Well House Heater

[nobleknight]

01-17-07

ponyboy, anyone:

Has anyone seen of an alternative heat unit for a remote well house? I have problems with my system, when the temp drops to single digits. I have a wooden box that is insulated, but it can still get too cold at night.

I would try solar or wind power, but it has to be a contained system. It would have to work all night.

Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-05

[rreidnauer]

Well, I would definitely NOT rely on solar or wind for electric heat Tom.

It's nearly a sure thing that you'll have several cold and cloudy days, or a dead still, and cold night. It takes A LOT of battery to make heat, even for a small space. I assume you can't run electric out there for one reason or another, so that nixes a simple lightbulb under the cover. If you're not too worried, you could run a small propane flame, as long as it's close to, but not entirely airtight. It would probably run a month on a 20lb tank.

Water circulation could work too, (have a valve so you could dump it back down the well) but that could end up being a pain in the rear, not to mention put a lot more wear and tear on the pump itself.

[jeffro]

What powers your pump Tom?

[ponyboy]

Do you happen to have a large compost pile handy... :shock:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green_Home_Building/1980_May_June/Update_Mother_s_Compost_Heat_Experiments

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Alternative_Energy/1981_July_August/Compost_Heated_Water_

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Homesteading_and_Self_Reliance/1980_September_October/Update_II__Mother_s_Compost_Heater


This guy has a lot of DIY solar space heating projects you can build.

http://www.builditsolar.com/

[nobleknight]

Hey guys,

I have to use a generator to power my well pump. The nearest electric is 1300' away. The copper alone to run electric and conduit etc. is just out of the question. I like the idea of a propane flame, but what type of flame would not extinguish itself, or keep mice from enjoying the heat? The box is not airtight, but it is insulated. It has R14 walls and ceiling. The floor is gravel. My valves for servicing and filling are on the ground. I cover them with a insulated blanket as well. I'm not sure what else to do.

Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-05

[rreidnauer]

You won't require much air to keep a flame. In fact, if you run a one inch tube in to where the flame is to be, it should be plenty. If you set up a 1/4" copper line with a crimped end should work fine for a simple propane orfice. (secret tip: place a pin in the tube, and squeeze the end shut with a vise, vise grips, or hammer shut, then pull out pin for a nicely sized orfice) Just a small opening near the ground is more than enough for exhaust air, as not much air exchange is required. Screen whatever opening you have with metal window screening.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/titantornado/flame.jpg

BTW, how big an area are we talking about?

[WalkingHorseLady]

Dear Nobleknight,

You don't say what the problem is, so I'll guess it might have to do with the little skinny neck of your pressure valve freezing so your tank doesn't refill :?: :?: If this is the case here are some ideas I came up with just now, and don't :lol: because they might work :wink:

You could place a large, 18 hour "Hot Hands" (in the hunting section at Wally World) on the valve and wrap with something that would hold the heat but not cut off all the air as they need some air to keep working;

You could buy a frisbee-looking thing that you heat in the microwave for 5 minutes and use that. It is for keeping dogs warm and I got mine at Petsmart. Worked great 'till the #^$&* Jack Russell chewed it up.

You could try wrapping the valve with a pair of "electric socks" that run off batteries. Haven't used these before but might work.

Okay, go ahead and laugh. Let us know what the exact problem is. Maybe I can come up with some more solutions.

WalkingHorseLady

[jeffro]

You could dig a fairly deep hole and get some cool air flow out of the ground through a pipe. Kind of what Rod was planning to do for A/C.

Could you dig out a large hole and put the pump below the surface grade, then cover the pit with lots of insulating material, hoping that ground temp was enough to keep the pump unfrozen?

Maybe you could rig up something that the exhause gas from the generator heated, and then slowly let off the stored heat during the night?

Our Jack Russell chews up every toy too WalkingHorseLady.

Jeff

[nobleknight]

01-18-07

Rod,

I would like to post a picture from ms paint, but do not know how to get it here. I know you are a professional at paint.

Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-07

[dbtoo]

Tom, have you considered 12v heat tape with a battery recharged from solar (good luck keeping those dang methhead theives we have away from it)? I don't know off hand how many amps you may need, that determines the size/number of batteries. I have the same issue. I just bought 120v heat tape, because I think I can run it when I am not there. (After I fix my solar array to be able to track again.) I haven't hooked it up, and I haven't been up to the place to see if there is any freeze damage from the single digit weather.

We have to have an AZ LHBA meeting! How's the log peeling going?

[rreidnauer]

01-18-07

Rod,

I would like to post a picture from ms paint, but do not know how to get it here. I know you are a professional at paint.

Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-07

With the picture saved on your computer, (saved as either a .jpg or a .gif file, NOT a .bmp file) you will have to upload it to a website which allows photo hosting. I prefer www.photobucket.com (free service) Once you uploaded the picture, it will show up on the website. Beneath the picture, there is a "url" address. If you click on the address, it should automatically copy it. (a little window pops up briefly stating "copied") Then all you have to do is paste that address between "IMG" tags, and your picture should appear.

Sounds worse than it is. After you do it once, it's easy.

[nobleknight]

01-18-07

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/nobleknight/log.jpg

Wow! I am out of the tech loop. Well here is a 'rough' sketch of my well house. The object to the left is the well head. It runs underground to the well house. It makes a 'T" connection to service the cabin, pasta shop, and fill the well. It has a slopped roof for run off. It measures 43"W x71"Lx 26" H . It is insulated R14 on all sided. I still get pipe freezing. Water tank is 3000 gal. Do you think the flame idea could work with out fire damage?

Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-05

[jeffro]

I'd get rid of the insulation on the interior if you go with the flame. No sense risking your trouble of fixing it all if there was a fire. Maybe a metal box with a thermal break or insulation on the exterior if you could assure that the box would not get hot enough to ignite the insulation. Especially if your tank is plastic or fiberglass.

Jeff

[rreidnauer]

Do you think the flame idea could work with out fire damage?

Yea, I don't see a problem with it. You could have the flame housed deeper in the draft tube, (if you decided to use one) but could be harder to light. Or add a coffee can shroud, with both ends cut out. It's only a small flame, but you might want to suspend a piece of sheetmetal directly over the flame to disperse heat concentration above the flame.

You know what would be ideal? If you got an RV place nearby, go there and get a dead gas refrigerator from them. (preferably for free) Usually, these fridges are garbaged because the ammonia lines are either clogged or rusted out, but the burner assembly is just fine. Just remove the whole burner assembly, and you should have yourself one factory built, small flame heater, with ignitor, and flame height control. It might require 12 volts, depending on how fancy a unit it is, but you might get lucky on an older, totally self contained model.

You should probably monitor the temperature for a little while to see how it works out. (too little, or less likely too much, heat) Some cheap digital thermometer with a remote sensor is all you need.

[ponyboy]

Here's a small Propane Ceramic Heater. Runs 27hr on a 16.4oz bottle. You could probably get a connector and hook it up to one of the 20lb tanks.

http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=5034A729&categoryid=3000

[rreidnauer]

Good find. Those things don't work well on a small bottle, but connected to a 20lb+ tank, they will. I use to carry a small heater like that on job sites, just to try and keep my hands warm when wiring panels in the dead of winter. The problem was, the bottle was small enough that the pressure drop rate was fast enough to cool the propane further, to the point that there wasn't enough pressure to keep it going. It's a problem that wouldn't occur on a large tank.

A pound a day isn't too bad. Figure 20 days on a regular tank, and even further if Tom turns it off on warmer days. Might even be able to just cut it back and stretch it to 30 days continuous, but you'd have to be a bit careful not to back it off too far where it might extinguish itself when the pressure fluctuates. (propane pressure is directly effected by temperature)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/titantornado/propanepressure.jpg

[nobleknight]

01-18-07

I guess I can get a hose extender of sorts, and set the heater inside the well house. The tank can sit outside no problem. Nights are the real problem here. Sometimes it can reach 50F in the afternoon, and drop like a stone to 5F by morning. Turning it of during the days would also save a lot. I may make a shroud to direct the heat away from the roof.

Thanks for the input everybody. :D

Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-05

[greenthumb]

Tom,

How has that heater been working out for you?

[nobleknight]

02-11-07

As luck would have it, the temperature has not dropped below 30F. I am ready for the next drop in temp. Thanks for asking.

Tom
nobleknight
class 01-15-05

[lilbluehonda]

My neighbor. in Chiloquin Oregon utilizes a Lightbulb in his well pump house. He has the bulb in side of the box that he places over the pump.
The light bulb is connected to his solar system.
That seems to work well for him. It's great having a neighbor
that has lived off grid in the area where I will be building for over 20yrs full time that can share all his knowledge with me.

Regards, Tim Dubar