viable option. Take a look at the masonry heater assn. gallery and drool ;-{>8 Cost estimate is pretty tough, as it depends highly on the scrounge factor. Let's talk.

  8. #38
    I want to make a comment about chimneys. I strongly advise placing as much of the chimney as possible INSIDE of the house and at a place that allows maximum height inside the room. Chimneys built outside the house have real issues with draw because when the fire is started the chimney is very cold and the cold air want to move down the flue which causes the fireplace to smoke. Further, masonry is a POOR insulator and wicks heat directly outside when it is not enclosed in the house envelope. Heated masonry offers radiant heat and close to the center of the house is most ideal on all counts, except perhaps, access to the wood pile.

    At the Masonry Heater Assn. there is a very real debate about the value of outside air being brought into the firebox. MY intuition is that it is a good thing, but there are some FAR more knowledgeable folks than I who strongly disagree and with evidence, so it might be worth looking in to the issue.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by eduncan911 View Post
    Then, I found out about circulating fireplaces. Think of a wood stove in a wall, with a fan that draws in cool air from the bottom and forces out warm, radiate-heated out the top of the fireplace like a forced-air system does. Something like this:

    Duncan, I grew up with a circulating fireplace. I don't like it. If you lose power you lose you heat source. Leave the door open for heat and you have the inefficient fireplace. Ours had the chimney on an outside wall so we'd need to stick an electric heater in it before starting to counteract downdraft. A woodstove in a properly sealed house is the way for me.
    Mike
    Tennessee

  10. #40
    LHBA Member Tom Featherstone's Avatar
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    "At the Masonry Heater Assn. there is a very real debate about the value of outside air being brought into the firebox. MY intuition is that it is a good thing, but there are some FAR more knowledgeable folks than I who strongly disagree and with evidence, so it might be worth looking in to the issue."

    Oldtrapper, I happen to agree with you. Burning any fuel needs lots of O2. It will get it from wherever it can. It will draw it in from any weak points, i.e. windows, doors, any place where it can seep in bringing in more cold air with it. Our old house in town had an old boiler in it. When we switched to a new unit with "outside" air draw there was an immediate difference in the comfort in the house. No more drafts around any windows or doors. When we put a wood stove in our trailer it also has outside air feed. The 1st fall we didn't have it hooked up right away but after we did we had the same results as in town, no drafts and way more comfortable temp wise on the inside. You can do your own smoke test in an existing building that has inside air for combustion. Go around the windows & doors when the furnace/woodstove is running with a lit cigarette, you'll see how much air is being sucked in. Smoke bombs are way to messy.... but you would get a real good idea where cold air is leaking in. I also agree that your chimney should be located on the inside to facilitate it's draft/draw. A warm chimney draws better, thus why most older homes had it located on the interior, most of the time up through the center of the house.

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